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Discussion News from Beta (may contain spoilers!)

Killiak

Artisan
Yes, but keep in mind that the new form of the tournament will still eat up a lot of troops if you push it too far AND this will greatly increase your supplies requirements.
So mind the balance for your city :)
 

C-Nymph

Scholar
well,we cannot have it all,right?the first collection of all troops will be a blast with the bear fed,but consider also this:you can have triple the bonus troops at the same time.|Keep the bear fed for a day(you need 8 food) and produce troops even without using time or supplies boosts.How many bonus troops you will get?
In my opinion: not enough that would warrant spending that many pet food xD So I would rather use time instants and supply instants, as those I have more of :)
 

Sir Derf

Mentor
Yes and no.

Yes; if you think of them as parallel running productions, and feed the bears once all queue's are done, then collect. However, this was also possible before this change. Just had to be careful with collections ;)

No; if you, like a lot of people do, use the bears to pump troops with time instants and supply instants. Since using a time instant on the Barracks queue has no influence on the Merc Camp queue.
Won't all queue's fill up faster, since they all run parallel now? Granted, you would then be feeding the bear three times more often. If I understand what we're talking about. I currently don't use a bear, so I could be completely off the zoo, er, reservation, on this one...
 

Sir Derf

Mentor
Ah, should read first. Brown bear boosts Barracks productivity.

Old style. Don't feed, train in Barracks, get X troops. Feed, train in Barracks, get X+x troops.
New style. Don't feed, train in all, get X+Y+Z troops. Feed, train in all, get X+x+Y+Z troops.

If this is the right way that the right bear operates, I don't think it makes the bear more valuable, as you are still only getting a +x boost either way.
 

DeletedUser7526

Guest
The use of time boosters has not changed in the least, time boosters always have and always will produce premium troops.

The problem is that normal production for elves now produce 33% premium troops (Merc Camp) and 66% garbage (Barracks and Training grounds), while humans produce 66%premium troops (Merc camp and Barracks) and 33% garbage (Training grounds).

Previously Humans and elves (after chapter 15) would produce 100% Premium troops, with the difference being that humans had more choice in which building to produce them.
In lower chapters of course humans always have an advantage, because they reach premium troops in the barracks much faster than elves do in the Merc Camp.
Frogs aren’t exactly the panacea at 200% opponents. I see golems do better than frogs in some setups.
 

Alcaro

Sorcerer
Ah, should read first. Brown bear boosts Barracks productivity.

Old style. Don't feed, train in Barracks, get X troops. Feed, train in Barracks, get X+x troops.
New style. Don't feed, train in all, get X+Y+Z troops. Feed, train in all, get X+x+Y+Z troops.

If this is the right way that the right bear operates, I don't think it makes the bear more valuable, as you are still only getting a +x boost either way.
Feeding the Brown bear is boosting all 3 military productivity < at 10th stage grants +50% from the basic production
brown bear.jpg

it's more about the time you need to wait for all 3 to finish the training and collect them at once. For me it's a +, too many times I collected one or another by mistake.
 
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RainbowElvira

Sorcerer
Old style. Don't feed, train in Barracks, get X troops. Feed, train in Barracks, get X+x troops.
New style. Don't feed, train in all, get X+Y+Z troops. Feed, train in all, get X+x+Y+Z troops.

Almost, it's different for the initial collection.
Old style. Train X troops in Barracks. Feed bear. Collect 1.5 X troops.
New style. Train X+Y+Z troops in all. Feed bear. Collect 1.5 X+1.5 Y+ 1.5 Z troops.
 

DeletedUser3571

Guest
For me it will depend on how they balance it with the rest of the game that matters. If they add separate lines and change nothing else it wont be to bad, but if they increase the number of troops you need then its bad.
But without changing my city to produce a lot more supplies or be prepared to use provision spells everyday i wont be able to make use of it so its not really a great benefit.
 

Heymrdiedier

Enchanter
Is it my math bad,or the bear now is more valuable,since you can have the same bonus troops but at a 1/3 of the time,since you can train simultaneously?
for me this makes its less valuable.
Before, you train xx troops in barracks, then train xx in mercenary camp, and then in training grounds, when all 3 are done, you use the brown bear and collect from all 3. Done, repeat. this maybe means you have to use your bear 1 / 2 times a week? Now after the change, you do the exact same thing but simulatinously, and use the bear, meaning you need a lot more pet food to have that bear ready every time.

Also the way i trained my xx troops in training spot 1 is like killiak suggested. Have full queue, + full hammer supply, then use time boosts to use up all your hammers in the training spot. By the time your 5 queue spots in training spot 1 is empty, you should have full hammer supply again to do the exact same thing on training spot 2, etc... This way i dont use hammer instants but only time boosts (steady supply from spire).
So when i use the brown bear like i post here, i collect about 20-25M of spent hammers worth or troops once a week. (so this is the base number of units without +% from simia and bears)

So after this change, 1 pet food means i would probably be using less hammers worth of troops each time, making it less effective, and meaning i need to use it a lot more. Of course the general result would be more units, but with higher petfood cost.

Does that make sense? I feel like i explained myself very chaoticly :p
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Frogs aren’t exactly the panacea at 200% opponents. I see golems do better than frogs in some setups.

I agree with you there and in general (I omitted this part, because it makes the argument harder to understand and it doesn´t change the picture), the Golems being the exception to the rule, they are in fact the only unit in elven barracks that are not worse (only different) than the Merc camp counter part. I used to (this inded may change with new tourneys) use Frogs more than Golems, but I have always used them both, so barracks used to produce something like 5-10% of my units. The big problem with this change is not solved by this. Elves get a tiny boost of quality productions (say 5 or 10%), while humans get a 50% boost.
 

alsael

Enchanter
Let me give an example for the bear.One pet food lasts 3h,right?
Let's say with the old system you can train 100 troops in those 3h.With the bear you will collect 150 troops.
With the new system,you can train 100+100+100=300 troops in 3h.With the bonus 450 troops.
Now in order to have those numbers with the old system,you have to feed the bear 3 times(3x150)
So,the bear is more valuable and you feed it less
 

DeletedUser8409

Guest
Let me give an example for the bear.One pet food lasts 3h,right?
Let's say with the old system you can train 100 troops in those 3h.With the bear you will collect 150 troops.
With the new system,you can train 100+100+100=300 troops in 3h.With the bonus 450 troops.
Now in order to have those numbers with the old system,you have to feed the bear 3 times(3x150)
So,the bear is more valuable and you feed it less
No you're wrong.

Firstly it lasts for 12h, but its not about how many troops you can train in those 12h. They have essentially trebled the amounts of troops you need and trebled the amount you can produce so no change right? Wrong.

You could always stockpile up your production in all 3 types of barracks, then activate the bear, then collect all 3. My training queue lasts 24h which means I can queue up 24h in my barracks, 24h in my Merc Camp, 24h in my Training Grounds. Now I have 3 days of troops trained, feed bear and collect all 3.

Now you'll only be able to stock 1 queue's worth, not 3x your queues worth before activating. So that's that element devalued by 2/3rds.

Then is the fact that you could use time instants while the bear was fed. So you use a 5h instant in your training and you get 5h worth of troops trained. Now though an instant will only speed up one of your barracks types while the others won't advance. So a 5h instant now rushes just 1:40 worth of troops not 5h worth.
 

alsael

Enchanter
You are right @randblade I mixed up the brown with the other bear,it is 12h :p
And yes you can stockpile 3d worth of troops and collect,but it's the number of troops that matter,so you have to check how many troops you will collect in 3d the old way,and how many the new way.I don't have a beta city,so I cannot.
And what if you use time instanses in all 3 buildings?
Now supplies can be a problem of course....
 

Gargon667

Mentor
You are both right :)
all the pre activation stockpile is not affected at all by new or old. Same number, in the old system it took longer to fill all 3 buildings, but the number units you get is exactly the same.
time boosts are not affected at all, you get the bonus for 5h worth of troop production (or whatever instant you use).
the production during the 12h IS affected, but how big of a percentage of total troop production that is depends on your style. It is 100% if you stockpile nothing, it is a rather small percentage in randblades example and it is pretty close to 0 in my case (i use hundreds of time boosts) 12 hours out of more than 1000 hours is not really worth talking about, but technically I agree with you alsael, there is a microscopic increase in what the brown bear produces.
I think you were also trying to relate that increase to the new tourneys? But I see no point doing that. You can´t put a number on how many more troops you need now compared to before. the only thing certain is we need more, the how many depends on a hundred different factors and has nothing to do with brown bears and troop producing buildings.
 

DeletedUser8409

Guest
Jack is there a mistake in the coin figures?

8,250 coins? As in 8.25k? Some mistake surely, that's more appropriate for a chapter IV not chapter XII event prize surely?

My chapter 14 Polar Bear (never bothered upgrading it) gives 722,500 coins by way of comparison.
 

Hekata

Summoner
Jack is there a mistake in the coin figures?

8,250 coins? As in 8.25k? Some mistake surely, that's more appropriate for a chapter IV not chapter XII event prize surely?

My chapter 14 Polar Bear (never bothered upgrading it) gives 722,500 coins by way of comparison.
From what I've seen the new version doesn't give coins at all, it gives only mana at elementals chapter, and sentient goods later on, T5+1 and T5+2.

Edit: and seeds for the Amuni chapter.
 

Pauly7

Magus
FYI, those following Elven Gems for the Autumn Zodiac event, the list of daily prizes isn't right. I'm not certain how wrong it is, but one of the best ones (for me) is not appearing in their list, which is Hazeltown (4x4 culture/pop). I think it must've been about the 5th or 6th day it showed up.
 

BlueBlou

Illusionist
This is a bear that will never get fed by me. Who needs extra kp? You either do not have enough and it will take a few days to accumulate what you need, or you are research blocked and any kp you add to a wonder will count against you in the present way of things.
 
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