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Discussion July 2022 Fellowship Adventure - Feedback

Skallywag

Spellcaster
I'm finding myself liking the changes to the FAs more and more. The new way of collecting was a game changer for me. Then adding in Fellowship Experience to the rewards was a big addition. The latest change I just see as rebalancing -- we always regarded the sacks of gold as "the easy badge" and finished with plenty to spare.

The next badges to fix are Wonder Society and Elvarian Guard -- I'm sitting on 100's of those, without even trying.
 

Skallywag

Spellcaster
Guards are not easy for all. No one in my FS has a D222-z "Simia Sapiens", as none of us have got that far yet. Also, nearly no one has a brown bear. I expect with those that the Guard badges become really easy. Otherwise you are left using a lot of time boosts.
We have a strong FS and focus on tournaments and the spire, and guards badges are the easiest of the bunch at this point. The game has put a premium on spire and tournament play, and the badges seem to be rewarding fellowships that participate heavily in all aspects of the game, not just cities tuned for FA's.

At the end of the day, the FA's are a competition between fellowships - let the fellowship that adapts the best to the parameters presented win.
 

Sameer

Novice
Hi anyone done the math on the sack of gold?
I have a level 10 city with 20 residence @ level 24 earning 7181 coin per/hour
7181 x 24 hours =172344 coins per day
172344 x 20 res = 3,446,880 coins per all residence
3446880 x 6 days of FA = 20,681,280 coins per the duration of the FA
20681280 x 25 Cities = 517,032,000 for a Fellowship avg size
Now let look at the badges
361 sack of gold badges to complete all 3 stages
for level 10 city with a level 25 main hall it takes 7,056,000 coin to complete 1 sack of gold.
361 x 7056000 = 2,547,216,000
we only miss the mark by 2 Trillion coins
did I miss something here, does anyone know a good QA guy....
O yeah that's what I do for a living. LOL
rant over
 

Silly Bubbles

Sorcerer
So far we're doing better than last FA ranking wise. It looks like that my teleports used to build a shanty town weren't wasted.:)
I'd still prefer having at least couple of days notice for big changes like this.
 

Killiak

Artisan
Hi anyone done the math on the sack of gold?
I have a level 10 city with 20 residence @ level 24 earning 7181 coin per/hour
7181 x 24 hours =172344 coins per day
172344 x 20 res = 3,446,880 coins per all residence
3446880 x 6 days of FA = 20,681,280 coins per the duration of the FA
20681280 x 25 Cities = 517,032,000 for a Fellowship avg size
Now let look at the badges
361 sack of gold badges to complete all 3 stages
for level 10 city with a level 25 main hall it takes 7,056,000 coin to complete 1 sack of gold.
361 x 7056000 = 2,547,216,000
we only miss the mark by 2 Trillion coins
did I miss something here, does anyone know a good QA guy....
O yeah that's what I do for a living. LOL
rant over

Better start clicking all your neighbours every day.
 

Sir Derf

Mentor
@Sameer I did math similar to what you did above.

Describing in terms of trillions of coins sounds scary, but big numbers sound big and scary. Slightly easier to judge would be talking in terms of percents. Using your numbers, collections from your Residences in Chapter 10 provided 20.3% of your FA goal. which I agree sounds shorter than you (or I) would like. My unadjusted city value for Residence collection was 37%

From there, consider
  • A Level 24 Residence produces 4,764 coins/h without Culture boost. Your reported 7,181 appears to include about 50% Culture Bonus.
  • You computed over 6 days, 144 hours, where an FA lasts closer to 150 hours. This increases by 4.2%.
  • Level 24 Residences can produce 16.5 of coins before the FA starts. That's another 11.4% increase.
So, your initial numbers can grow to 23.47% of FA goal.
  • You are mid-way through your chapter, so are not receiving the full benefits that your chapter can provide. For Chapter 10, Level 24 Residences are the first of 2 Residence upgrades. A Level 25 Residence produces 5,023 coins/hour, with 150% Culture Bonus, that's 7,535 coins/h and can store for 17 hours, and thus 20 residences could produce 629,172,500 coins, 24.7% of FA goal.
  • You appear to be reporting including 50% Culture Bonus. I'm not sure where this is coming from. But, if your Fellowship buffs your culture buildings as part of NH, you can boost that by 24*5%=120%, for a total 270%. If you were already making 24.7% of FA goal, an additional 120% of production would add another 29.64% of FA goal, bringing you to 54.34% of FA goal.
By advancing through your chapter and leveraging your Fellowship's NH for Culture Boost, you could possibly increase your numbers from 20.3% to 54.34% of FA goal.

After that, you need to consider
  • Golden Abyss, which for me could give 50.28% of FA goal (your numbers may vary)
  • 'Shantytown' residences, which for me could give 12.7% of FA goal without full Culture Boost, or about 18.7% of FA goal with full Culture Boost (your numbers may vary)
  • Neighborly Help from regular neighbors, which for me gave 107.4% of FA goal all on its own (your numbers may vary)
So yes, the math you did based on incompletely analyzing the Gold from your current Residences only paints a bleak 20.3% of goal. However, that computation represents only a fraction of the Sacks you could have available to you from your Residences, and a fraction of the Sacks available to you form your city as a whole.
 

Jake65

Sorcerer
Build shantytowns of temporary coin producers.
Genuine question: what buildings would you suggest? I can't think of any offhand.
Small, 'disposable' manus and workshops are easy for their relevant badges as they're not based on the production quantity, just the number of productions.
 

Sir Derf

Mentor
I've occasionally put 'shantytown' in quotes, because while I picture it using some of the space you would have used for L1 Manus and Workshops, you need to make efficient mass quantities of Coins for Sacks, which means high level Residences. I would think of it more like if you're the type of player who keeps extra high level Manus to teleport in and out to help make Bracelets.
 

Sir Derf

Mentor
Edit: Ooops, Scouted Provinces /= Neighbors. If I can work out the conversion, I'll repost. All given numbers are way high, possibly 200%.

My numbers had Neighborly Help as the biggest piece of my Sack production, so I was curious how this breaks down across the Chapters...

ChapterHighest MHNH
(coins)
Provinces for next ChapterNH * Prov * 7
(coins)
Coins / SackSacks% of 14.44
151k1070k72k0.976.7%
293.6k25630k192k3.2822.7%
31513.2k504,620k396k11.6780.8%
41513.2k756,930k756k9.1763.5%
51513.2k1009,240k1,392k6.6446.0%
61717.1k13015,561k2,016k7.7253.5%
71921k16023,520k2,976k7.9054.7%
82126k19034,580k4,176k8.2857.3%
92331k22047,740k5,944k8.0355.6%
102537k25064,750k7,056k9.1863.6%
112744k28086,240k8,880k9.7167.2%
122952k320116,480k10,944k10.6473.7%
133160k360151,200k13,284k11.3878.8%
143369k400193,200k15,912k12.1484.1%
1535101k440311,080k17,784k17.49121.1%
1637117k480393,120k20,508k19.17132.8%
1739142.5k520518,700k23,448k22.12153.2%
1841183k560717,360k27,912k25.70178.0%
1943240k600?1,008,000k36,672k27.49190.4%

'Overscouting' will, of course, increase your above numbers.
 
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Sir Derf

Mentor
Golden Abyss across the ages...

ChapterHighest MHMH CapacityL35 (5.6%)*38Coin/SackSacks% of 14.44
291,200k67.2k25,536k192k133921.1%
3154,400k246.4k9,363.2k396k23.6163.4%
4154,400k246.4k9,363.2k756k12.485.9%
5154,400k246.4k9,363.2k1,392k6.746.4%
6175,700k319.2k12,144.8k2,016k6.041.6%
7197,700k431.2k16,385.6k2,976k5.538.1%
82110,400k582.4k22,131.2k4,176k5.336.7%
92313,600k761.6k28,940.8k5,944k4.933.9%
102517,400k974.4k37,027.2k7,056k5.236.0%
112722,000k1,232k46,816k8880k5.336.7%
122927,000k1,512k57.456k10,944k5.336.7%
133134,000k1,904k72,352k13,284k5.437.4%
143341,000k2,296k87.248k16,912k5.236.0%
153546,000k2,576k97,888k17,784k5.538.1%
163754,000k3,024k114,912k20,508k5.638.8%
173980,000k4,480k170,240k23,448k7.350.6%
1841120,000k6,720k255,360k27,912k9.163.0%
1943160,000k8,960k340,480k36,672k9.364.4%


Wildly unlikely to have Level 35 Golden Abyss in the early Chapters, I know...
 

Laurelin

Scholar
PLEASE NOTE : Long Post - Please just skip to Bold Text highlights (at the bottom) to avoid the preamble if preferred - thanks! :)

It's difficult to give my full views on this without summoning the Final Form of L. Loquax back from the Beta Forum (she hasn't forgotten how to ramble - she's just moved house) ... but I'll try to keep my [long] opinion on the current FA changes in [what I regard as] a shorter form. So :

1. None of the FA's current changes [excluding graphical glitches etc.] results from either an accident or what would have to be several bugs, appearing simultaneously - I think that the changes are just another example of the now-commonplace habit of the F2P gaming industry to operate silent A/B Tests. Now that gaming houses can constantly collect and analyse detailed live player metrics, from trivial daily in-game actions to long-term spending patterns - with many larger companies doing so on a larger scale than perhaps some of us realise - they can very accurately gauge the responses and behaviour patterns of their entire player-base from the moment a player enters the game.

Taking this into account, the 'traditional' alternative of a far smaller amount of necessarily narrower [and subjective] player opinions and data - as were and sometimes still are acquired via Beta Servers, Forums, and similar - tends to become near-irrelevant in terms of its accuracy, and is slower and more difficult for the company concerned to collate and analyse, and while many games operate this kind of A/B testing in quite a broad manner between players and/or in-game groups, in this instance it appears that the testing is also comparing different levels of Chapter advancement as well.

Note : For me (on browser) the ongoing FA has suffered from dramatic server-side lag throughout, with City collections taking up to two hours to be credited to Badge totals, and with many other lag-related issues. Excluding player system problems - which do not apply in my case - this often indicates a high volume of data exchange, which in turn often indicates an unusually high degree of live metrics being taken up (in any online game).

2. The FA, and every other major element of the game, theoretically 'optional' or not, is now intended, by Inno, neither to be genuinely optional nor to stand alone. Inno has always 'given with one hand and taken [usually more] with the other' - and they are now becoming expert at doing so across a broad spectrum of in-game elements. However, without taking a wide and long-term perspective, the complex interaction between many, if not most, changes to the game can be difficult to see, especially if the player is unaware of the history of changes made to the game.

3. Coins and Supplies are the fundamental basic Resources of the game. I doubt there is any need to elaborate further as to how this alone readily explains the severity of the changes we are now seeing to what already were, for most non-early-game Cities, somewhat demanding FA Coins and Goods-based Badges - and it becomes very apparent, once the powerful import of this apparently simplistic fact is further examined, that the game's entire foundation rests upon the timed accrual of Coins and Supplies, at an underlying pre-set rate outside of the player's control, as therefore do all of its secondary and subsequent Resources [e.g. Goods], over which the player has far more control - as thus does, even if less obviously, the whole superstructure of the game. And if anyone finds this reminiscent of Farmville-type games - the comparison is valid.

And so, whether visibly or not, everything in the game, from Troops to Events, and from Spells to Spell Fragments, is fundamentally derived from Coins and Supplies [and later analogues, such as Orcs, Seeds, Mana etc.]. Therefore, the availability - and/or lack - of these vital but, to most players, rather boring and workaday Resources, unlikely though this at first may seem, entirely controls the function and viability of not only daily City operation and productions, but, in their turn, of all of the game's 'top-level' and highly visible theoretically 'optional' add-ons as well - such as the Spire-Crafting synergistic system, Tournaments, Events, etc. - and also FAs - as it will control any other similarly repeating content yet to be introduced in the future.

4. It seems to me highly improbable that the ongoing FA changes are a unique exception to every other feature of the game - whether or not the ongoing changes are reverted or adjusted in future (and metrics will be the deciding factor there) - and, as such, these changes, Draconian though they are, are very probably neither bugs nor accidental early introductions of future 'as-yet untested' changes, but rather are an intentional part of a much wider and very long-term strategy, which in Elvenar's case I would expect to extend forward for at least a year, and maybe two years or more.

In Conclusion : With reference to the FA Coins and Bracelet Badges in particular, one significant part of Inno's long-term strategy, at its present stage, appears [to me] to be the intentional draining of players' stockpiles of in-game Resources of all kinds, especially the often very large stockpiles of later-game Cities - in parallel with the early prevention of such stockpiling, which is visible in the case of those newly started Cities which are being assigned the so-called 'minor' ongoing pre-Guest Race [significantly] altered Tech Tree and Chapter Quests, since these Cities are experiencing what amounts to Resource starvation on all levels - especially in Coins, Relics, and KP - but Coins are of note in this discussion.

And my advice : (although of course nobody asked!) is : GUARD YOUR COINS - do NOT rashly spend your currently plentiful Coin Instants - they may be showered upon us now, but I think this is unlikely to continue. It's no coincidence that Inno now persistently offers, as Event Grand Prizes - and via expensively newly designed 'Tomes' - a choice of only one of 100% Coin Rain, 100% Supply Windfall, or 20 AWKP Instant. Scarcity is coming.

The No. 1 Rule of [non/low-paid] 'Free' to Play gaming is : Save ALL Resources, from the outset - Waste none - Spend them VERY cautiously.

Last Edited : c.08:00 on 26th July 2022 [for typos and clarity only]
 
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Fugawe

Seeker
We have a small FS that loves the FA and we have completed it every time despite having only having 3 or 4 members participate. We will complete everything again at about the 24 hour left mark EXCEPT FOR COINS. We have 50 sacks to go with 36 hours. This is despite maxing out neighborly help on the map, etc. and cashing in all of our accumulated coin boosts. It is ridiculous to have to zero out your coins through the wholesaler over and over trying to carefully get to as close as zero as possible to not waste coins when dropping the 100% coin boost over and over and over and still be so far away from having enough coin sacks.
 

Silly Bubbles

Sorcerer
@Laurelin Good conspiracy theories, only time will tell whether you're right or not (or espionage). Let's hope for the best, be prepared for the worst and something in between will happen. :D
 

Laurelin

Scholar
@Laurelin Good conspiracy theories, only time will tell whether you're right or not (or espionage). Let's hope for the best, be prepared for the worst and something in between will happen. :D
Ha - well said - although if it were not against the Forum rules to talk politics, I'd expound on how yesterday's conspiracy theory is often today's mainstream news. I'd love to hear your own views on WHY Inno have made such a spectacular, [apparently] untested, and unpopular change...! ;)
NB : IF you are inclined to wade through it again - and as you seem to be my first intrepid reader? - the above now trivially edited for clarity & typos.
 

Silly Bubbles

Sorcerer
Ha - well said - although if it were not against the Forum rules to talk politics, I'd expound on how yesterday's conspiracy theory is often today's mainstream news. I'd love to hear your own views on WHY Inno have made such a spectacular, [apparently] untested, and unpopular change...! ;)
NB : IF you are inclined to wade through it again - and as you seem to be my first intrepid reader? - the above now trivially edited for clarity & typos.

Sorry, I don't have a theory as it doesn't help me to get Sack of Coins :D
But yes, I could let my imagination go wild if I was that inclined and actually had something out of it. I rather let the Universe (or Newton's third law) do it's wonders and pick what I like out of it.
 

zathraus

Dreamer
UPDATE: The changes were apparently a mistake. From the German forum: "This should not have happened yet with the current FA, however we decided against fixing that now during an ongoing FA."



294320001_10221259589019894_4227788955448119447_n.jpg
Of the members in our group who have reported on Coin qty per badge, here are the figures. For most players, the percentage of MH qty to a Coin badge fluctuates between 40% to 54%. Putting aside the astonomical amounts of coins required depending on Player level, there has to be factors other than MH level because the percentages don't grow in a proportional amount.

Our least experienced player had it the worst and I've advised them to take a screenshot and log a call with support, as their coin badge requirement was 16% higher than their MH capacity, forcing them to spend coins before being able to accept additional ones. On the flip side, we only had one player who had a chance of achieving a decent success.

Our MH Levels, capacity and Coin badge requirements.

Main Hall
Lv Capacity Badge Req. % of
9 1,200K 1,392K 116
15 4,400K 396K 9
17 5,700K 2,976K 52
18 6,600K 2,976K 45
19 7,700K 4,176K 54
21 10,400K 5,544K 53
22 11,900K 5,544K 47
27 22,000K 8,880K 40
29 27,000K 13,284K 49
32 38,000K 15,912K 42
37 54,000K 23,448K 43
 

SkyRider99

Necromancer
NB : IF you are inclined to wade through it again - and as you seem to be my first intrepid reader? - the above now trivially edited for clarity & typos.
Good clarity and no typos detected @Laurelin. I found the use of 'etc.' a little repetitive, but that may just be me. I was never permitted to use 'etc.' when writing for government. :)
 
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