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Moderation

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Killiak

Artisan
So you do not see the contradiction in what you have just typed? You assume that moderators have been courteous and considerate just because it's in their nature, not because people have been voicing their disagreements and issues? But than my opinion is naive.

Farewell mate...

There is no contradiction and I do not make assumptions. I have eyes that can read and I have been here a while, with a personal message archive that has become rather well stocked.

I'll break it down;
- Everybody agreed to the same rules upon joining
- Everybody is, in fact, at the whim of the moderators. Technically this is the case on every forum you will ever join.
- The mods here have, up to this point and in every post I have seen and can find, been professional, courteous and considerate. Wether that is by nature or by job requirement makes little difference. (to me, anyway)
- You can disagree with them in public posts, but the answer is always the same and the proper way is always clearly communicated.
- The only way you will get usefull answers or debate is via pm; so that makes anything else an exercise in futility.

But by all means, carry on with disagreeing through public posts like these. Personally I think your energy and eloquence would be better used in personal messages to Muf Muf or Dizzy on the subject of rules and moderation. Good luck in making the difference you are looking for.
 

DeletedUser3451

Guest
Personal messages in such matters are not the best way to proceed. Rules affect everyone, and should be commented and discussed publicly by whoever wishes to participate in such a discussion. It's not something to be discussed secretly and in private only to be challenged by others who had not the option to voice their opinion. On top of that it's not imperative for me to achieve changing of rules. Changing of how they are perceived and applied might be just enough too.

Achieving anything is good, but a discussion is appreciated no matter the outcome. Sometimes it's simply nice to communicate, even if it is only about some vague forum rules.

Ideas form in discussions, not in silence. Same goes for actions.
 

Timneh

Artisan
The only way you will get usefull answers or debate is via pm; so that makes anything else an exercise in futility.

I have to disagree with that. I have in the past sent a pm to a moderator about something they said and the response i got was zero, nothing, nada, nowt just totally ignored which in my opinion is totally unprofessional.
 

Killiak

Artisan
I have to disagree with that. I have in the past sent a pm to a moderator about something they said and the response i got was zero, nothing, nada, nowt just totally ignored which in my opinion is totally unprofessional.

Then our experiences are vastly different. Define 'in the past' though?

Also, it doesn't change the reality at hand;
Anyone who had a post deleted, changed or moved, or who wishes to discuss forum rules and/or other shenanigans is always directed to pm.
It's the only way available if anyone wants answers or to discuss. (With the mods, that is)
 

DeletedUser3451

Guest
Killiak, please, stop telling people not to talk about this in public. May be the fact that people are always directed to private messages is part of the problem? Apparently not your problem any way as you have continuously pointed out. So instead of telling people what to do - follow your own advice and suck it up, buttercup ;)
 

Killiak

Artisan
Killiak, please, stop telling people not to talk about this in public. May be the fact that people are always directed to private messages is part of the problem? Apparently not your problem any way as you have continuously pointed out. So instead of telling people what to do - follow your own advice and suck it up, buttercup ;)

I'm not. I am, however, telling people that it is an exercise in futility.
Feel free to discuss in public, where it will lead to nothing.
 
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Timneh

Artisan
Define 'in the past' though?

I thought that 'in the past' was self explanatory. It means in time gone by. The length of time elapsed since the situation i mentioned does not really matter as the result was still that my pm was ignored. It was within the last 18 months though.
 

Lelanya

Mentor
Just to be clear folks. I titled this thread 'moderation' for a reason.
Firstly to open the possibility of holding a discussion of how Elvenar's Moderators operate, which we have been doing.

But there is another meaning, and that is to mitigate extremes in viewpoints. So in my opinion, and I did launch this thread, nothing so far has been off topic. However could we try and respect Angel's boundaries, please and thanks
 

DeletedUser3451

Guest
that will be my last post on the subject for now. i want to make it clear, that i have nothing personal against anyone participating here, and everything i have said is my opinion in general on the matter and it's aspects rather than an opinion on any of the participants and their personality.

however, i do not get why people are trying to discourage such a discussion. if anyone should discourage it should be mods or community managers. i'm glad Lizzie participated in the past, also that Muf-Muf showed up, however i dislike the fact that they remain silent now. because their point of view on the matter is relevant and it is not stated in the rules, as people might think. and i believe they are capable enough to convey their own thoughts and ideas/decisions on this themselves, and not through anyone else.

this forum is half dead. it doesn't get the attention it should get by players an the constant reminder for its existence through in-game notifications is clear proof of it. so instead of trying to keep it as it is, we should all may be focus on ideas on how to improve that. discussing moderation is part of that imho. because even if something is deemed to be working, it doesn't mean it cannot be improved.

and yes, sure the number of posts rises, the number of thread rises, and the number of newly registered users rises. most of those users though come only for the forum events whenever there are diamonds to be won. most of the new threads are result of split ones because of offtopic. statistically it may look perfect, but it isn't really. and the idea "if something works do not change it" is pretty flawed one. we would have still be messaging through stone tablets if it wasn't.

cheers!
 

DeletedUser7733

Guest
I don’t think that this forum has to be heavily moderated but there should be some consistency and predictability in it. Sometimes, fixing one problem can prevent similar problems from happening. All this forum needs is to show that it is a helpful and welcoming environment where anyone is free to share their thoughts about the game. If there are too many dramas, not many people will join in or stay as not many people enjoy being attacked.

Also, it’s not moderators job to create the activity in a forum, they just monitor the activity. They also don’t have every information that we need and sometimes a speculation created by a discussion is better than nothing. In a well running forum, there’s no need for many moderators.

Developers will always be very careful what they will disclose so they don’t spoil the game by giving away too much. But I believe that there shouldn’t be any promises and as much as developers and players hope that they can predict the future, unfortunately, nobody can.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
It's a tough job to be a moderator on an international forum, I did it for almost 10 years on another game site, and at times it can be a very difficult balancing act between allowing some things to continue and not others.
In my experience we had a section on the forum with post count switched off where off topic posts could be moved to and allowed to continue as "friendly" chatty discussions keeping the main game threads free and clear for the many users who just browse for info and to encourage them to post.
I do think that the staff here do a good job and remember they are unpaid volunteers like I was on another game site and take a lot of flack sometimes so I do say thank you to them for keeping the forum running, as without them, no doubt the forum would close as it has done on other sites I visit.

I had something removed from a post the other day which was purely a point of view thing, which was not argumentative and it wasn't attacking anyone. I don't think the mods have a right to remove an opion that hasn't caused any problems to anyone and is a friendly subjective idea but clearly they do that.
 

Deleted User - 341074

Guest
FWIW these forums are much more heavily moderated than the US or Beta ones, and I think they suffer a little for it.

Often a subject only has a few possible points that can be made, and then it will spin off into a new but related topic. If a mod immediately jumps on it and either deletes posts or spilts the conversation, then the flow can be lost and the discussion dies.

A good example is the sorting of trades thread. A few posts on filters which are 100% related were removed, and the thread died.
I'd like to see just about the opposite being done:
  • Merge threads on similar topics.
  • Sticky common topics
  • Edit original posts in sticky/pinned threads with a summary of the discussion thus far once there are too many posts to reasonably read through.(This could be done by the OP or a mod)

Just a quick glance shows a half-dozen threads that would be better off under a single topic "trader overhaul", and would encourage better discussion. Fractured ideas rarely go anywhere, and have even less chance when they aren't allowed to expand.
 
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DeletedUser7733

Guest
FWIW these forums are much more heavily moderated than the US or Beta ones, and I think they suffer a little for it.

Often a subject only has a few possible points that can be made, and then it will spin off into a new but related topic. If a mod immediately jumps on it and either deletes posts or spilts the conversation, then the flow can be lost and the discussion dies.

A good example is the sorting of trades thread. A few posts on filters which are 100% related were removed, and the thread died.
I'd like to see just about the opposite being done:
  • Merge threads on similar topics.
  • Sticky common topics
  • Edit original posts in sticky/pinned threads with a summary of the discussion thus far once there are too many posts to reasonably read through.(This could be done by the OP or a mod)

Just a quick glance shows a half-dozen threads that would be better off under a single topic "trader overhaul", and would encourage better discussion. Fractured ideas rarely go anywhere, and have even less chance when they aren't allowed to expand.

Sorting trades thread is a very good example what can happen if you allow too many off topic posts. It only took an hour for the thread to become all about filters. Filters have been discussed many times and it's a very popular topic. If we let them be, the few posts that relate to sorting trades would get lost.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Sorting trades thread is a very good example what can happen if you allow too many off topic posts. It only took an hour for the thread to become all about filters. Filters have been discussed many times and it's a very popular topic. If we let them be, the few posts that relate to sorting trades would get lost.

We're all well aware of why moderation occurs and this example doesn't mean the mods here aren't too heavy handed in other threads. As I mentioned above something I wrote, which was related to the thread and was a harmless subjective optionion was removed. What about freedom of speech! They had no right to censor me.
 

Deleted User - 341074

Guest
What about freedom of speech! They had no right to censor me.
I think you need to google "freedom of speech" it doesn't mean what you think it means.
TL;DR it means the government won't jail you for saying bad things about it.(very basically)
On a privately run forum you have exactly 0 rights, and the owner can delete or edit absolutely anything.
That said, I don't know which specific thing you posted so I dont know if it was harmless.
Sorting trades thread is a very good example what can happen if you allow too many off topic posts.
Perhaps. Or perhaps there was a better way.
I still think that a pinned thread on overhauling the trader would gather ideas in one place and if well moderated would breed new ideas without wasting time repeating. You said "filters have been discussed many times"...well that doesn't seem very efficient, does it?
 

DeletedUser7733

Guest
We're all well aware of why moderation occurs and this example doesn't mean the mods here aren't too heavy handed in other threads. As I mentioned above something I wrote, which was related to the thread and was a harmless subjective optionion was removed.

I'd love to help you more. As I said earlier, I believe in balance, not too much of anything. You never know we might get there. :)
 

DeletedUser3451

Guest
counting the time it will take for my now 2 posts awaiting moderation :) it might not take until the end of the week, but who knows. if only they were fast enough with this as they are with the broom...

Well, at least I now know that mods are reading the thread. They are just not allowed to moderate it. Funny.
 
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