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Answered Need advice on goods vs military

Discussion in 'Questions and Help' started by Paleeshi, Sep 13, 2019 at 11:20 AM.

  1. Paleeshi

    Paleeshi Dreamer

    Hello guys,
    I've been playing for a while and I'm currently in the IV age. I feel that I might have done some mistakes along the way and I recently restarted with a different race (humans, which seem more interesting for some reason cause otherwise I would always go for Elf races).
    Either way, my major concern has been with fighting. So here is what I wanted to ask you about and share a little bit of my experience. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, we'll see...

    My general experience is that fighting costs waaay too many resources (bare in mind I'm aware of the strategies on fighting, how to pick units, etc etc both in this game and I also have a fair share of experience from other Inno games). Even in what is considered to be "easy" fights, I often lose lots of units. That mean it take hours to train new troops, I'm running often out of supplies and have to use boosts (among other things), I have to use a lot of speed-up boosts cause I just cannot produce enough troops to do more than a few fights in a row, then wait hours again to train more troops. I had to invest a lot in armories, but that still means more resources, space and time spent on training troops. In the end, it just doesn't feel worth it.

    This leads to my first question. Is it common in this game to focus on either military or good production, but not so much on both? I play Forge of empire (another Inno game) where I think fighting is much easier. However, in FoE in some worlds I focus mostly on trading. That means I do negotiate a lot instead of fighting. So my question would be, for those more experience players. Am I doing something wrong? Or does it get easier with higher ages? Now that I'm starting a new city I was thinking of going the road of a trader, meaning focusing more building goods building rather than focusing on military. What do you say?

    Edit: I currently have 4 armories (3 are lvl 9 and one is lvl 8). I also have Needles of the tempest.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019 at 11:49 AM
  2. Flame Knight

    Flame Knight Spellcaster

    Jul 3, 2019
    I think most players are both fight and trade but that is seen from a tournament point of view. Trading only is not sustainable in the long run to score good in tournaments. You can take a look at my village as I am a little higher compared to you. In all my old games I focused on trade, this time more militairy and score about 800 points higher on my average.

    If you are running out on supplies I wonder if you are even quest cycling?

    Also your size seems small still, I guess you mean fighting in provinces? There it is much easier to negotiate and go ahead and open a bunch to add more expansion quickly. In early chapters it is harder to do province fighting.
    And it would be good to skip the optional squad size upgrades to limit losses in tournaments too.

    The thing that stands out too obvious is that you got WAY to much culture dedicated space. At 30 expansions ou have very little useful space for playing in my opinion. Here is what my village looked like at 28 expansions:

    Point here is, this village was still in chapter 2!! at that time.

    I would also get rid of those t3 factories, you hardly need any, it takes too much supplies to run and should be able to trade if needed for a good price (Not the trader price!)

    Other thing to consider is to just get rid of many of your combined event buildings, culture+population as many are still from chapter 1 and 2 and just are not efficient enough to last.

    And on top of that you have a lot of 'dead space' unused space that is very valuable at all times.
    Paleeshi likes this.
  3. Paleeshi

    Paleeshi Dreamer

    Aha, I didn't know they had quest cycles here too. At least I think I know what you mean (they have same in FoE), but I just do all the quests.. (I guess those are story quests) Is it like looping quests over and over? In such case, no I don't do that yet.

    Yes, provinces are hard. The Spire of eternity is even worse! I can fight something like the first level, but with too many losses.
    Tournaments are okay, but I just can't keep up the troop training with all the fighting in provinces, spire AND tournaments... I will try to negotiate more in provinces.. Should I remove some armory then..?

    Yeah, the only reason I currently keep the event population buildings is cause I'm always short on population, so at some point those were giving more than a house...
  4. Flame Knight

    Flame Knight Spellcaster

    Jul 3, 2019
    Yes it is :) and will help out a lot with your supplie issue. Try to hit the asked requirements in one harvest.

    Goes for most of us, skip it at the point losses are happening. Don't forget that squad sizes in the Spire are enormous compared to tournaments. Loosing one squad in the Spire can mean 6 or more for the Tournament.

    Only use troops in the Tournaments

    I would not, increase your barracks, training time will go down, so compensate that with leveling and/or more armories. Try to keep it running 24/7

    That point has come and gone ;) I would choose to go to the lower end of the culture boost and use the space to grow.
    Paleeshi likes this.
  5. Paleeshi

    Paleeshi Dreamer

    Alright, thank you for your suggestions, I will try to make some adjustments. I will also add that I DID research all the optional squad size cause I thought it would make the fighting easier =/

    On a side note, how were you able to find my city? Cause I assume you are not playing on same server as I :p
  6. Flame Knight

    Flame Knight Spellcaster

    Jul 3, 2019
    Looked you up on ElvenStats and then loaded your city into ElvenArchitect ;)

    Optional squad size upgrades make your squads bigger, 3x the number on the research, making your relative squad size grow compared to the enemie in provinces.
    In Tournaments however it does make your squads bigger, but the enemie grows parralel to that. So it will never make your fights easier, only when you loose a squad the bigger size means more losses to replace. And the cost for catering grows with it. Sadly there is no way to turn it back now, just see how you are doing the next time you encounter an optional one.
    Paleeshi likes this.
  7. Julian

    Julian Spellcaster

    Mar 16, 2019
    All these suggestions are good. Another thing for you to consider is to build the Martial Monastery (or its human equivalent) when you get to it. It increases the health of your troops. I take it you don't have a fire phoenix. It wouldn't be worth crafting one. However, the brown bear in the next event will help with troop production.
    Jackal2 likes this.
  8. andy69

    andy69 Seeker

    Jun 12, 2016
    if you come to the same point as me all my tourney a/w are at max ie I have 178.372 ranking points from my a/w, witch have come doing tourneys in tourneys, I have 49.379 ranking points, and yes I was one of the player that the inno team tricked into opening all squad upgrades, with to line bigger squad makes fighting easier, but that's not true in tourney, I have had to learn how to manual fight, that helps because you will not need good, but the down side is it takes time a lot of time your health will suffer hour on pc, I can win most provinces in 8 minute with a low troop loss, and you might say do auto fight no I have tried that lose lots of troops, some fights you hold back, some you advance plus position, you put your unit, with the lay of the land, ie put a bowman behind a bush, he has first move and can not move, or an enemy that has return fire in a position, you troop has not strength to take a hit miss a turn, take out with another troop, there is so much you can learn, but after hitting my head on a brick wall, trying to get fairness with squad upgrades, I have had it with inno ps only lost two fights this year
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2019 at 9:22 AM
  9. tesla333

    tesla333 Soothsayer

    Mar 18, 2019
    I'm gonna put this bluntly because I have been in exactly the same shoes: Inno is lying. There is no chance in hell to play Elvenar as a trade/resource based player. Unless you are entirely uninterested in any kind of reasonable city advancement you are basically bludgeoned into combat. Tournaments are the single most important activities for relics, KP. Unless you invest substantial amounts of diamonds (and money) into the game, negotiating is not a feasible long term option, neither in tournaments or the Spire.

    Get used to spending space and population on military. (Which is doubly annoying because during long stretches of the game the combat system is ridiculously broken and imbalanced)
  10. Jackal2

    Jackal2 Soothsayer

    Dec 13, 2017
    The Monastery is great for helping to improve your troop health and decreasing casualties in the battlefield. Some other wonders you should consider using Needles of Tempest speeds up training time in Barracks, Bulwark trains sworddancers/axe barbarians every 3hr, Shrine of Shrooms does the same thing for archers. I have built all 4 wonders in my Fely city haven't needed to train barbarians or archers for so long. I have around 150 squads of axe barbarians.
  11. yo momma love me

    yo momma love me Sorcerer

    Jul 31, 2017
    tesla333i pretty much see this the same way as you but i have 1 fellow who manages to do pretty well for someone who doesn't fight and has a barracks that's about 8 chapters behind where she is in research. i don't know how, but she does well. she usually averages 1000 points in tournaments.
  12. Viskyar

    Viskyar Soothsayer

    Apr 10, 2018
    5 Armorys?!
    This is ridiculous. A maximum of 3 for this stage of development.
    Take more space from the provinces - 2 or 3 expansions from the provinces in more, than the requirements for opening another scout.
    To conquer provinces, I recommend the economy - pay for negotiations. It is much easier and more profitable than the path of war. This will save the army for the tournament.
    Leave the spy for eternity for now. For battles in it you will need an army in the upcoming bear and zodiac event. Save your army for the event.
    In a tournament, pay for a battle when you have three enemy colors - saving an army for more normal battles with one or two enemy colors.

    You cannot produce an army AND for battles in the provinces, AND for a tournament, AND for a spy. Absurd!

    The biggest benefit of the army is in the tournament, as they said above.
    The dragon's mother is old.
    Culture and population buildings are a double-edged sword - fewer residences, but less gold. You will feel a lack of gold. (At one point, I had 11 Dragon Mothers, I barely got rid of them, leaving me totally gold-free because of the few residences.)
    The Tome of secrets is unnecessary waste of space - a karting library does the same job but occupies 2 squares. You can build a residence and a manufactory at the vacated place and earn more KP from the tournament.
    Invest the earned KP in Golden Abyss - it will give the population.
    Aureate phoenix also waste of space. And just like yours is on the third level ...

    Open up the other two worlds of your account and play in the upcoming event for wells of wishes - in addition to resources and KP, they will give you diamonds for expansion.
  13. Flame Knight

    Flame Knight Spellcaster

    Jul 3, 2019
    I always had catering cities, I averaged 1600 points with them, I went the fighting route for the first time now and have more goods, and average 2500 points this time round with only autofight and some catering for the unwinnable fights. There is deffenitly a difference in the two playstyles, they can not do the same thing.

    Why? I had 5 armories in chapter 4 and grew to have 6 now halfway chapter 5. Contemplating a 7th.
    In my opinion I need armories to train the armies I need 24/7 and at this stage I make a maximum of 5h45m, so am still short on a 24/7 running barracks.
    FieryArien likes this.