• Good day, Stranger! — Are you new to our forums?

    Have I seen you here before? To participate in or to create forum discussions, you will need your own forum account. Register your account here!

Discussion July 2022 Fellowship Adventure - Feedback

Sir Derf

Immortal
You miss my point. I accept that the way you play the FA the new rules will make it harder but not impossible to finish and gain all the prizes. But for those that are more highly competetive, striving for higher ranking in the FA and regard the Pit as the main part of the game (which requires getting all routes on all maps), then it's probably not going to happen much in this FA.
And you missed my point. I wasn't meaning to address those remarks as alternatives to competitive all-Maps Fellowships. I just wanted to post some comparison numbers for Single-Pathing Fellowships who, seeing the 360 number, might have been panicking.

Having said that, for those competitive Fellowships, well, isn't the point to be competitive? To see how you fare against the other Fellowships? Shouldn't it matter less that you don't reach any particular arbitrary level, like xxx,xxx points, or clearing all 3 Maps, and matter more that you hit top 1%, or top 10?

Also, if you're competitive, shouldn't you be relishing in the challenge?
 

Sir Derf

Immortal
Folks, I appreciate the differing perspectives, but I find it slightly more interesting with a few details... Chapter/MH Level/NH reward and #of Neighbors. Are you an advanced city with minimal scouting, a small city with massive overscouting?
 

schadenfreude

Conjurer
I don't necessarily think we're owed an announcement to changes in the FA, just like we're not owed any explanation for any events they introduce. It would be a courtesy if they do. It feels like someone slipped when turning the dial up though, or it's possibly by the same person that gave us the inventory display bug where everything was off by a decimal point.
 

Sir Derf

Immortal
How's about this...

Maybe we're not owed an announcement ahead of time (although you'd think that since they give us announcements before every release to mention "Improvements" and "Bug Fixes" they're kinda sus on that front...) But what about an in-game announcement when the FA started, pointing out the change to badge costs, thus preventing multiple players asking "Is this a bug?"?
 

schadenfreude

Conjurer
How's about this...

Maybe we're not owed an announcement ahead of time (although you'd think that since they give us announcements before every release to mention "Improvements" and "Bug Fixes" they're kinda sus on that front...) But what about an in-game announcement when the FA started, pointing out the change to badge costs, thus preventing multiple players asking "Is this a bug?"?
But we like flooding volunteer support with unnecessary tickets :)
 

Jackluyt

Shaman
Bracelet values have increased. (And coins and elvarian guards too)
Please help us to record the new values:

Chapter 1
Chapter 2 - 260 (decrease)
Chapter 3 - 520 (decrease)
Chapter 4 - 1830 (decrease)
Chapter 5 - 4 400 (decrease)
Chapter 6 - 6 800
Chapter 7 - 9 400
Chapter 8 - 13 000
Chapter 9 - 18 800
Chapter 10 - 24 000
Chapter 11 - 30 000
Chapter 12 - 40 000
Chapter 13 - 49 000
Chapter 14 - 58 000
Chapter 15 - 67 000
Chapter 16 - 72 000
Chapter 17 - 77 000
Chapter 18 - 87.000
Chapter 19 - 101 000


294041461_10221251058446635_3127462856999278795_n.jpg
 
Last edited:

foolfighter

Alchemist
Having said that, for those competitive Fellowships, well, isn't the point to be competitive? To see how you fare against the other Fellowships? Shouldn't it matter less that you don't reach any particular arbitrary level, like xxx,xxx points, or clearing all 3 Maps, and matter more that you hit top 1%, or top 10?

Also, if you're competitive, shouldn't you be relishing in the challenge?
Again you seem to miss my point, We will be competitive, we will strive to go as far as we can, and whatever we get to will be an arbitrary number, and everyone is suffering the same problem, I get that. But the way this FA has suddenly changed it looks increasingly likely that the Pit, that many FS, including my FS, think to be the best part of the game, will be restricted to those who buy badge packs. Is this change just a device by Inno to persuade more diamond purchases?
But the aditional problem, as I alluded to a long way above this message, is that by making specifically Sacks of Coins such a big bottleneck for progress is that by days 4, 5 and 6 we are just going to be sitting around twiddling our thumbs in idle cities waiting to acquire sacks of coins slowly, before making a handful of other badges to make some sort of advance - as was the case when Arcane Residue was the bottleneck. The end few days of this FA are going to be very boring. I suspect you will be done with 1 route on each of three maps and all the prizes gained well before the end of the event as well.
 

Giraffi

Enchanter
@Jackluyt, can you start a list for coin bags too, please.

A few contributions for your bracelet list
chapter 3 520
chapter 4 1830
chapter 8 13 000
chapter 11 30 000
 

Giraffi

Enchanter
You miss my point. I accept that the way you play the FA the new rules will make it harder but not impossible to finish and gain all the prizes. But for those that are more highly competetive, striving for higher ranking in the FA and regard the Pit as the main part of the game (which requires getting all routes on all maps), then it's probably not going to happen much in this FA.
This is where strategy comes in. One actually do not have to complete all routes on all maps before going to pit. I play on teams that spend many rounds in the pit and we optimise where badges will score more points.

These changes will surely impact negatively on the total amount of points that can be scored. In my experience many top team players are trying to put together the same number of all badges and were already needing to do that by using coin boosts. They just won’t be able to do this sustainably if you need 50% of you MH max for a coin bag.
 

Jake65

Necromancer
Folks, I appreciate the differing perspectives, but I find it slightly more interesting with a few details... Chapter/MH Level/NH reward and #of Neighbors. Are you an advanced city with minimal scouting, a small city with massive overscouting?
Here goes.....
Chapter 15
Level 33 main hall
Capacity 41 million
NH 69k
Badge 17784k
Level 31 abyss giving 2.1 million which doesn't even scratch the 17.7 million needed for the badge.
6*chap14 and 2*chap15 magic residences.
+/-160 neighbours based on 18 pages on PC NH help window.
I've finished the 8th ring so next ring is "easy" for scouting.

(There's a formula that I don't know using the number of rings to determine the number of neighbours. I'd be interested to know if it matches what I see in the NH help window. )
 

Sir Derf

Immortal
I am not a competitive FAer. I was not a competitive FAer. However, I am a Semi-Pointless Mather.

My FA was and is meant to be laid back - we don't ask for beyond minimum participation so that everyone should get a copy of whatever rewards we all earn - single province in a Tourney, single badge per Map in an FA.

That said, I have in the earlier FA, where I felt most badges were easier to compute and compare relative efforts in map squares and time, done the math to determine what gave the best bang-for-your-buck in FA points... which paths were overall cheapest, which additional waypoints, or sequences of waypoints, were then better in badges/points than rounds of the pit. In that earlier FA formulation, at least according to my computations, there were definitely some Waypoints that were not worth doing - that those badges gave better point rewards if saved and used in the Pit.

So, competitive FAers... were all the Waypoints in the current style of FA (before the change in cost of Sacks) worth doing vs. saving badges for the Pit? I suspect that there were some that weren't, but I don't know. If Sack Badges now cost more, does this change that accounting, and if so, in which direction?
 

Jake65

Necromancer
were all the Waypoints in the current style of FA (before the change in cost of Sacks) worth doing vs. saving badges for the Pit?
No they weren't. Some of the waypoints in stage 3 required lots of blacksmiths (I forget the exact number but did work it out at the time) that were worth a lot more in the pit.
Even factoring in the additional badges that were needed for either the waypoint or the pit.
 

schadenfreude

Conjurer
Folks, I appreciate the differing perspectives, but I find it slightly more interesting with a few details... Chapter/MH Level/NH reward and #of Neighbors. Are you an advanced city with minimal scouting, a small city with massive overscouting?
Even without those details, @Jake65 said it's 250 neighbors for 1 sack of coin. Does that even sound reasonable regardless what his MH is??? That's almost 28 pages of neighbors...
 

Jake65

Necromancer
One thing I just realised is the value of received NH.
230k on my main hall.
However, received help is far less than given so I would say can't really be factored in.
For me, maybe 30 per day, mostly culture.
 

BlueBlou

Illusionist
So, competitive FAers... were all the Waypoints in the current style of FA (before the change in cost of Sacks) worth doing vs. saving badges for the Pit? I suspect that there were some that weren't, but I don't know. If Sack Badges now cost more, does this change that accounting, and if so, in which direction?
No, they were not, but which ones to skip depended on the strengths and the weaknesses of the team, so no universal answer of what to skip and what not. The main aim is to skip the points that had badges in critical short supply and add on the maps what you would end up having in oversupply.

Off-hand, perhaps the coin situation has become so bad that it might be best to skip all the coin points, but do all the rest.
 

Sir Derf

Immortal
If it was worth it in the past, it should still be worth it now. If 50 Sacks into a Waypoint gave more points than 50 Sacks into the Pit before, well the cost of both went up equally, and the Waypoint still gives more points for the same cost in Sacks.

The real question is if you will be able to complete it or not. If it takes 50 Sacks for the Waypoint, and you will, at the end, only have 45 Sacks and so can't finish it, you'd be better off spending the Sacks in the Pit, as Pit points is better than no points.
 

schadenfreude

Conjurer
Yes, but do they like getting flooded?
Exactly. They're not even getting paid so don't make dumb game decisions that make your volunteers' lives hectic.
If it was worth it in the past, it should still be worth it now. If 50 Sacks into a Waypoint gave more points than 50 Sacks into the Pit before, well the cost of both went up equally, and the Waypoint still gives more points for the same cost in Sacks.
Not necessarily because some badges are still easier to make than others, like Guards, which means they'll get inflated next too until everyone cries uncle.
 

Silly Bubbles

Illusionist
I suppose it's time to use up all those coin instants that might've been sitting in the inventory for a long time. Unfortunately, I've used most of mine to buy a lots of KPs not expecting such a big change in the FA. It would be nice to have at least couple of days notice for big changes like this, this is not just a minor adjustment, it's a major change. I've used a lot of teleports to make space for workshops and small manufactories, now it might be all wasted. It will surely make me think twice before I do that again.
 

foolfighter

Alchemist
No they weren't. Some of the waypoints in stage 3 required lots of blacksmiths (I forget the exact number but did work it out at the time) that were worth a lot more in the pit.
Even factoring in the additional badges that were needed for either the waypoint or the pit.
Yes, in the earlier FAs Blacksmiths were a problem on Orange 6, being worth more kept and used in the Pit. So we left Orange 6, 7, 8 not done. But that was in the days when Blacksmiths were the most difficult badge to make in large quantities and therefore it was usually the badge who's lack of numbers terminated our game, in a Pit that only used a small selection of the produced badges. Since the Pit has now expanded to take all produced badges Blacksmiths are no longer the badge most difficult to make in quantity. In more recent FAs it has been lack of Arcane Residue and Bracelets that has terminated our game. Now it appears it will be Sacks of Coins in a rather brutal and quick way before most of us have done much, if anything, in the Pit.
I understand all this. It means we are all going to get lower FS scores this time and we are all struggling with the same difficulties so the relative outcomes will be much the same, and it doesn't really matter etc, with the difference that many fewer of us will get to do much in the Pit - which is a shame for my FS as we particularly like the Pit, I get it. But everyone is ignoring my second point that when Arcane Residue was the bottleneck, then days 4, 5 & 6 were slow and boring. Now we have Sack of Coins that is going to be an even more severe bottleneck, with the consequences that is going to give us for days 4, 5 & 6. Why do Inno want to make the FAs tedious? I have just brought in the the Echos of the Forgotten as some sort of exercise in futility. A fully evolved building at chapter 17 gives me 3.2 million coins a day - if I run it for the entire FA it still won't give me enough coins for 1 sack.
 
Top