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Market value ratio highly inaccurate?

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DeletedUser1353

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Introduction

I've been thinking about this question for a while now and finally I decided to do some calculating to see how accurate these ratios are. Right now 1 elixir/magic dust/gem is valuated as 4 silk/crystal/scrolls and 16 marble/planks/steel. But how is the reality?

There are of course many factors that set the value of these materials, and I have done my best to look at some of them. Could really 100 gems be as valuable as 1600 marble?


It’s going to be quite a long post and plenty of spelling errors but try to bear with me!

I'm going to tackle this problem from the point in the game where I'm currently in, which is the early midgame with the human race. My production boosts are: Marble, Silk and Gems. I made sure to compare their values when they are on the same boost-% which for me is 279%. All my manufactories are maxed at the advanced level, which for Marble Manufactories (MM) is lvl 8, for Silk manufactories (SM) lvl 9 and last but not least Gem Manufactories (GM) lvl 8.

So how do we compare these goods? The answer is: space. How much space these manufactories takes up in your village. It is probably not the whole truth, but I think it's close to it. A lvl 8 MM takes up 2x3=6 squares right? Yes, but there's more to it than that, it needs culture, which takes up space, population which also takes up space and the tools that you use to produce the resources comes from workshops who also takes up space.

Culture Space

Let’s start by looking at culture, depending of what culture buildings you’re going to have more or less effective culture space. Let’s say there was a culture building giving 800 culture and taking up 8 squares, then it would give 80 culture/square. This means a building requiring for example 400 culture takes up 4 squares culture space. So culture space varies depending on what kind of culture buildings you’re using, in these calculations I’ll be using the Battle Monument that gives 690/12=57,5 culture/square.

Population Space

Next is population space. Population is gained from residences and I’ll be using lvl 15 residences in this post, which is the highest level pre dwarven buildings. A lvl 15 residence takes up 12 squares and gives 560 pop. giving it 560/12=46,67 pop/square, but that’s not accounting the culture space it takes up, since it takes up 158 culture we have to add this as well. 12+(158/57,5)=14,75 and a pop/square of ca 37,98.

Coin and Tools production space

Last is the space needed to produce the tools and coins needed for the goods. I was not sure how to calculate the space needed to produce the coins since you get it from helping your neighbors as well as residences… so I decided to make it the same as the space needed for tools. Now, toolspace is going to be very individual, it depends on what kind of goods you are making in the workshop, your culture bonus and the level on the workshop. In my example I will be using a lvl 15 workshop with 100% culture bonus producing only bread.

The size for a lvl 15 workshop is 12 squares, + culturespace which is 169/57,5=2,94, +populationspace which is 471/37,98=27,34. In other words a whopping 27,34 squares is needed to maintain a lvl 15 workshop (with battle monuments and lvl 15 residences). :)

But we’re not done yet with workshops, we need to calculate the space needed to produce the tools.


The workshop in this example produces 828 tools/h making it 2484 tools/3h. I want to look at the productions per 3 hours since we will compare it with the goods manufactories later.

So the production per square is then: 2484/27,34=90,85 prod(3h)/square.


Finally after explaining all that we will get to compare the different manufactories!

Marble (lvl8, 279% production boost from relics)


Production: 118 marble/3h, which cost 620 coins and 62 tools.

Size: 2x3=6

CultureSpace(CS): 37/57,5=0,64

PopulationSpace(PS): 139/37,97=3,66

ProductionCostSpace(PCS): 62/90,85= 0,68 , and we double that to account for the coins. Making it 1,36.


TotalSpace(TS) required: 6+0,64+3,66+1,36= 11,67 squares (note, im not displaying the whole numbers with all decimals here since they would take up too much space, but I do use all decimals in the calculations.)


So production/space for marble is: 118/11,67= ca 10,1


Silk (lvl 9, 279% production boost from relics)

Prod.: 262 silk/3h, which cost 5520 coins and 552 tools.

Size: 3x4=12

CS: 140/57,5=2,43

PS: 373/37,97=9,82

PCS: (552/90,85)x2=12,15

TS: 12+2,43+9,82+12,15=36,4 squares

Prod/space: 262/36,4=7,2


But.. but wait a moment. 10,1 (marble production/space) divided with 7,2 (silks production/space) is: 1,4.

Meaning: 10 silk is worth roughly 14 marble in this example, not 40! Could this be true? Of course it all depends on what culture buildings and residences you have but I really doubt it will ever come close to the 1:4 relation the market has or even 1:3. But let’s continue with gems.


Gems (lvl 8, 279% production boost from relics)


Prod.: 315 gems/3h, which cost 26600 coins and 2660 tools.

Size: 4x4=16

CS: 175/57,5=3,04

PS: 541/37,97=14,25

PCS: (2660/90,85)x2=58,56

TS: 16+3,04+14,25+58,56=91,85 squares

Prod/space: 315/91,85=3,4


Making 1 gem the same value as roughly 3 marble (not 16).

End notes

Hope this made any sense at least!
I just wanted to post this before going to bed to get it off my head in a way and hope anyone can prove me totally wrong. :)


Good night!
 
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DeletedUser219

Guest
Very nice work with the math, but even in our world value is more than the physical reality.
Value often involves perception rather than statistics. If we consider the types of goods, we can stretch your model a bit.
We have:
Basic Goods
Crafted Goods
Magical Goods

Any high school dropout can help produce Basic goods. Just give him/her a hammer, chisel, or saw, and some rudimentary training and off you go.
Crafted Goods require craftspeople. Individuals who have been trained by experts to produce the finest quality.
Magical Goods require magic, which can only be applied by highly educated individuals in the most precise conditions. Even in our world, the level of education/training required boosts the cost/value of the produced item.

Another factor is cultural. Not the culture in the game, created by buildings, but the perceptions created by the culture of the world which may say that one highly polished rock or metal or wood is more valuable than another.

And the final factor in my discussion is value by decree, where a controlling body imposes a price structure on a society. In our world this is done by governments, in most game worlds this is done by the developers.

When you take these additional factors into consideration alongside your mathematics you get much closer to the 1:4 ratio.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I had a similar question a few months ago when I noticed that the building requirements for the various manufactories differs greatly within the same tier.

Take a level 15 elven elixir manufactory for example and compare it with a level 15 elven gem manufactory. The elixir manufactory requires more population, while the gems manufactory requires more culture. You'll find these differences in hidden costs are the case when comparing any manufactories of the same tier. Efectively, it is even possible to argue that a certain combination of boosts is more beneficial than others in terms of population and culture cost per tile.

As a result same tier goods aren't technically of the same value. 1 elixir isn't actually worth 1 gem, however the (material) costs to produce one gem within an already existing manufactory are theoretically the same as that of producing 1 elixir. In reality, the costs are hardly ever the same as 1 gem is only worth the same in production costs as 1 elixir when the boosts of the buildings are the same (which is rarely the case when trading between other players). 1 gem produced within an unboosted manufactory is worth a lot more than 1 elixir produced within a manufactory with a boost of +337% for example. This is due to the fact that the production costs are calculated per good based on a boost of 0% (basically making all the boosted goods free of both hidden and material costs).

In other words, an advanced player's goods are worth much less than those of a new player just starting out in regards to production costs. Depending on boosts and building levels, it is easily possible for 1 crystal to be worth less than 1 steel.

Example:
Level 1 Steel Manufactory with a +0% boost: 20 gold+2 supplies/good
Level 15 Crystal Manufactory with a 314% boost: 19,29 gold+1,93 supplies/good

When taking into consideration the hidden costs of a level 1 steel manufactory and level 15 crystal manufactory, the crytsal would at least appear to be worth a lot more. But is it really? A new player starts off with just 6 expansions worth of space, while an advanced player will have to reach the middle of chapter 5 before unlocking the tech to build a level 15 crystal manufactory. By then, they'll have 17 additional expansions through techs and need to have completed at least 70 provinces giving them further 15 expansions. That means we would have to compare the limitation of just 150 tiles for the new player with 950 tiles for the advanced player...

Ergo: It is nearly impossible to categorise any good to having one specific value. The illusion that we have is that each good is, and in theory this is true, equal in value to good of the same tier and worth 4 times that of the previous tier.

As with so many things – that remains a theory 99% of the time.

The workshop in this example produces 828 tools/h making it 2484 tools/3h. I want to look at the productions per 3 hours since we will compare it with the goods manufactories later.
I take it you're basing this off of setting a 1 hour production cycle 3 times in a row? Nevermind, I just noticed that you used the production value from the wiki. :)
 

DeletedUser1353

Guest
Thanks for the answer everyone! There is indeed a lot of factors playing in like need/demand and other stuff, but still i think the 1:4 ratio is way off.

Still: you might need to do 3 calculations... 1 for Elves, 1 for Humans and 1 for trades between Elves and Humans ;)

Yes I'm planning on doing this some time :)
 

DeletedUser1353

Guest
Hello everyone! I'm back, and this time I bring my excel document. This way you can make the calculations yourself and see how your goods compare to eachother in your specific village!

Here's the link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1esRiO2Xbm6qp0KPdImF3iRFZcqzDMi5X7gx94aAqqkk/edit?usp=sharing

Now you just need to download it and put in your own values, and the results will magically appear. The reason I did this was because I don't know much about elves buildings etc. and I dont know how to check tool costs for manufactories I don't have myself.

So here's the situation for me atm:

WaYGCLr.png


It's a bit funny, if i want to trade marble for gems, the market wont even let me trade for my own values (3,2 marble for 1 gem), the lowest it allows is 4 for 1, and the default value is 16 for 1, which is just crazy imo.

I'll give you a quick guide how to use the document aswell.

T1= Marble,planks, steel. T2= silk,scrolls,crystal. T3= gems,magic dust, elexir. Tools= workshop.
Im assuming you only produce the boosted goods and trade for the other goods.

I recommend using your best buildings you have avaivable in the document.

Size: The size of your building simply. A 3x4 building is 12 for example.
-Pop and -Culture: Hover your building with the sell function, this way you will see how much Pop. and Culture they use. Don't accidently sell them though, lol.
Prod/3h: This is how much your manufactories produce with the 3h option, without the magical manufactories buff spell. For marble it's Marble Mosaic for example.
Cost (tools): check how much it cost to queue your 3h production. I explained in the original post that I doubled this in the calculations because of the coin cost, but dont worry, the document does this on it's own.
Size (pop.): DONT INPUT. The document calculates this on its own, it's the -pop of the building divided by your residences total pop/size.
Size (culture): DONT INPUT. The document calculates this on its own, it's -culture divided with culture buildings culture/size.
Size (tools): DONT INPUT. The document calculates this on its own.
Size (T+C): DONT INPUT. It's simply size (tools) x2, to account for the coin cost. I write about this in the first post.
Size (total): DONT INPUT. It's all sizes added together (not size (tools) since it is accounted for in size (T+C)). Including the original size.
Prod3h / size(total): DONT INPUT. Here is the result, your production per square.
Comparison simplified: DONT INPUT. An easier way to see the relations between your goods.
Comparison ingame market: How the market values your goods, including the wholesaler (20 silk costs 4 times more coins/tools than marble for example).

Hopefully this will open peoples eyes some more. I hope that the game designers have something to say about this actually.
Trading 1600 marble for 100 gems is a fair trade (2 star)? Don't think so.

Edit: Will add some more info in the guide later, like how the tools work. Also would like to add that because the provinces generally requires more T1 goods to negotiate than T2 etc ( maybe this changes the more you explore?) this makes the T1 goods EVEN more valuable!
 
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DeletedUser1765

Guest
Thanks for the interesting post and taking the time to calculate all of this! I've been wondering about the same thing for a while - the value ratio between the goods simply does not seem right. Giving away 400 marble/steel/planks just for 100 crystal/scrolls/silk - and this is supposed to be fair? I think most people that play elvenar for a while will realize sooner or later that this cannot be right. And thanks to your calculations we can even prove it now :D

Here are my calculations btw, if anyone is interested to look at them.
Steel: 3,4
Crystal: 2,1
Elixir: 1
The production boost is not the same for all three goods, so my results are not 100% correct, but I think it would not change that much :)
 

DeletedUser1353

Guest
Here are my calculations btw, if anyone is interested to look at them.
Steel: 3,4
Crystal: 2,1
Elixir: 1
The production boost is not the same for all three goods, so my results are not 100% correct, but I think it would not change that much :)

As expected, these values should be around the same for every player, and even if it happens to somehow get close to the market values in the very end game it would be wrong to have the marketvalues set for the 1% of players or so that have maxed everything.

I think the developers should look over these trader ratings asap, they clearly valued the cost for queueing the resource alot higher than the population and culture needed for the buildings when they made these ratings.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
In Forge of Empires there's a hodge podge of "fair trade ratios" and you can't effectively protect the value of your inventory unless everybody in the Guild uses a fan site such as http://foe.dppro.nl/index.php?l=tools&s=eerlijkehandel to determine the Like Value for Like Value trading ratios.

Those of use who have been through THAT wringer very much appreciate Elvenar's careful attention to the 1:4:16 trading ratios, and we're ESPECIALLY grateful for the 3-0 stars rating system and a trade list that's sorted in a convenient order.

But there's a much broader rationale as well, which we'll be able to see if we step back a bit and use typical manufacturing analytics to evaluate Elvenar.
  • Fixed Costs (or Capital Investments) account for the one-time costs for the engineering, buying the equipment, getting it installed, start-up and testing (Beta :)), and training. If you're upgrading your systems that's also a fixed cost. The tax code allows businesses to depreciate fixed costs over several years, to offset the consequent increase in profits.
  • Variable Costs (or Manufacturing Costs) account for the on-going cost of materials and labor, and everything that's needed for doing the same thing day after day after day.
  • The Breakeven Point is where the graphs cross. At SOME point your increased profits "should" exceed the original cost of the upgrade.
In Elvenar the analog is Building and Upgrading, as opposed to simply doing more of the same. We have a slight wrinkle in that our manufacturing process do not ADD VALUE, they merely convert the value from one form to another. Consequently, the raw materials used for manufacturing goods will dominate everything, if you turn the crank for long enough.

The "original" fixed costs DO NOT MATTER after a while, but the variable costs are on-going. The formula for value is
Code:
Total Value = Coins + 10*Supplies + 40*Tier1 + 160*Tier2 + 640*Tier3
You'll find this equation throughout Elvenar, whenever you
  • Buy goods from the wholesaler
  • Regard the 3-0 star rating system for fair trades
  • Buy KPs in the top bar
  • Negotiate or Cater an Encounter
  • Convert Coins+Supplies+Goods using a 2 day cycle in a level 4 Manufacturing Buildings without any boosts, buffs, nor spells
There's an obvious 1:4:16 progress in the value of goods from Tier1:Tier2:Tier3, and if the (depreciated) Fixed Costs associated WITH manufacturing those goods were WILDLY different than 1:4:16 then we'd have a problem. We're NOT talking about apples and oranges, however, rather we're talking about the cost of peeling the orange so that we can get at the fruit.

In Elvenar the Fixed Costs do, in fact, correlate quite nicely with the Variable Costs, so all that we're really talking about is HOW LONG it will take you to get to your breakeven point because, in a few weeks, the original fixed costs won't matter any more but the on-going costs of manufacturing will ALWAYS matter.
 
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DeletedUser1353

Guest
Thank you Katwijk for your reply. It was a bit hard to understand at some points but I will try to break it down as good as I can.

I agree that the building cost, the beta costs as you call it, is not very relevant after a while, since the buildings will soon pay off themselves and that cost will become smaller and smaller in relation to what you will produce with your manufactories. Thats why I haven't had those costs in my calculations.

It is true that the cost for making the resources matches the market value ratio (1:4:16), but that's not all there is to a manufactory.

So what does this cost really mean? The answer is you need more workshops to supply a gem manufactory than for example a marble manufactory, yes. But what about population? And culture? They all take space, and here is where the market value is not correct anymore. Are you telling me that you gladly trade away 1600 basic (T1) goods for 100 magic (T3) goods?

This is what I tried to explain in my first post, the cost for producing goods is tool space. But it's far from everything as you say.*

(You will come a bit closer to the 1:4:16 if you are really inactive, since you amke alot less tools with the workshop if you queue 1 day queues for example, making the costs for producing the goods alot harder to pay.)


*In this game 1 tool is worth 10 coins, and every manufactory has a production cost of tools and coins, always 10 times more coins than tools. Which is why I doubled the space of tool costs.

I will add an example:

Your workshop produces 100 tools/h, and is 12 squares big (including the culture space).
A marble manufactory produces 10 marble/h, which costs 10 tools and 100 coins.
A gem manufactory produces 10 gems/h, which costs 160 tools and 1600 coins.

Your marble manufactory requires 0,1 workshop to maintain it's goods costs. (1,2*2 squares)
Your gem manufactory requres 1,6 workshop to maintain it's goods costs. (19,2*2 squares)

everything is well, the 1:4:16 ratio is perfectly balanced... but wait what about population and culture? Nope, here it all falls apart, sorry.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
but wait what about population and culture? Nope, here it all falls apart, sorry.
Workers and the Required Culture (your rank) are both FIXED costs. You may have to click your houses to generate coins, but you DO NOT have to feed your workers nor clean pigeon poo off of the statues.

The Houses for additional workers are an obvious fixed cost, but Workshops are more of a gray area. If you want to add a Manufacturing Building, your Fixed Cost for THAT particular building needs to include
  • The building itself PLUS
  • The additional Houses for the workers
  • The additional Workshops required to support the anticipated production level
  • The additional Manufacturing capacity required for the secondary goods (Silk for Cocoons, etc)
  • The additional required Culture
  • Space only enters into the equation when you're comparing VARIOUS alternatives, in which case you need to look at the value per space so that you can ELIMINATE the cost of space from your comparison. 2+2=4, regardless of how you slice it up, or why
The Guest Race goods, which are NOT tradeable, are more akin to the Knowledge Points and the Sectors required to open the the Advanced Scouting Chests than they are to "real" goods. They're fixed costs, not variable costs, although it's admittedly a mixed bag.

The Ancient Wonders may be usefully regarded as a fancy, multilevel box in the Technology Tree, because they enable OTHER things, without any on-going variable costs.

Coins, Supplies, feedstock Goods, excess Culture (125%+) and the various buffs and spells, are all part of the VARIABLE costs, as are the Relics from encounters and the Coins/Supplies/Goods/Whatever from Quests.

You obviously have to bleed off some of your production whenever you want to invest in your fixed plant, it's a circular firing squad, but as a very useful first approximation, EVERYTHING is either a
  • Fixed Costs that occur once per building and change the capabilities of your city
  • Variable Costs that occur repeatedly, without changing anything other than the numbers at the top of the page
I'm exceedingly grateful that we finally have the Provincial Tournaments, because our Hair-On-Fire colleagues will have to shift their focus from Fixed Costs (Global Score) to Variable Costs (Tournament Score). And once Knowledge Points contributed to Ancient Wonders kick in, maybe even at 1:1, then even the Global Score will have an element that's dependant on Variable Costs.

The IMPORTANT consideration is NOT whether the Like Value ratios are precisely accurate at particular points in time, but RATHER that they are stable, and close enough to facilitate commerce.

Are you telling me that you gladly trade away 1600 basic (T1) goods for 100 magic (T3) goods?
All the time. In fact clearing excess Tier3 goods is much more difficult than clearing Tier1 or Tier2 because the point hunters load up on Tier3 manufacturing. My daily trading routine, thousands of units per day, is:
  • Buy anything that I actually need, even from undiscovered neighbors
  • Restrict the filter to the goods of which I have too many, and buy any 3 star or 2 star trades that will improve my inventory balance
  • Post a spread of fair trades if nobody else seems to be in the market for the goods of which I have too many
  • Look for 3 star trades of any sort, and use them for arbitrage
  • Set the filter to Fellowship, and clear all Fair Trades that won't totally screw up my inventory balance
While I'm throwing rocks, I might as well mention relic boosts. They're somewhat important, but they're a CRAZY basis for recruiting. My boosted goods are seldom what I'm trading with the neighbors, because I'm willing to cut closer to the bone for Fellowship Trades. BUT the trades offered by my discovered neighbors are FAR more important, with both larger quantities and a considerably higher per trader volume. Neighborhood trades allow me to offset any imbalances that might exist within my Fellowship.

Edited: Zanyah - 2016-05-16 - Inappropriate language
 
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DeletedUser1353

Guest
Workers and the Required Culture (your rank) are both FIXED costs. You may have to click your houses to generate coins, but you DO NOT have to feed your workers nor clean pigeon poo off of the statues

I see you have snowed in on your fixed and variable costs. Just because youdont have to pay population and culture manually every day doesn't mean you're not paying it. It's there, if you tear down your residences after you build your manufactories or workshops you will be at a negative population.

Youre constantly paying for population and culture with space. Just like the tool cost takes up space in form of workshops, although this is a bit harder to understand since this space very much depends on yourself. Are you active and making bevarages/simple tools/bread every day, then this space gets more value.

The Houses for additional workers are an obvious fixed cost, but Workshops are more of a gray area. If you want to add a Manufacturing Building, your Fixed Cost for THAT particular building needs to include

If you would have understood/read my initial post and checked my excel doc, then you would see all this is accounted for.

All the time. In fact clearing excess Tier3 goods is much more difficult than clearing Tier1 or Tier2 because the point hunters load up on Tier3 manufacturing.

1st: I really wish your village was close to mine! :D 2nd: If a resource is in less demand it also become less worth, so you're kind of contradicting yourself here. More demand = more worth.

So what makes a resource valuable? It's how hard it is to obtain, and how big the demand/supply for the resource is. More supply = less valuable, More demand = more valuable.

Just because a cost is fixed doesn't mean it should be disregarded, it's still there all the time taking up population and culture, even though you're not paying for it manually. In fact the fixed costs is a big part of the price for these recourses.

240px-CVP-TC-FC-VC.svg.png

Here's a picture with Fixed and variable costs. For some reason you are only regarding the variable costs as important, when you should instead look at the total costs. The Variable costs follow the 1:4:16 ratio but the fixed costs doesn't. This is why the ratio fails for the total costs.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
For some reason you are only regarding the variable costs as important,
I'm DEPRECIATING the fixed costs. As you have correctly indicated, the fixed costs are, ummm, fixed, while the Variable Costs increase forever. Consequently, as you turn the crank, the original fixed costs become less and less of a consideration.

If you want to dive into my MBA world, take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depreciation
 

DeletedUser1353

Guest
We agree to disagree then Katwijk. :) I still standby that total space effeciency is how to value a good rather than just the price. But I appreciate your input.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
So if I follow the OP, I should only build the highest tier I can, rip down the lower tiers and trade. As a gem (or whatever my boost is) is actually worth 3 marble (not 16), I am making a profit (in space and resources) as people will see a 2 star trade and feel it is a good deal...
So instead of 8 T1, 4 T2 and 1 T3 by end game, Just build as many T3 (boosted) as possible and trade, trade, trade.
This should give you the most space/culture/pop saved, while being the most efficient (after getting it running)
During setup, once I get a decent amount of T2, say the second research upgrade, bring them to max and delete T1..
Then repeat once I get to T3. Get 4+ to a decent level, then delete T2. Obviously there is an inherent cost in making then deleting something, but that can't make the ratio that much worse..

Or did I get it backwards?
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
It's true that the best way is to have only tier 3 factories and trade everything down, it's by far the most effective way. (according to game design)

Unfortuantly for the person with only tier 3 factories the players are much smarter than the whacko who came up with the 1:4:16 "fair" trade ratio. and no one actually considers such a trade "fair" therefore no one is wiling to trade with the player with only tier 3 factories, so now he is deprived of tier 1 and tier 2 goods.

end conclusion: the whacko who came up with the 1:4:16 ratio as a "fair trade" should be send back to school.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
It's true that the best way is to have only tier 3 factories and trade everything down, it's by far the most effective way. (according to game design)

Unfortuantly for the person with only tier 3 factories the players are much smarter than the whacko who came up with the 1:4:16 "fair" trade ratio. and no one actually considers such a trade "fair" therefore no one is wiling to trade with the player with only tier 3 factories, so now he is deprived of tier 1 and tier 2 goods.

end conclusion: the whacko who came up with the 1:4:16 ratio as a "fair trade" should be send back to school.

Can you ameliorate that fact by giving 3 star deals? Which (I think...) will still be a better deal than building the other manufactories? I guess more math is required to find the break even point of what you HAVE to sell it at to make a profit. So instead of 1:4, you always deal 1:2.5, so the lower levels with take it anyway, as they are flush with lower tier goods anyway..
 

DeletedUser

Guest
the whacko who came up with the 1:4:16 ratio as a "fair trade" should be send back to school.
Or perhaps he has a MBA and you don't??
  • Fixed costs (one-time startup costs) have to be depreciated (spread out over a few months)
  • Variable costs (the cost of goods used) go on forever
Our manufacturing buildings don't really add value, nor do they have any fixed operating costs, they just convert Coins and Supplies into a different form. If you look at the two day cycle for an unboosted level 4 manufacturing building then you'll find that the ratios are exactly 1:4:16, and in the long run those variable costs will swamp the fixed costs.

You can, of course, obtain further upgrades, buffs, and boosts but if that makes a relative difference at all, your lower tier goods will be even easier to come by. The ONLY reason the Tier3 goods are a glut on the market is because folks are building Tier3 manufacturing to run up there score, which makes expansion space unduly precious, and/or to buy Knowledge Points so that they can run up against the end game brick wall all that much sooner.

The availability of Tournaments will turn the Tier3 equation on it's head anyway, because all boosts will cap at 700%, rather quickly, and folks will have Knowledge Points and to spare.

The developers have indicated that the Knowledge Point in your Ancient Wonders will soon™ contribute to your score and, while we don't yet know the ratios, we do have a remarkably favorable recent precedent of 15 rank points PER Forge Point from FoE.
 
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DeletedUser1353

Guest
o if I follow the OP, I should only build the highest tier I can, rip down the lower tiers and trade.

Correct. If you have enough people willing to make these trades around you then this is a very efficient way to get resources. :)

Unfortuantly for the person with only tier 3 factories the players are much smarter than the whacko who came up with the 1:4:16 "fair" trade ratio. and no one actually considers such a trade "fair" therefore no one is wiling to trade with the player with only tier 3 factories, so now he is deprived of tier 1 and tier 2 goods.

There are some people out there that accepts them, either because they feel very generous (ie helping a fellow by pretty much giving away resources for almost no return) or they trust the games market ratios, which I cant really blame them for doing.

Can you ameliorate that fact by giving 3 star deals?

Yes, this is what I usually do. I post T3-T1 trades for 1:9 ratios (instead of the Market Ratio of 1:16), T3-T2 for 1:2 (MR=1:4)and T2-T1 for 1:3 (MR=1:4)

My current ratios according to my excel doc is: 1:2,3:3,5 so I'm still making alot of profit. :) However I feel a bit bad still when ppl in my FS accepts them.
 

DeletedUser

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My current ratios according to my excel doc is: 1:2,3:3,5 so I'm still making alot of profit. :) However I feel a bit bad still when ppl in my FS accepts them.

Just because they get LESS of a deal than they technically should, that doesn't mean they don't get a better deal than market rates..

If I buy something from someone at half price, even if they got it at a quarter price, I am still getting a deal!
 
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