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Moderation

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Lelanya, Jul 8, 2018.

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  1. Muf-Muf

    Muf-Muf Elvenar Team

    Joined:
    May 27, 2015
    One reason to not allow animated images is that the file size for these images can grow large very quickly, another is that we have to consider people visiting the forums through e.g. mobile connections to the forums: both in terms of content (size) to download for them, as well as loading speeds. The latter is of course also applicable to people who visit our forums through slower internet connections.

    Yet another reason is that (too) many animated images can make the forums look an 80s disco look pale in comparison. ;)

    But, as with everything in the forum rules: we have the rules to have a basis to work with. That doesn't mean we apply them to the letter. In applying the rules to the forums, we first and foremost apply common sense to these rules. What exactly the limits of how far they can bend are, we cannot say; that is partly the subjective nature of forum moderation. It very much depends on the situation/context as well.

    I hope that what I wrote still makes sense. If not, please do feel free to ask your questions so that I can explain what I mean in a bit more detail.
     
    Lisica and Lelanya like this.
  2. Lelanya

    Lelanya Summoner

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2016
    Hypothetical scenario:
    A player makes a comment or observation as a natural step in a discussion and
    Perhaps said comment is a little off the beaten track and
    Others respond to said comment in ways that are critical
    Then
    Lel responds with a well crafted response designed to minimize the sting of Responder's words while deftly turning the thread back to topic and
    Eventually Lel's comment is deleted
    What then happens to my rights? I have a right to express myself freely so long as I am respectful and on topic
    I also 'own' what I have written!
    I feel it should At Least be returned to me
     
  3. CleverAngel777

    CleverAngel777 Enchanter

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2018
    I find it quite interesting that an off topic discussion that is short lived and unimportant can cause problems. If it gets out of hand and can cause confusion because there’s a lot of “noise” in the thread and the main message gets lost, then I understand. I also use it as a good excuse not to answer questions that I don’t like. Sorry about that! :D

    What I also don’t understand why personal attacks get tolerated. I don’t think there’s many things I haven’t been accused of. It’s not relevant to the topic and nobody here got drunk with me yet to know me well enough! :D

    @Lelanya That’s great that you’re trying to defend someone, there’s a need for that. :)
     
    Lelanya likes this.
  4. Dizzy Lizzie

    Dizzy Lizzie Co-Community Manager Elvenar Team

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2017
    Please use the 'Report' button to report any rule-breaking.

    This Forum has rules including
    When a player starts a thread about a particular topic, the thread content should stay reasonably close to it. If subsequent posts start to derail it completely from its original topic, the Forum Moderation Team will remove the off-topic element to get the thread back on track. It's what Moderators do so please don't be surprised when it happens.

    If at any time, a Forum User does not understand why a moderation action has occurred, please feel free to reach out to any member of the Moderation Team who will explain the reasoning behind it.
     
  5. Lelanya

    Lelanya Summoner

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2016
    Yep and I've seen answers like that before.
    The original remark WAS on topic; a natural progression from a prior remark. At issue was other peoples response to it!
    And there IS a level censorship that infringes on free speech. So I may yet launch a thread about that (quick Lel take a pic).
    Where are my words? I want them returned, to me.
     
  6. Ikarium

    Ikarium Bard

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2017
    But Lizzie, the term "reasonably" opens the door for any number of personal views, believes, expectations, to be applied. Even you, the moderation team does not have the same criteria on what is reasonable and what is not. What you say is basically this - "Each moderator may act according to their own criteria and they will always be superior and more valid than any user's ones, because moderators enforce rules". Well, you do enforce rules, but if those rules are meaningful and helpful is actually another thing.

    Instead of simply giving generic responses here, you should at least try to be "reasonable", and since it is not obvious to us, to explain in more details what exactly should "reasonable" mean in terms of offtopic. Not only for us, users, but for the rest of the moderation team also. Give a definition to which we all should abide, instead of proclaiming superiority of moderator's views.

    With each day I get the impression that moderators see themselves as something better than the rest of us. My last ticket to support was answered without even being read first, with such a dismissive attitude, that it made me wonder...

    So really get off your high horses all, and start talking with us instead of moderating us. This usually bears more fruits.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  7. Killiak

    Killiak Necromancer

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2016
    Anybody who joined this forum has agreed to the rules, which includes that moderation is applied at the judgement of the moderators. Deal with it.
    Whinging and whining about it is hardly constructive and will not lead to anything. Moderators here can actually be messaged about issues, that in itself is already uncommon.
    Don't like it? Feel free to leave.

    Also:
    16. Conclusion
    • Freedom-of-speech rights do not extend to privately owned websites, such as this one.
     
  8. Ikarium

    Ikarium Bard

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2017
    Moderation is applied at the judgement of the moderators , but based on clear rules and definitions of what is what. privatelly own or not, every space like this one is expected to operate without damaging everyone's dignity. the only way for that to be achieved you have to work on the basis of clear and well communicated definitions in each rule. And not based on definitions like "reasonably".

    If we go with the current undefined "offtopic" concept, what both you and me have typed in those last two posts should be considered offtopic. And if we go with Lizzie's "relatively close to the topic" definition, we might or we might not be censored, but the only way to find out is after we have already posted it, when we are punished for breaking the rule, which we could not be sure if we are breaking. And if we will be censored depends on who is moderating, and what was his/hers day like, did they got sufficient attention from their significant others, how do they feel emotionally and in terms of health etc.

    No one argues that moderation should be excluded. The actual issue as always before is how it is being applied.
     
    Lelanya likes this.
  9. Ikarium

    Ikarium Bard

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2017
    It gets tolerated because this is not "safe space" where people gather to share and feel secure. Games in general are competitive and generate tension between players, which is better off defused here on forums instead of any other way. Each of us is obliged to take care of ourselves and if we believe we have been wronged and our dignity - damaged, than we could invoke moderators to defend our broken pride, in case we can't do that on our own. But to expect moderators to bash everyone just because we have a temper is "unreasonable" and may be even hurtful for it promotes the idea, that everyone else but you should be taking care of you.

    this is an offtopic too, right Lizzie?
     
  10. CleverAngel777

    CleverAngel777 Enchanter

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2018
    If my “dignity” couldn’t take it, I would not be here. What I was getting at is that discussing my personality is off topic and should be treated as such. I don’t see any connection to the game whatsoever.

    And yes, you’re right, the forum is where problems should be defused. Anger breeds more anger, solving problems and explaining why things are the way they are is much more helpful.
     
  11. Ikarium

    Ikarium Bard

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2017
    discussing anyone's personality is usually oftopic, unless it isn't the topic itself. yet nothing is more helpful in terms of stress relief, especially if someone's personality is the cause of that stress or contributes highly to it. that is speaking in general, not for you personally.

    it is unreasonable to expect people to be always on point. forum or not. it happens alot that moderators in general think a discussion to be a test - simply answering questions. but it never is. and simply because a moderator cannot think of a question the same way i do, and considers it offtopic, that doesn't always makes it so. hence the need for improved definitions of what is offtopic and how it is determined in a living discussion. not that we gonna get that though. putting their heads in the sand is their preferred mo.
     
    Alcaro and Lelanya like this.
  12. Thagdal

    Thagdal Enchanter

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    How about this, Mods keep there focus on official inno threads and player created threads put a disclaimer when creating their own thread to let people go off topic. as im sure some people dont care if their thread goes off topic as it makes for interesting debates/discussion.
    It seems having posts deleted or moved by a Mod to a new thread seems to make that topic die a quick death.
    Sure they can ask a Mod to step in if it goes completely off the rails.
     
    SoggyShorts, Lelanya and Ikarium like this.
  13. Ikarium

    Ikarium Bard

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2017
    that's actually nice idea.
     
  14. CleverAngel777

    CleverAngel777 Enchanter

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2018
    Sorry but I can't agree. Nobody's personality should be subject to scrutiny or be target of someone's stress relief. If someone gets upset just because someone doesn't agree with them while giving all reason for their opinion is their problem. Isn't it what forums are about, discussing points of view?
     
    RainbowElvira likes this.
  15. Killiak

    Killiak Necromancer

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2016
    That is also what the report button is for. A very nice multi-purpose button to direct attention to something going downhill.

    In general (so not a specific reply to you Thagdal);
    Not everything that happens in a game, or on a forum that is owned by a company, is up for debate. No matter how much some people would like it to be, just so they can write longreads about their point of view and how great their own thoughts are on the subject. Even if you do start the topic; it can just as well be ignored completely.

    Yes, you are in fact at the whims of the moderators here. The rules were defined, they are publicly accesible, and if you have a problem with them then I am sure you can write a long letter to Inno or a senior mod, so that they may review your letter and the rules at their leisure.
    In the meantime; deal with it.

    As a personal note; I had plenty of my posts deleted, edited or moved.This is a forum, it happens. Nobody's post is immune, superior or more special than anybody else's in that regard (although opinion on quality will vary, of course). Suck it up and move on buttercups.

    Cheers.
     
  16. Ikarium

    Ikarium Bard

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2017
    there are more ways to moderate than simply delete/move/close. in fact to moderate means to "mediate" and "regulate" more than it means "to keep it clean". mediation and regulation can happen in lots of ways. a simple post here and there is a lot more useful than removing posts. no one asks for immunity of any sort.

    everything in a game is available for debate from the most insignificant feature to the ways the game is published/developed/operated. whether the debate will produce any change in how things go is irrelevant. communication does not exist only to invoke changes. sometimes it is there to help you develop your way of viewing things, sometimes it is there to hep you form relations with others.

    we, who love to share our own great thoughts in long posts will not be disappointed if you ignore us. neither we will be offended by calling us buttercups. which we could do, if we so wanted.

    hence the answer to CleverAngel777 - you yourself decide if you will be offended by something or not. unless that something is mentioned in the rules ofcourse, in which case you should definitely be offended, even if you don't want to. but in general being offended is a choice who makes you accomplice in the act of offending you. especially over the internet. it takes more thinking and less reacting but it's far better to chose not to be offended than to wait for any mod to censor someone.
     
  17. CleverAngel777

    CleverAngel777 Enchanter

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2018
    That still doesn't change the fact that my personality is off topic in any discussion, including this one. Just to stay on topic of off topic. :D
     
  18. Ikarium

    Ikarium Bard

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2017
    just to be clear, you realize that something being offtopic does not mean it cannot be mentioned/discussed. because of human nature.
     
  19. Killiak

    Killiak Necromancer

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2016
    @Ikarium A very lofty perspective, but to my opinion somewhat naive.

    Once again; Inno and its representatives make the rules here, which everybody agreed to when they joined this forum. Even if some of those are (perhaps purposely) left a little vague, everybody is simply at the 'whim' of the moderators. Up to this point, they have always been professional, courteous and considerate, even when we disagree with them. I know I have... often at that too.

    The path for everyone who disagrees with either rules or a decision has already been clearly communicated. Anything else is really just an exercise in futility.

    I bid thee all a good day.
     
  20. Ikarium

    Ikarium Bard

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2017
    So you do not see the contradiction in what you have just typed? You assume that moderators have been courteous and considerate just because it's in their nature, not because people have been voicing their disagreements and issues? But than my opinion is naive.

    Farewell mate...
     

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