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Other New Building for Spire

Geminatrix

Soothsayer
For those of us who play spire much...

Please can we have a new building to collect bits of. Pretty sure there is a glut now of scrolls if not the other goods and there are only so many moonstone setups you can place ^^

Perhaps an Obsidian Tower where there is a different range of goods/goodies we can actually want

I like spire (thanks for the enjoyment) but we need some new stuff to want in there ...
 

Timneh

Artisan
I have to say i have not seen any evidence of a glut of scrolls, in fact i find them to be in fairly short supply. Quite often when i go to the trader and look for scrolls there are none to be had.
 

Gargon667

Illusionist
I'm not sure that we need new stuff per se, but they definitely need to find a way to solve the problem that they've created with the Spire set. I'm starting to hear about fellowships not wanting to accept members with scrolls boosts now. How long can this go on?
They did put scroll in the activation costs for those optional expansion techs instead of guest race goods in chapter 15. Did they do the same with the SS upgrades they changed now? That will eat up a bunch, hard to say how many techs have to be activated to make up for the overproduction, but it is a step in that direction....
 

Timneh

Artisan
They did put scroll in the activation costs for those optional expansion techs instead of guest race goods in chapter 15. Did they do the same with the SS upgrades they changed now? That will eat up a bunch, hard to say how many techs have to be activated to make up for the overproduction, but it is a step in that direction....
The upgrade has just taken place and a quick check shows that only 2 of the SS upgrades need scrolls. Both combined only requires 34K scrolls so that is not going to help with the glut of scrolls (which i still see no evidence of)
 

Pauly7

Immortal
The upgrade has just taken place and a quick check shows that only 2 of the SS upgrades need scrolls. Both combined only requires 34K scrolls so that is not going to help with the glut of scrolls (which i still see no evidence of)
It's interesting that you don't see an excess of scrolls, but I guess there can easily be variation from player to player if you consider that you may have 20 good trading partners in your neighbourhood and another 20 in your fellowship. I would imagine that there's quite a few people who don't have many people in either neighbourhood or FS that have a lot of Spire sets. If there were just a handful of people amongst your trading base that are the sorts of players that build 5 or more Spire sets then I think you would quickly see the trader awash with scrolls, as it is with many people.

I'm the sort of person who posts a lot of my own trades because I have a bit of OCD when it comes to keeping my goods balanced. However, I almost never have to post a trade asking for scrolls because they are always there waiting for me, usually offering me a profit. The same goes for Tree Gum, though I assume everyone sees that as the trades are universal. I count myself lucky not to have a boost in either of those two things.
 

Gargon667

Illusionist
The upgrade has just taken place and a quick check shows that only 2 of the SS upgrades need scrolls. Both combined only requires 34K scrolls so that is not going to help with the glut of scrolls (which i still see no evidence of)
I am talking about chapter 15 city expansions: First one: 800k scrolls, second one 1.6 Million scrolls, together 2.4 million scrolls.
 

Geminatrix

Soothsayer
Indeed.. those with scrolls or gum boosts will see this more.

good to know there is an ask for 1.6m scrolls ahead.. there is some hope of a reduction in stockpiles for those that get that far

but yeah ... much though i like the moonstone set, I don't have space for more than one. I guess i could just get rid of the scroll producing bits but it affects the set so...
 

RainbowElvira

Sorcerer
With the upcoming tournament changes, we will get less relics. So most likely in the future, we can't produce CCs 24/7 in our MA. Placing Moonstone Libraries with full set bonus helps tremendously with CCs.

If I'm not the only one who thinks this way, there will be quite an impact on the trading situation.
 

Geminatrix

Soothsayer
I'm not saying get rid of the moonstone library in spire but can we move on please and perhaps have another spire level that offers bits of a new building.
 

AstralSoul

Necromancer
With the upcoming tournament changes, we will get less relics. So most likely in the future, we can't produce CCs 24/7 in our MA. Placing Moonstone Libraries with full set bonus helps tremendously with CCs.

If I'm not the only one who thinks this way, there will be quite an impact on the trading situation.
Finally, someone else taking that into account... everybody is forgetting the relics. I have eight full sets and more smaller stuff... and for future in-between chapters vacation, I will bring my (so far) two extra sets in my book!
 

Pauly7

Immortal
Finally, someone else taking that into account... everybody is forgetting the relics.
No one is forgetting the relics. They've been talked about a lot of times.

I don't think there is a huge problem to worry about, though it's worth keeping an eye on. When the new tournament system started on Beta I had 50-100 of each relic. No big collection as it was a new city. Since that time I have continued crafting CCs 24/7, I've been doing about 10 tournament provinces and right now I have 200-300 of each relic. Admittedly the two things I need for CC crafting I only have just over 100 of, but point is I'm happily maintaining the stocks.
 

Hekata

Necromancer
I'm happily maintaining the stocks.
That's strange. I think it has been calculated you need 252 of each type of relics for a 24/7 production. And that's not including the relics you spend on pet food nor the double amounts of the T3 relic you need for MM spells if you make those (at least for FA).
To get 252 you need to do 6 rounds of 12 provinces if your FS gets 10 chests, If not It's 13 provinces. Most people don't have time to do the 6th round so that means 5 rounds of 14 or 15 provinces again depending on the number of chests they get. From what I understand province 15 is already a bit hard...
I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's going to be tricky for a lot of players.

Edit: Mind you we can also craft some relics, so that might become a thing too.
 
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Pauly7

Immortal
That's strange. I think it has been calculated you need 252 of each type of relics for a 24/7 production. And that's not including the relics you spend on pet food nor the double amounts of the T3 relic you need for MM spells if you make those (at least for FA).
To get 252 you need to do 6 rounds of 12 provinces if your FS gets 10 chests, If not It's 13 provinces. Most people don't have time to do the 6th round so that means 5 rounds of 14 or 15 provinces again depending on the number of chests they get. From what I understand province 15 is already a bit hard...
I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's going to be tricky for a lot of players.

Edit: Mind you we can also craft some relics, so that might become a thing too.
Don't forget relics from clearing provinces. There is a lot more of that in the earlier stages which offsets against those extra missing tournament provinces. I also craft quite a lot of them. Also, as @pompeywolf says, it's a level 2 MA which runs slower. My CCs are up above 50 though so there's some breathing room there.

I don't ever craft MMs. I only use those that I won from tournaments and NH. That's maybe 15 a week.

I'm not saying the relics are plentiful, but you can find the right balance for sure. Of course the Spire plays a big part in keeping up the CCs.

MMs are low in number, but my Beta city is much more self sufficient in not needing to do a lot of catering. I've never catered a province encounter there.
 
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Hekata

Necromancer
Ok, but you are talking about a small city and it has already been established that with the new system smaller cities will be doing ok. It's the larger cities will have a harder time. Most of them do have a LV5 MA, and, Idk about others. but at this point I only do province encounter if there is a quest asking for it. And also I produce CC 24/7 and get a good amount from the Spire and still I do often run out of them (I don't remember the last time I had 50! maybe never) because I also craft stuff 24/7.

I just think that as you progress through the game there should always be some layers of difficulty but not of the same kind. So if at lower levels you struggle to get enough relics and spells and runes and maybe coins an supplies, in higher chapters you struggle to get enough seeds and orcs and sentient goods and space for huge quest races and Kps for chapter 16... but those other things shouldn't be as much of a problem anymore. The way the game is changing, first with the addition of the spire and now the tournament changes, it seems to me they want us to always have the same problems and just add more on top of that. So basically making the game more and more difficult, and for me that's not fun.

But we'll see how it goes next week, maybe it's not as bad as we think :)
 

Pauly7

Immortal
And also I produce CC 24/7 and get a good amount from the Spire and still I do often run out of them (I don't remember the last time I had 50! maybe never) because I also craft stuff 24/7.
Sometimes I think I'm over frivolous with crafting, but I don't craft 24/7 even on my Live city... maybe I craft 2 items out of every 3 rotations, something like that, and a lot of those are the things that don't need any CCs. My CC level tends to swing between about 35 and 70. If I'm at the higher end then I'll start crafting a few luxury items like AWKPs.

We'll see how it goes, as you say. I've had the luxury of CC crafting 24/7 because there's been no reason not to. If the relics start to run dry then it will be something to think about a bit more... maybe I'd even build a second Spire Library. With a smaller city the only difference I can see is not having the ability to craft CCs nearly as fast, so I guess I've just been naturally more choosy about the things I choose to craft, but it also saves on relics. I don't feel like I'm missing out on things that I really want though, like combat buildings. To be honest it feels like even the MMMs and ELRs are disappearing now, as well as the UUUs. You clear more provinces encounters in the early chapters, but also do less tournament encounters... Swings and roundabouts.
 

m4rt1n

Mentor
The spire needs a lot less spell fragments imo, I have almost half a million of the useless things now.

I like the idea of a new unique building to collect for. Replace a lot of the spell fragment give out with a "piece" of the new building. Say 2000 fragments now would instead give 4 pieces, 1000, 2 pieces and 500 1 piece.

Make the new unique spire building need 1000 pieces to unlock for example, we all have enough things to disenchant for fragments.
 

Gargon667

Illusionist
Ok, but you are talking about a small city and it has already been established that with the new system smaller cities will be doing ok. It's the larger cities will have a harder time. Most of them do have a LV5 MA, and, Idk about others. but at this point I only do province encounter if there is a quest asking for it. And also I produce CC 24/7 and get a good amount from the Spire and still I do often run out of them (I don't remember the last time I had 50! maybe never) because I also craft stuff 24/7.
big cities that have been playing tourneys seriously so far should have tons of relics stored up already and not get into trouble. I have about 5000 of the CC relics, far more of the others.

big cities that have not been playing old tourneys much should have no trouble doing the same amount in the new tourneys, it is only more difficult if you hit them hard.

why would you stop scouting? Especially now that you can do SS upgrades without getting punished, map encounters become child´s play again.
 

Hekata

Necromancer
big cities that have been playing tourneys seriously so far should have tons of relics stored up already and not get into trouble. I have about 5000 of the CC relics, far more of the others.

big cities that have not been playing old tourneys much should have no trouble doing the same amount in the new tourneys, it is only more difficult if you hit them hard.
Well I happen to have a big city that only started to hit the tournament harder about 4 or 5 moths ago so I don't have 5k of relics, of some I don't even have 1.5k. So basically I don't have a big stash like others and I can't keep scoring big like I used to, but maybe I'm an isolated case :)


why would you stop scouting? Especially now that you can do SS upgrades without getting punished, map encounters become child´s play again.
Because I don't see the point in it. I think I have 1 expansion left (19 provinces away) and I'll get there eventually (in chapter 15 one expansion doesn't make a huge difference) and even with the now old type of tournaments I could't reach my max province. Basically the only thing that constants scouting and completing provinces does is increase my scouting time. I always have a descent number of provinces opened (10-15) for quests, but otherwise I don't scout nor complete them.