New Tournament Squad Size/Catering Calculation

[Deleted User - 1759805]

Heh, Inno sure likes to confuse things Can you guys check out which version are you on? Are you already on 1.111 (this one includes calculation changes), or still on 1.110?

From what I can tell with limited data, so far all you are still on the old Beta formula. E.g. tournament calculator matches up with your expected results pretty much exactly. You need to be very careful with chapter progress value (used for M calculation), as it is very sensitive to that. Ideally, at least the first time you post, submit a screenshot of where are you at in the research, so I can double check the values.

Please also mention your race (in-game ), when reporting.

@Melianora:
- If I plug in your values in the tournament calculator, these match almost exactly (581.1 vs 583); your value of 383 corresponds to chapter 16 with 2 mandatory research items activated, and the match would be even better if the actual chapter progress is 3. Are you sure you have 2? Have you counted Advanced Scouts in chapter 16 - these should be counted for chapter 16 progress.

@RainbowElvira:
- Your numbers are off a little bit, but from what I can tell you're done with chapter 16 - is that correct? If yes, then there is one peculiar thing about that - you need to count the last 3 research items as mandatory ones (they will be mandatory for chapter 17). This is a recent change, so your M value should be 410 instead of 407. With that, and the rest of your data, the forecast is bang on (780.3 vs 18742/24=780.9)

It seems that so far there are no changes to the tournament formula, it is the same as original one on Beta (so no reductions to expansion costs).

 

[RainbowElvira]

@RainbowElvira:
- Your numbers are off a little bit, but from what I can tell you're done with chapter 16 - is that correct? If yes, then there is one peculiar thing about that - you need to count the last 3 research items as mandatory ones (they will be mandatory for chapter 17). This is a recent change, so your M value should be 410 instead of 407. With that, and the rest of your data, the forecast is bang on (780.3 vs 18742/24=780.9)

You are right, I did not count the last 3 techs. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Gargon667]

ElvenStats is usually accurate - as long as it shows that the information is current. To double check, you can load your city in ElvenArchitect (again, assuming that it is current in ES) and check total AW levels there.

Elvenstats says I have 288, my trader says I have 319.
Can´t update myself on elvenstats right now, but it was updated 2 days ago and I have not build 30 AW levels since then

 

[Deleted User - 1759805]

Elvenstats says I have 288, my trader says I have 319.
Can´t update myself on elvenstats right now, but it was updated 2 days ago and I have not build 30 AW levels since then

Ha, I bet I know what is going on. You do indeed have 319, and ElvenArchitect reports it correctly. I am pretty sure that the problem is that ElvenStats hasn't been updated for AW levels 31-35. So your L31 Flying Academy is not recognized, and it drops off from the calculation. 319-31=288.

For everyone else - be careful using AW numbers from ElvenStats if you have L31+ AWs...

 

[Gargon667]

Sorry I am late, forgot as always:
Completed 7 obligatory techs in chapter 16 (not doing anymore until next chapter comes out)
319 AW levels (according to trader)
129 expansions (all province expansions and all-1 research expansions, next premium would cost 4600 diamonds)

SS province 43 round 1: 35306 vs 75202
province 42 round 3: 36127 vs 77312
province 41 round 4: 36127 vs 77312

so at least that is easy to see

 

[Gargon667]

Ha, I bet I know what is going on. You do indeed have 319, and ElvenArchitect reports it correctly. I am pretty sure that the problem is that ElvenStats hasn't been updated for AW levels 31-35. So your L31 Flying Academy is not recognized, and it drops off from the calculation. 319-31=288.

For everyone else - be careful using AW numbers from ElvenStats if you have L31+ AWs...

Great catch MinMax This is indeed what it has to be

 

[Deleted User - 1759805]

Completed 7 obligatory techs in chapter 16 (not doing anymore until next chapter comes out)
319 AW levels (according to trader)
129 expansions (all province expansions and all-1 research expansions, next premium would cost 4600 diamonds)

Your 2 day old ElvenStats showed 124 expansions. When exactly did you place 5 more? The numbers have to be at the beginning of the tournament, not when you started to play it. Your numbers line up much more with 124 rather than 129...

 

[Deleted User - 1759805]

OK, so with very limited data so far, here are some speculations re: changes:

- Impact of regular expansions went down, but not significantly so
- Cost of premium expansions vs regular ones went down, from 75% down to ~60%
- AW impact stayed the same
- Research impact indeed went up, from 1.0042 up to something like 1.0045 (doesn't sound like much, but remember, this is a base for an exponent)

Now, a lot of that is highly speculative as there is not that much variety in data just yet. We need more, including cities with a lot of premium expansions - as well as smaller cities (low research). Based on that, conclusions may change.

 

[BlueBlou]

I have a question about the version of the game. If the latest version was released so the EN server can run with it, does that mean that only those devices linked to an England app store will get it? Does that mean that the situation can occur where your computer may be playing one version, but your mobile devices another? My app store is a US one and the latest update I can see is one of 12 Aug.

 

[DeletedUser7070]

@Melianora:
- If I plug in your values in the tournament calculator, these match almost exactly (581.1 vs 583); your value of 383 corresponds to chapter 16 with 2 mandatory research items activated, and the match would be even better if the actual chapter progress is 3. Are you sure you have 2? Have you counted Advanced Scouts in chapter 16 - these should be counted for chapter 16 progress.

You are right, its 3, not 2
Now its 583.5

 

[Deleted User - 1759805]

Actually, there is one thing that occurred to me that may impact the numbers. While we got reasonably certain that data snap times for the Spire were close to the Spire start time (so likely from Saturday evening to Sunday morning US time), I don't know how it would work with the tournaments. It is possible that there is separate data snap for the tournaments, and it lines up with the tournament start (so Tuesday or so). But it is also possible that tournament shares the same snap time as the Spire (as they share the same underlying formula). This would mean that the data used for calculation could be from Sunday.

The main hypothesis is still that the data is taken at the beginning of the tournament. But just make a note if you've made any changes during the period after Spire starts but before tournament starts.

 

[RainbowElvira]

I had 1 AW upgrade in that period.

 

[Gargon667]

Your 2 day old ElvenStats showed 124 expansions. When exactly did you place 5 more? The numbers have to be at the beginning of the tournament, not when you started to play it. Your numbers line up much more with 124 rather than 129...

I just placed them for the FA Had them all sitting in the inventory, so yes must have been after the tourney start, sorry.

 

[Deleted User - 1759805]

https://minmaxgame.com/tournament-and-spire-requirements-2020/

 

[DeletedUser5306]

That's the first time I've ever realised that you can see wonder levels in the trader!

FYI, I usually count mine manually (d'oh), but when I checked my city on Elvenstats recently I realised it was understating my wonder levels by 33, which is quite a big difference. I wouldn't rely on it for that.

Well I didn't know about the trader hover AW levels count neither, problem is when I do that it says 491 and on elvenstats it says 357... but it's been a while it says 357... If 491 is the right one... well I am doomed .......

 

[Hekata]

Well I didn't know about the trader hover AW levels count neither, problem is when I do that it says 491 and on elvenstats it says 357... but it's been a while it says 357... If 491 is the right one... well I am doomed .......

Elvenstats hasn't been updated in a while so if you have any wonders past level 30 it doesn't count them at all as it doesn't recognise them.

 

[DeletedUser5306]

Elvenstats hasn't been updated in a while so if you have any wonders past level 30 it doesn't count them at all as it doesn't recognise them.

Thanks. yes I have several past level 30 so that must be it.

 

[DeletedUser5306]

By the way, elvenarchitect is also accurate if you want to find out your AWs levels

 

[Deleted User - 2077221]

"You need to check all these parameters at the time tournament starts, even if you start playing it couple of days later. Once tournament starts, any changes in these parameters will have no impact on the current tournament."

So, any new expansions need to be laid down right after the tournament starts, then shuffle things around, then we down combat boosting buildings if we fight or culture if it'll get us to the next cutoff and we cater a lot.

Welp, changes to the way the system works means changes to how we game it.

 

[Laurelin]

@MinMax Gamer (or indeed anyone who might know this) : Is there a way to work out the number of placed Expansions other than using ElvenStats?
I haven't been able to get a response from that site for several days now, unfortunately, and I'd like to provide some Tournament stats. I can't remember how many Expansions a City starts with - is it six? If so, I can just count them manually. Many thanks in advance for any advice...