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Minor differences in the progress before Chapter VI.

Quixotique

Seeker
You are dismissive and saying I lack perspective.
I'm not questioning your perspective of the game as an established long term player. I'm questioning your perspective of new cities growing under the new system. You have no first hand experience - I have.
It's not simply about no spire but the larger problem of no relics, no crafting, no tournament, no events, no source of supplementary resources.
 
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Silly Bubbles

Sorcerer
@Quixotique How long have you been playing? Sorry, I can't find your city on elvenstats.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
I'm not questioning your perspective of the game from an established long term player. I'm questioning your perspective of new cities growing under the new system. You have no first hand experience - I have.
It's not simply about no spire but the larger problem of no relics, no crafting, no tournament, no events, no source of supplementary resources.
Those suplemental resources are both overestimated in the early game, and in the past never even existed and the game was fine than to.

For example relics are mainly gained from he world map, those days/few weeks you are without tournaments will gain you maybe 10 relics per week as you lack provinces, goods ect. and since they are staggered rewards now so you need 10 provinces to get back to the same relic.

It is totally possible that there is not even a bonus relic for you to gain. remember I look at a normie that enters no / crappy fellowship so no good sponsors to give them a headstart.


So now you het tournaments in chapter III, you get a research you get a quest. so where a new player playing solo never knows tournaments exist they now get aware of tournaments.
Also before they start dumping there units/goods in the tournaments they are now encouraged to spend it on the world map, where most of the relics come from. also the quest make sure the player now has a decent production of goods/units and actualy iunlocked provinces before entering tournaments.

And since they condensed the chapters requirments you mnow reach that chapter 3 superfast, also the quest reward you with the goods you need to get fairly fast paced trough chapter 1,2 ect.

This is a concept they introduced at the last rework, quest with rewards you need at the correct moment and time to keep up the pace.

These things are often overlooked, as said people look at the surface. later chapter "panic button".

It might look slow and sluggisch to you, but remember you arent new to the game, you are spoiled by having to much knowledge and being acustomed to too mcuh KP's

you do not look I need 120 kp for my normal research instead of 7 , but lok at I am used to 200kp at tournament whay does it take so long to get 7, 7 looks trivial for an experienced player.
 

Killiak

Artisan
"I have been here longer, so shut up."

This is how some posts are coming across folks. I believe we can do without that kind of arrogance, so a spot more nuance perhaps? Thanks in advance.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
I thought I was quite nuanced, i's not about who plays longer.

Nobody here has first hand experience btw. because "we" will always be tainted with the knowledge of foresight.
first hand experience is someone who never played the game before, just stumbles upon it and

But on the forums (including beta) I have seen some doom and gloom, without tournamens there is no game, and nobody would play it and whatever.

Well there was a time all that stuff was not in the game and we played just fine.
Not having access to all the part of the game in the first few weeks is not a bad thing, and it does not kill a game.

It removes complexity and makes it easier and less overwhelming for newbees.

It's like a machine. you start with a basic simple machine with 2 butons, then get one with more options and you end up with a professional one with dozens of buttons.

when you start with tyhe professional one you are a little lost, to many buttons to complicated. with all the years and options elvenar is now that professional machine. and the new star is intended for players to get trough he process of amature, advanced and professional. instead of starting with the complicated machine.
 

Quixotique

Seeker
Those suplemental resources are both overestimated in the early game, and in the past never even existed and the game was fine than to.

For example relics are mainly gained from he world map, those days/few weeks you are without tournaments will gain you maybe 10 relics per week as you lack provinces, goods ect. and since they are staggered rewards now so you need 10 provinces to get back to the same relic.

It is totally possible that there is not even a bonus relic for you to gain. remember I look at a normie that enters no / crappy fellowship so no good sponsors to give them a headstart.


So now you het tournaments in chapter III, you get a research you get a quest. so where a new player playing solo never knows tournaments exist they now get aware of tournaments.
Also before they start dumping there units/goods in the tournaments they are now encouraged to spend it on the world map, where most of the relics come from. also the quest make sure the player now has a decent production of goods/units and actualy iunlocked provinces before entering tournaments.

And since they condensed the chapters requirments you mnow reach that chapter 3 superfast, also the quest reward you with the goods you need to get fairly fast paced trough chapter 1,2 ect.

This is a concept they introduced at the last rework, quest with rewards you need at the correct moment and time to keep up the pace.

These things are often overlooked, as said people look at the surface. later chapter "panic button".

It might look slow and sluggisch to you, but remember you arent new to the game, you are spoiled by having to much knowledge and being acustomed to too mcuh KP's

you do not look I need 120 kp for my normal research instead of 7 , but lok at I am used to 200kp at tournament whay does it take so long to get 7, 7 looks trivial for an experienced player.
CW, much of what you've said here is totally incorrect.
I've run comparison cities to gauge the true cost of the changes. Let's have a look at my beta city which is using the old ch 1-5.

Beta test city (no money spent, no fs/outside assistance of any kind)
start date: 4 June
city age: 2 weeks 1 day
Current research level: 8/55 Advanced scouts for ch 3
Culture bonus: 170%
Working pop: 1958
Avail pop: 715
Tourney participation: 5 tents x 6 rounds (all fought)
Provinces cleared; 45 (overscouted & catered)
Relic boosts: T1 254%, T2 228%, T3 N/A
Total relics: 436
relic expenditure: approx 4-5 daily crafting 1 PoP and CC
MA: level 3
Event participation: Completed all quests for last event, event building fully evolved plus second base. No coin/diamonds spent.
Resources:
T1 goods: 8k, T2 goods 1200, T3 goods 450
Coin 152k, Supplies 34k
T1 manu: 3 x level 7, 4 x level 6, 2 x level 4
T2 manu: 4 x level 3, 1 x level 4
T3 manu: N/A
Buildings: 6 x various event daily buildings that will be disenchanted (giving 1120 spell frags as MA is at 50%)
KP: 268
Military: Barracks Level 4, 3 x Level 4 Armories, Training grounds Level 2, 2 x hybrid buildings giving faineant frogs, 1 x GotOS giving Orc Strats.
NOTE: No team rewards for tournaments (fellowship of 1)

My EN INT city is very new but bear with me.

Test city En international (no coin spent, no fs assistance)
start date: 13 June
city age: 3 days
Current research level: 1/3 through ch 2
Culture bonus: 100%
Working pop: 622
Avail pop: 91
Tourney participation: Locked
Provinces cleared; 14 (50/50 fought & catered)
Relic boosts: T1 86%, T2 N/A, T3 N/A
Total relics: 102
relic expenditure: approx 4-5 daily crafting 1 PoP and 1 EE
MA: level 3
Event participation: N/A
Resources:
T1 goods: 900, T2 N/A, T3 N/A
Coin 24k, Supplies 735
T1 manu: 2 x level 3, 2 x level 4
T2 manu: N/A
T3 manu: N/A
Buildings: None
KP: N/A
Military: Barracks Level 4, 1 x Level 3 Armory.

According to my calculations it will take 7 days to accrue the 219 Kp needed to unlock ch 3. 88kp will come from the 11 provinces I need to clear in order to meet the requirements for ch 3 and the remaining 131 will be collected at the max rate of 24 per day. I have serious doubts that I will have enough resources to clear 11 provinces in a week as well as upgrade various buildings as per the quest line. There isn't a cyclable questline I can lean on to generate extra supplies or coin and without supplementary resources from events I'm stuck using rubbish culture buildings (hence the very low culture bonus)

Tourney unlocks in the middle of ch 4 (not ch 3 as you said) so it will be about 3-4 weeks before I can access the rewards from that. Tournaments offer far more than 10 relics as rewards, even for tiny cities. I complete 5 tents x 6 rounds and can fight them without major losses. Here's the true cost of denying new cities access to tourneys.

Tourney rewards: 5 tents, 6 rounds
R1: 7 relics, 2 PoP, 5 kp, 1 RS fragment
R2: 8 relics, 1 EE, 5 kp, 1 RS frag, 1 RS
R3: 10 relics, 2 PoP, 3 kp, 1 RS frag, 1 RS
R4: 12 relics, 2 EE, 7 kp, 1 RS frag, 1 RS
R5: 13 relics, 1 MM, 7 kp, 1 RS frag, 1 RS
R6: 15 relics, 2 MM, 4 kp, 1 RS frag, 1 RS

Total individual rewards: 65 relics, 10 spells, 31kp, 6 RS frags, 5 RS
If I was fortunate enough to be in a 10-chest fellowship I'd also get the following team rewards:
10 chest rewards: 20 relics, 15 spells, 8 RS, 135 AWKP, 5 RR, 1 BP
Total rewards per week: 85 relics, 25 spells, 31 kp + 135 AWKP, 6 RS frags + 13 RS, 5 RR, 1 BP

You've repeatedly suggested that I'm spoilt because I've played before yet it isn't the kp that's worrying me the most - it's that massive drop in relics. I can't craft any resources but am forced to build the MA anyway, am forced to build and upgrade a set number of buildings including military buildings which keeps me poor. What's more, my projected timeline seems to indicate that I won't be entering ch 3 any faster than under the old system. So much for streamlining.

And, under the new system, the game is mind-numbingly boring. Seriously awful. Without events and tournaments each day is simply producing stuff to upgrade so you can unlock the next level of upgrading to produce stuff.
 
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Silly Bubbles

Sorcerer
When I started five years ago, it took me a while to do the tournaments and events. I also didn’t like that they made me build Magic Academy that I didn’t use till I had my production fully boosted and could spare relics as at that time the recipes had different requirements. I didn’t really play the game to the full till later as there was a lot to learn first. A lot of things have changed since then and when I started again two years ago, I had a set strategy that was completely different from the way I played when I didn’t know the game.

I think that the main purpose of the changes is to make more new players keep playing. I don’t think the changes are made to make it easier for established players to start a new city. Established players have enough experience to handle any changes to low chapters as it’s the easiest part of the game. The game needs to make money to survive and retaining new players will provide new income stream and make the game even better for us.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
When I started five years ago, it took me a while to do the tournaments and events. I also didn’t like that they made me build Magic Academy that I didn’t use till I had my production fully boosted and could spare relics as at that time the recipes had different requirements. I didn’t really play the game to the full till later as there was a lot to learn first. A lot of things have changed since then and when I started again two years ago, I had a set strategy that was completely different from the way I played when I didn’t know the game.

I think that the main purpose of the changes is to make more new players keep playing. I don’t think the changes are made to make it easier for established players to start a new city. Established players have enough experience to handle any changes to low chapters as it’s the easiest part of the game. The game needs to make money to survive and retaining new players will provide new income stream and make the game even better for us.
ty that was my exact point

CW, much of what you've said here is totally incorrect.
I've run comparison cities to gauge the true cost of the changes. Let's have a look at my beta city which is using the old ch 1-5.


Total individual rewards: 65 relics, 10 spells, 31kp, 6 RS frags, 5 RS
If I was fortunate enough to be in a 10-chest fellowship I'd also get the following team rewards:
10 chest rewards: 20 relics, 15 spells, 8 RS, 135 AWKP, 5 RR, 1 BP
Total rewards per week: 85 relics, 25 spells, 31 kp + 135 AWKP, 6 RS frags + 13 RS, 5 RR, 1 BP

You've repeatedly suggested that I'm spoilt because I've played before yet it isn't the kp that's worrying me the most - it's that massive drop in relics. I can't craft any resources but am forced to build the MA anyway, am forced to build and upgrade a set number of buildings including military buildings which keeps me poor. What's more, my projected timeline seems to indicate that I won't be entering ch 3 any faster than under the old system. So much for streamlining.

And, under the new system, the game is mind-numbingly boring. Seriously awful. Without events and tournaments each day is simply producing stuff to upgrade so you can unlock the next level of upgrading to produce stuff.
This is with the knowledge of foresight, you know how to play the game, you arent learning you arent the main target of this change.
New players are.

Also 65 relics only a fraction of that is bonus relics, compare that to the bonus relics you aquired on the world map.
also you reached this stage after only 2 weeks.

How much relics would you have aquired in the first week in the tournaments? and how many of those are bonus relics?
so when I read your summary it means you havent missed anything really untill you unlocked the tournaments.

You unlocked it very quick and fast with barely any delay.
It might be boring for you, but you arent experiencing something new, and arent figuring stuff out.
 

Quixotique

Seeker
This is with the knowledge of foresight, you know how to play the game, you arent learning you arent the main target of this change.
New players are.
I think you mean hindsight/prior knowledge, not foresight which is estimating future outcomes.

Having prior knowledge may affect my enjoyment (the process isn't novel to me anymore) but it certainly doesn't affect how fast my city grows, or whether it's an efficient city anymore because all the avenues for choice (apart from premium choices) are removed. i have to complete the same quests for the same rewards. We are discussing whether the new system has actually streamlined the early chapters, whether there is some advantage (to the player) in limiting accesses to tournaments, spire and crafting. My prior knowledge means I can more accurately compare the old and new system but my prior knowledge doesn't offer me any tools that make the process better or worse.

You have repeatedly claimed that this new system is faster and I've shown you it isn't.

How much relics would you have aquired in the first week in the tournaments? and how many of those are bonus relics?
so when I read your summary it means you havent missed anything really untill you unlocked the tournaments.

Are you really going to ignore the math that shows, clearly, that my 3 day old city is already disadvantaged and will continue to struggle compared to my 15 day old city? Both the relic count and boost percentage clearly show new city are disadvantaged.

You unlocked it very quick and fast with barely any delay.
It might be boring for you, but you arent experiencing something new, and arent figuring stuff out.
Actually, no. My 15 day old city wasn't a new experience but I've enjoyed building it even though I've built at least 5 cities before it (and don't worry, they aren't pushing accounts or farms. I get them deleted once I'm done experimenting). What made it fun was the events and tourneys, planning and strategizing my way around problems, designing efficient and attractive layouts etc. Under the new scheme there are virtually no choices left to make. I'm told how many buildings to build, when to upgrade, when to use certain resources etc.

CW, I appreciate you have a different opinion on the matter but it's not founded in experience. I think you'd really benefit from building a new city and getting a feel for the new system.
 

Laurelin

Scholar
@Quixotique : Thank you for taking the time and trouble to compare, and analyse, two early-game Cities under both old and new systems.

I myself have much [more] to say on this - mostly pre-written, but in my usual very lengthy style, so I'm still editing parts of it down somewhat.

However, for now - one of Quixotique's most significant conclusions, which really should be a far greater focus of debate at the moment, in my view, and certainly on a par with ongoing discussions about when FS/Tourney/Spire access is granted to new players, is this:

[...] it isn't the kp that's worrying me the most - it's that massive drop in relics. [...]

Yes - Relics are one of the game's fundamental elements, and this change is far more significant than it may appear. It's also certainly related to Inno's otherwise inexplicable and - in its own right - profoundly game-altering decision to suddenly, and without apparent motive or credible explanation, re-value formerly worthless Rune Shards, which are another of the game's fundamental influences, as 10-15 AWKP Instants.

On the above alone, much remains to be said; I am sure that there is a complex plan behind not only the ongoing early-Chapter and most of the previous two years' more major changes, too (2020 Tourney Formula included). As I say, I don't yet have a concise enough comprehensive explanation to post here, but in essence my view is that Inno is making, via multiple interlinked stages, a slow, carefully tested, VERY complex and long-term structural alteration to the entire game, with much further-reaching consequences in mind than only the early-game Chapters.

There is also certainly a link between these two very notable factors, too:

[...] under the new system, the game [...] Without events and tournaments each day is simply producing stuff to upgrade so you can unlock the next level of upgrading to produce stuff.

Having prior knowledge [...] doesn't affect how fast my city grows, or whether it's an efficient city anymore because all the avenues for choice (apart from premium choices) are removed. [...]

Excluding game-specific differences, most player reviews of MOST of Elvenar's competitors - including Inno's own more recent mobile releases- all feature this very same complaint - constant waiting (a very long time) to progress in the game, including/especially during its early stages, when the majority of modern mobile gamers are beginning to expect to have to pay at least some real money for a 'head start' (and Elvenar now offers a LOT of 'packages' to its starting players - far more than ever before - priced at about £10-20), even though most entirely new-to-game players ALSO [and rather paradoxically?] expect those games to be F2P as well. For all but the most patient of players, the ONLY alternative in this type of game is to pay to progress at a reasonable pace and without a tedious grind. It's a very profitable strategy used by [in my opinion, too many] 'build [something complicated to construct but essentially easy to grasp]' games which now compete within the 'Casual Strategy' genre.

Please, don't just take my word for it: evidence supporting the above contention can readily be found by reading, as I have, a good number of player reviews of Inno's more well-known new mobile offerings, Rise of Cultures and Sunrise Village - as well as their currently less well-known but even more recent release, Lost Survivors - or indeed MOST 'Casual Strategy' games. Almost ALL are built around the same model as above.

... In short, I am now as certain as anyone without insider info can be that ALL of the recent changes, and more, are both carefully designed, as part of one over-arching and long-term strategic change to the game, and also quite intentional (one thing Inno does know is its market) - and I, for one, fear for Elvenar's future, certainly in the form preferred by many of us who already play. So far, and if the ongoing early-Chapter (and other mentioned) changes are a benchmark, it seems that the game as WE play it will probably remain relatively unchanged - for us - but players who are genuinely new, when the ongoing changes (and there will be more, I think) are implemented, will begin in a very altered game.

[...] I think that the main purpose of the changes is to make more new players keep playing. [...]
I'll be called cynical for this and/or accused of sophistry, as well, but for 'playing' you really CAN read: 'paying'. Bear with me. You're right that:
[...] The game needs to make money to survive [...]
But I believe you're wrong that:
[...] retaining new players will provide new income stream and make the game even better for us. [...]

... and I say this because:

Long-term players are demanding in innovation, easily bored, quick to complain, and costly to please, and the days of a few 'whales' funding most other players are long gone. Far cheaper (and less reliant upon the whims of relatively fewer, higher-spending customers) is the ever more common 'revolving-door players' system now used by many games : start, pay a bit [£10-20 in Elvenar's case], get bored, leave, replace, repeat.

I have said elsewhere that I don't think Elvenar will very readily fit into the same mould as Inno's new - and newly designed - mobile offerings, and I hope this will also be of some help to those of us who know and like the game as it is, but Elvenar is essentially 'out of date' now, as far as Inno (and MTG) are concerned; a slow, very resource-heavy, PC/browser-friendly game aimed squarely at a core playerbase which is no longer the revenue goldmine it once was, and what we are seeing now is, I believe, an attempt to fit a square peg into a round hole. Elvenar's newer games fit that round hole perfectly, of course, but are far removed from Elvenar, as a result - and because of that they are games I'd never play.

In fact, the world of mobile gaming is rapidly departing from MOST of the old norms which PC/browser gamers have come to understand, over the years. It's not there yet, but mobile gaming is increasingly becoming comprised not so much of games as of 'products', and quality and/or longevity of the game - once both very important considerations - are no longer even important for many large gaming houses, except insofar as the game needs to be sufficiently 'shiny' (polished and graphically impressive) to attract enough interest to repay their initial investment.

This is also true (like it or not, and I don't) of the retention of long-term, satisfied players, which was once also one of any gaming company's primary aims, since they represented the future of the game AND its reputation, which itself brought in new players and ensured sequels and so on. Now it's just the marketing which talks, and games are built around nothing but that, and their financial model, from first concept onwards.

ALL else is secondary when a large corporation is designing not a new game, but a new 'product'. Profit really IS all. Pride in the quality of the game no longer applies. And even the veracity of the marketing is becoming more of a bad joke than anything; again, do watch just about any mobile phone game advert for evidence of this - Match-3 games depicted as animated RPG adventures, and vice versa, too, if it will only suck in just one more player, just for as long as they will pay that magic first X amount of money which the 'product lifecycle' requires.

And no, any and all of this doesn't make me any happier than I sound... but reality is reality, and I don't think Quixotique's analysis is flawed.
 

Silly Bubbles

Sorcerer
@Laurelin Unless we get access to their financial records it's all theories. One sure thing is that without money their won't be a game that they can be "proud" of. I wouldn't expect anyone to work for free just for our benefit, everyone has bills to pay.
 

Quixotique

Seeker
@Laurelin Unless we get access to their financial records it's all theories. One sure thing is that without money their won't be a game that they can be "proud" of. I wouldn't expect anyone to work for free just for our benefit, everyone has bills to pay.
If you look on iDavis's website you'll find a video revealing Inno's financials. Elvenar has been less profitable in recent months.
I believe the changes are designed to winnow payers from players. New players are deprived of resources then offered starter packs. This quickly sorts those willing to spend from those who aren't.
 

Silly Bubbles

Sorcerer
If you look on iDavis's website you'll find a video revealing Inno's financials. Elvenar has been less profitable in recent months.
I believe the changes are designed to winnow payers from players. New players are deprived of resources then offered starter packs. This quickly sorts those willing to spend from those who aren't.
So you do agree that they're doing it to increase their revenue rather than interfere with your game play.
Also, financials aren't the same as financial records. One is a summary of the other.
 

Laurelin

Scholar
So you do agree that they're doing it to increase their revenue rather than interfere with your game play.
I am the first to agree that my posts are often very densely worded (academic history & personal preference, plus desire for maximum clarity), but I think I've also stated that Inno's primary - if not only - motive is profit, too - whether or not curbing the Diamond-farming tiny Cities is one part of that? In fact, that's probably the one issue, of them all, on which NOBODY is divided, re the incoming (and/or preceding) changes to the game.

Where we differ, I think, is in our opinion(s) on HOW Inno intends not only to maintain but also ideally to increase revenue - including from WHICH sector of its players, and across how long a timeframe per player (long-term or as fast as possible?), amongst other related topics... and, importantly, how they're going to try to do this while the game still remains in its most lucrative phase, as it now is.

And that info - the 'lifecycle curve' of this and Inno's other games, which they themselves refer to as 'products' - I don't invent this stuff! - as well as a fair amount of detail on Elvenar's/Inno's/MTG's overall profitability, and quite a lot else which is of interest to players, too, is available by researching NOT what they say to players, either here or especially on Social Meeja, and least of all any responses they might make to Play Store and any other reviews - but by reading what they release to the gaming industry via specialist websites - it's a very worthwhile endeavour.

After the most lucrative 'peak phase' of any modern online 'social viral' game (which typically lasts 1-3 years for games of Elvenar's sub-genre, although Elvenar's particularly loyal, middle-aged-to-elderly, predominantly female, and upper-income-bracket long-term CORE playerbase (of course not every one of us matches all or even any of those qualities - but that's the game's demographic of choice, for whom it was therefore primarily designed - with more recent, non-core-design 'added extras' and a few alterations aimed at [mostly] younger and more competitive males, too), which is a very valuable if not numerically huge subset of players, plus the game's rather odd provenance - from fully PC/browser market-focused to fully mobile market-focused - and they are VERY different - do together mean that this game, in particular, may have a longer active life than most, in my opinion) - after the 'peak phase', then, there will certainly come the 'Maintenance Mode' phase, as it always does (the alternative is just 'switch off the Servers - goodbye all', and that won't happen); less than peak profit, yes, but certainly decently valuable to Inno.

For some odd reason [there are good reasons in some cases, but I don't think Inno is one of those] most players - and usually those of the type for whom that final phase will be the most comfortable and pleasant! - tend to object very strongly indeed, in an immediate and 'knee-jerk' manner, to the mere suggestion that Maintenance Mode is incoming, in the case of any game at all... and yet as I've said, it's not Elvenar's core long-termers who will, by and large, find this anything other than welcome, and those who would like to be able to buy outright many of the items which the game currently withholds via RNG-based rationing (and other methods involving the creation of artificial scarcity - they ALL do it!) will be - I'd think? - pleased to find that increasing numbers, if not eventually all, of those items will become available 'on demand' (well, via often-repeated sales, usually) for Diamonds - free in-game sources of which will still remain, or even possibly increase - and/or real money.

That's just one more or less universal symptom of Maintenance Mode, of course... another, which is of much relevance to Elvenar at present, too, is the increasing frequency of 'events' [with a small 'e', if you like] of all types (Tourneys [not Spire - that and Crafting are a core feature, existing in symbiosis], Leagues, 'actual' Events, FAs, and probably more to come... they are all 'recurring events', built upon the sub-structure of the [still F2P] base game). And THAT will always - although very slowly without paying - be playable all on its own, entirely unsupported by the myriad of 'optional extras', if one really insists! - even to the point where they overlap and one/more are ever-present - with the alteration of once-individually themed Events into a recurring series (weekly, annually, etc.) of similarly themed, and named, repeats of themselves.

In short, it all becomes very stable, predictable, calm, unhurried, and for players like me, actually preferable to its current, and far more volatile, state...! Competition-minded players, too (I'm not), will be handsomely catered for, since that is a HUGE revenue-driver. No panic required!

So - there, I've said it. Maintenance Mode - in its early stages - is visible upon the horizon. ONLY this makes sense of all of the recent changes to the game - most of which, especially when trying to correlate them with each other, otherwise seem anything from mysterious to paradoxical.

Of course there's more to add, but that's enough from me - for once, I will resist the urge to go on and on (more than I already have)...! :)
 

Silly Bubbles

Sorcerer
I am the first to agree that my posts are often very densely worded (academic history & personal preference, plus desire for maximum clarity)

I agree, I do have a problem with understanding what is actually your point as your posts seem to sidetrack to unrelated issues to the specific topic and I loose what it's actually about.

I think I've also stated that Inno's primary - if not only - motive is profit

There is no problem with this at all because they can only make profit out of a good game and better the game the more profit so the two goals are effectively the same thing.

Where we differ, I think, is in our opinion(s) on HOW Inno intends not only to maintain but also ideally to increase revenue - including from WHICH sector of its players

Sorry but I didn’t see anywhere what sector do you suggest but I might’ve got lost in the amount of information you’ve given.

NOT what they say to players, either here or especially on Social Meeja, and least of all any responses they might make to Play Store and any other reviews - but by reading what they release to the gaming industry via specialist websites - it's a very worthwhile endeavour.

I don’t really go by what they say as there’s a lot of manipulation going on, I go by what they do.

After the most lucrative 'peak phase' of any modern online 'social viral' game (which typically lasts 1-3 years for games of Elvenar's sub-genre, although Elvenar's particularly loyal, middle-aged-to-elderly, predominantly female, and upper-income-bracket long-term CORE playerbase (of course not every one of us matches all or even any of those qualities - but that's the game's demographic of choice, for whom it was therefore primarily designed - with more recent, non-core-design 'added extras' and a few alterations aimed at [mostly] younger and more competitive males, too), which is a very valuable if not numerically huge subset of players, plus the game's rather odd provenance - from fully PC/browser market-focused to fully mobile market-focused - and they are VERY different - do together mean that this game, in particular, may have a longer active life than most, in my opinion) - after the 'peak phase', then, there will certainly come the 'Maintenance Mode' phase, as it always does (the alternative is just 'switch off the Servers - goodbye all', and that won't happen); less than peak profit, yes, but certainly decently valuable to Inno.

Times are constantly changing. I don't really agree with making gender specific (or any other) distinctions as we are all same in the core as we are all human. I do agree that browser might not be as lucrative as it used to be but from my experience browser is still the best for large graphics intense games that I personally prefer and that might change as well as other devices are getting better and better. Inno's still improving browser experience so there still must be a good player base using browsers.

For some odd reason [there are good reasons in some cases, but I don't think Inno is one of those] most players - and usually those of the type for whom that final phase will be the most comfortable and pleasant! - tend to object very strongly indeed, in an immediate and 'knee-jerk' manner, to the mere suggestion that Maintenance Mode is incoming, in the case of any game at all... and yet as I've said, it's not Elvenar's core long-termers who will, by and large, find this anything other than welcome, and those who would like to be able to buy outright many of the items which the game currently withholds via RNG-based rationing (and other methods involving the creation of artificial scarcity - they ALL do it!) will be - I'd think? - pleased to find that increasing numbers, if not eventually all, of those items will become available 'on demand' (well, via often-repeated sales, usually) for Diamonds - free in-game sources of which will still remain, or even possibly increase - and/or real money.

Personally, I'll keep playing as long as they'll be adding chapters. Once they'll stop, I'll stop as there won't be anything for me to do or to aim for.

So - there, I've said it. Maintenance Mode - in its early stages - is visible upon the horizon. ONLY this makes sense of all of the recent changes to the game - most of which, especially when trying to correlate them with each other, otherwise seem anything from mysterious to paradoxical.

How long this game will last purely depends on Inno and its reaction to the market. If they have other games that make more money, they will invest in these games rather than Elvenar. I don't believe that it's out of their control whether the game has reached it's peak or not.
Also, some maintenance was long overdue as they haven't done any for a very long time.
 

SkyRider99

Necromancer
....as we are all human.
Those with an elvish persuasion may have a different viewpoint mate. :D

Personally, I'll keep playing as long as they'll be adding chapters. Once they'll stop, I'll stop as there won't be anything for me to do or to aim for.
Ultimately I guess you are right @Silly Bubbles. If Inno do the (virtually) impossible and make Ch XX harder than Ch XIX then the day of stopping may be some distance in the future. Even then I would be satisfied for some time in helping others in my FS to progress and have a bit of semi-social interaction. There is also the interminable tournaments, spires, and events. o_O

when trying to correlate them with each other, otherwise seem anything from mysterious to paradoxical.
I would even consider 'arcane'. You are on the money though @Laurelin. (That's a local expression to say you are not far from the bulls-eye)
:)
 
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