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KP sharing schemes when levelling Wonders

Far Reach

Conjurer
I made a small suggestion as part of a post another thread ("About push accounts") around one way of devaluing pushing. People weren't in favour (which is fine), and that seemed to be because it conflicted with their Fellowships approach to KP sharing. I'm interested in comparing different schemes, and (to avoid derailing that thread) have started this discussion.

The schemes which I'm most familiar with are:

"KP Loan Club" - Player fills up their wonder with kp until remaining kp required is equal to the sum of all of the remaining reward chests. They then post a FW thread, naming their wonder and listing the reward chests. Fellows "loan" kp by donating an amount corresponding to an outstanding reward chest and post to say that they have done so. When all chests are taken the wonder is complete and the donating fellows get their kp back.

Comments: This is optimal in terms of rewards, but relies on lots of active participants to ensure rapid turnover. The calculation of kp requirements (all performed by the player with the wonder) is slightly more involved when external and/or stray donations are involved.

"KP swap threads" - A thread is started for a given kp amount (say 10kp). A player with 10kp available donates to the player and wonder last named on the thread. They also post their name and favoured wonder at the foot of the thread.

Comments: This is easy and flexible, but doesn't give optimal returns and can be restrictive if fellows invest in their wonders at different rates.

Are there other schemes to advocate ?
 

Gargon667

Immortal
"KP swap threads" - A thread is started for a given kp amount (say 10kp). A player with 10kp available donates to the player and wonder last named on the thread. They also post their name and favoured wonder at the foot of the thread.

Comments: This is easy and flexible, but doesn't give optimal returns and can be restrictive if fellows invest in their wonders at different rates.
You really need to work on your percentage calculations ;) Both Swap threads and loan clubs are EXACTLY equal in terms of KP returns. It took me months to convince @Paladestar and I am not going to do it again with you now ;) But you might ask him maybe he feels like sharing :D
Without knowing how you calculate I am guessing you apply the same percentages to different bases (In swap threads to the entire AW upgrade KP amount and in loan clubs only to the KP spent in your own AW, rather than the entire amount) which of course you are not allowed to do if you want to compare the 2 systems. if the theoretical explanation doesn´t work try a practical approach, make a hypothertical FS with 8 people and upgrade an AW with 7 reward chests, see how much KP is donated and received in each system, you´ll see it´s exactly the same only the spread is different, but for the FS it makes no difference. When you take into account outside donations the swap threads are actually better than loan clubs. But it is a marginal amount. if you look at how many KP are moved around every day and how many outside donations end up in a FS using either system. But that´s really it now with that topic.

Are there other schemes to advocate ?
Well there is the spreadsheet based thing I believe they call it Wonder Society on occasion. I personally think it is by far the best scheme, but convincing other of that fact is far too time consuming. Also the original setup takes a bit of time, once it is up and running it should be super fast and easy, with less work for everybody (except for the organizer, who needs to keep the spreadsheet up to date).

The NO SYSTEM. Just put your KP in your AWs and don´t give a crap who does or does not donate :) Highly inefficient, but also the least maintenance possible :)

GARGON SPECIAL: With the new tourney I stopped trying to upgrade my AWs quickly and instead do it as inefficiently as possible, by using swap chains just enough to (over)fill all the reward chests (which then makes them impossible to be taken by outsiders without losing KP). Then I fill all the rest in myself, which means I get no (or low) rewards for my small donations, leaving the good chests for my fellows, while the reward chests in my own AW give superhigh rewards (up to 100%) to my fellows :) It´s kind of a fun way to spread my KP around in my FS rather than using them to make my tourneys harder.
 

Alcaro

Sorcerer
Well there is the spreadsheet based thing I believe they call it Wonder Society on occasion. I personally think it is by far the best scheme, but convincing other of that fact is far too time consuming. Also the original setup takes a bit of time, once it is up and running it should be super fast and easy, with less work for everybody (except for the organizer, who needs to keep the spreadsheet up to date).

The NO SYSTEM. Just put your KP in your AWs and don´t give a crap who does or does not donate :) Highly inefficient, but also the least maintenance possible :)
In both my FS we are using a modified version of Wonder Society System from Gem of Elvenar, type "pile-on". I love it. <3
In one FS I've learned about it and liked it so much that I "moved" the Number Mage from the second FS (where I am the AM) to the first for a week to learn about the system. In my FS where I am AM, was easy to implement it, we explained peeps how it works and also explained them that this is the way, no other. I deleted all swap threads and basta. Now all are happy. No more posting in all threads, looking who donated or forgot, in the evening trying to get the number of KPs to donate so that you have the KP bar empty. What a nuisance it was to use swap threads!
To answer to OP, I advocate for WS system type - pile on, because all get an equal % revenue from their donation, no matter how big or small it is, no matter if they get a chest or not. Also, you get the same revenue for your own donation if your Wonder is a Target (selected Wonder to donate).

To the NO SYSTEM - Jeez Gargon! You gave me a good laugh!!! :D :D :D
 
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Wibbly Woo

Spellcaster
Wonder Society is awesome, so long as you have some moonlighting accountants in the fellowship to run it, and everyone remembers to play their part in terms of waiting to upgrade until the donations are recorded. It also has the wonderful advantage that there is literally zero thought required in terms of where to put the KPs.
 

Alcaro

Sorcerer
Wonder Society is awesome, so long as you have some moonlighting accountants in the fellowship to run it, and everyone remembers to play their part in terms of waiting to upgrade until the donations are recorded. It also has the wonderful advantage that there is literally zero thought required in terms of where to put the KPs.
Thankfully, both FS have those "moonlighting accountants" who are doing a great job managing the WS system/ SS and making our lives so much better.
 

Gargon667

Immortal
I am not upgrading my wonders anymore, guess that makes it the ultimate NO system.
It´s so NO SYSTEM it warps in on itself and turns into a black hole where all ideas go and never come back!
 

Gargon667

Immortal
and what are you doing with the excess of KPs or KP instants? Can I have them? :D I do not care much about tourny so I gladly upgrade some wonders.
Ah thanks for reminding me! That is another rule of the GARGON SPECIAL system: You are not allowed to use KP instants for it, only regular KP, otherwise it goes too fast!
KP instants are used for gifts, rewards and prizes (and of course into long term storage when I don´t have the time to get rid of them) :D Anything that goes somewhere else without upgrading my AWs.
 

WinterLivia7

Spellcaster
@Gargon667
ahahahahaaahaaa ... soooo ... gifts, rewards and prizes consisting in KPs instants which can be used only to upgrade the wonders. You don't want to upgrade your wonders because of the new tourny formula, so .. you are screwing up other players. You are evil!!! :D :D :D :D
 

Gargon667

Immortal
@Gargon667
ahahahahaaahaaa ... soooo ... gifts, rewards and prizes consisting in KPs instants which can be used only to upgrade the wonders. You don't want to upgrade your wonders because of the new tourny formula, so .. you are screwing up other players. You are evil!!! :D :D :D :D
Exactly :D
 

SkyRider99

Sorcerer
We use philanthropy and altruism. Similar to @Gargon667 'No System', but it's sustained collectively by fellows freely donating their KPs to help other FS members. Call it inefficient if you like. However every member gets help which is given by other fellows to the best of their ability, and when it becomes possible. For example when they're locked in research or when they get a few KP instants to share.

And everyone gets their fair share of KP for their favourite AWs. We don't keep count and badger or vilify fellows if they do not exactly match KP donations. Every member of our FS supports every other member, because that's what they like to do.

Our fellowship believes the game should be fun and a pleasant diversion from RL. The last thing we want is another constrictive accounting system to strangle us and kill the fun. I think we all get enough of that in RL.

But to each their own. If others get enjoyment from counting beans then good luck and more strength to you.
 

Heymrdiedier

Enchanter
suprised nobody suggested this yet.

The netzero system:
you ask in chat to your FS for each to give the kp of each chestreward, and you fill te rest of your wonder yourself.
like if you have a chest of 25 , 15, 10 and 5, you ask for 20/15/10/5 in chat. Your FS members wont gain free kp (they will get free runes however) and you get a 20% kp discount compared to filling it completly yourself.
(Think filling it yourself first and then asking for the rest is safest so others don't run with the chests)
This system is mainly to help people who don't use the other systems a lot, and therefor never get kp back from the chest since they are always amongs the bottom contributors. Instead they will now get a 20% discount.
 

Gargon667

Immortal
suprised nobody suggested this yet.

The netzero system:
you ask in chat to your FS for each to give the kp of each chestreward, and you fill te rest of your wonder yourself.
like if you have a chest of 25 , 15, 10 and 5, you ask for 20/15/10/5 in chat. Your FS members wont gain free kp (they will get free runes however) and you get a 20% kp discount compared to filling it completly yourself.
(Think filling it yourself first and then asking for the rest is safest so others don't run with the chests)
This system is mainly to help people who don't use the other systems a lot, and therefor never get kp back from the chest since they are always amongs the bottom contributors. Instead they will now get a 20% discount.
It is actually the very first one that was suggested :)
 

Far Reach

Conjurer
This system is mainly to help people who don't use the other systems a lot, and therefor never get kp back from the chest since they are always amongs the bottom contributors. Instead they will now get a 20% discount.
I also like the fact that it guarantees that all chests will be fully filled (which is needed for optimal returns and to resist interlopers) which regular swap schemes don't do. Evidentially (given his comments above) this isn't an issue in practice for @Gargon667 , but it has been one for some swap clubs I've seen, or been part of.

I agree that holding back some kp (to complete one's wonder only once the Fellowship have filled the chest) is safest to discourage interlopers. A few in my Fellowship do this. I prefer to put in all of my kp up front. This means that donors will get their kp back as soon as the chests are filled (typically a few hours at worst) even if I'm offline. It does increase the risk of an outsider claiming a chest slightly, but the potential gain for a such an interloper (and loss to the Fellowship) is rather small (2kp) and the time window for this opportunity is narrow (usually just minutes).