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Is Beta running too short?

Would you like to see an early release of content updates with major bugs OR a later release bugfree

  • Late release, major-bug free

    Votes: 18 94.7%
  • Early release with major bugs

    Votes: 1 5.3%

  • Total voters
    19

Zzzyk

Adventurer
Hi all

I'd like to know from the community here: is the Beta too short? We experience major bugs that were reported during Beta but not addressed prior go-live, so my question to you is: would you like to see an early release with major bugs OR a later release but major-bug free?

The Beta for Elvenar content updates was always running for just a few weeks. I was always concerned whether Elvenar developers were given enough time to address all the reported bugs prior to go-live.

Now, with Orcs&Goblins, these fears have manifested themselves in that several bugs, that were reported during Beta, are now also appearing on live servers.

Why is the team not extending Beta if major bugs such as the stacking of city buildings during Neighbour Help are not solved?

Why is there not a thinking as it exists for Blizzard Games: "It's done when it's done". Give developers enough time to address the bugs. Elvenar never had promised any go-live dates for content updates, hence there wouldn't be an issue in taking 1-2 more weeks to fix those bugs. Scared of losing players?
 

oldskoolrx7

Guest
They should be scared of losing players/income by releasing unfinished content. Nothing makes people say "I am not paying for this any more" than a game that annoys them.
 

Zzzyk

Adventurer
I am really hoping for one of the Moderators to comment on this thread. The majority of our Fellowship members (#1 on Winyandor) are raising significant concerns about this latest update. A few indicated to have serious consideration whether to quit the game.

This update was a huge step back for the Elvenar Team. Please comment and suggest how this will be solved in the future!
 

Zanyah

Ex-Team Member
As moderators we usually refrain ourselves from commenting on the substance of any thread.
This because we should not influence the opinions in any forum discussion...

However, in this case: rest assured that ALL feedback/complaints on this have been passed on. I cannot predict what will happen next of course, but all criticism on this issue is taken very seriously!
 
Last edited:

s5carrot

Sorcerer
I understand the positions of the Moderators, Zanyah. Your team are essentially doing it voluntarily; non-paid. You do what you are supposed to after agreeing to terms & conditions.

Whether or not the programmers listen to them is another story.
 

Zzzyk

Adventurer
I too understand, Zanyah. You're caught in the middle so I appreciate you forwarding the feedback to the developers.

As within any industry: if a product has major flaws you're not going to ship it. It doesn't need to be 100% perfect but it mustn't be broken.
 

Mykan

Sorcerer
There in lies the problem though, what is a considered to be a major bug can be subjective. If you're impacted by it you will certainly feel it is bigger then someone who is not. One would expect someone will have made a judgement call on whether the bugs were major enough to delay content release.

The stacking of buildings while annoying I would not consider a major bug, less then a second with the mouse to fix, and it doesn't impact everyone. The barracks issue recently to me was a major bug it impacted everyone with a barracks and severely reduced peoples ability to produce troops.
 

Zzzyk

Adventurer
I agree that the assessment of a bug's significance can be subjective. But then it's up to the Elvenar Team to translate the player's subjective assessment into measurable and objective bug classifications, so a new release is to the player's satisfaction (not an easy task but one that can be executed much better than the team currently is doing).

On stacked buildings: it's a major hassle to scroll in and out with over 220 conquered provinces. It impacts the experience severely and user experience is one of the key performance indicators for any game (again, how this is measured comes down to the developers and management).
 

Slotharingia

Guest
I also think the stacked buildings is a major issue. It looks messy as hell and prevents you from clicking on the things people specified unless you scroll in and out every city (i just click mid screen, which I think hits ppl's main hall). If you were new to the game and experienced this, I reckon you'd instantly quit as who wants to stay playing such a messed up looking game, let alone pay to do so?
 

s5carrot

Sorcerer
i just find the stacking issue unacceptable. having to scroll in & out over 100 provinces is annoying & im having much than that:(
 

oldskoolrx7

Guest
...

The stacking of buildings while annoying I would not consider a major bug, less then a second with the mouse to fix, and it doesn't impact everyone. The barracks issue recently to me was a major bug it impacted everyone with a barracks and severely reduced peoples ability to produce troops.
By that you mean when you see the bug
1) Go in and out of the city (doesn't work)
2) Reload the game (does work but seriously... who would do that??)
3) Figure it is isolated, try another city (find it is NOT isolated)
4) Search the forums, spend 15 minutes realising the OTHER things that are broken
5) Find a solution, then realise doing something (x2) 100 times makes a pointless grind even more annoying..
6) Rage quit?

I understand that it may not be super terrible, just annoying... but that is AFTER you figure it out (if you even come to the forum) and by then you are super unimpressed at a game you spent money on.. Sure, as bugs go it comes under "annoying", is that the game you want to play?
 

Mykan

Sorcerer
I have only seen the city bug once or twice so on the whole have not been impacted by it. Some fellowship members have experienced it and talked about it. The solution was shared and all fellowships are happy, no one quit. I play on numerous worlds and this bug does not seem wide spread hence I personally do not classify it as major. But what is not major to me can be major to someone else.
 

felicie

Adventurer
Hi all

I'd like to know from the community here: is the Beta too short? We experience major bugs that were reported during Beta but not addressed prior go-live, so my question to you is: would you like to see an early release with major bugs OR a later release but major-bug free?

The Beta for Elvenar content updates was always running for just a few weeks. I was always concerned whether Elvenar developers were given enough time to address all the reported bugs prior to go-live.

Now, with Orcs&Goblins, these fears have manifested themselves in that several bugs, that were reported during Beta, are now also appearing on live servers.

Why is the team not extending Beta if major bugs such as the stacking of city buildings during Neighbour Help are not solved?

Why is there not a thinking as it exists for Blizzard Games: "It's done when it's done". Give developers enough time to address the bugs. Elvenar never had promised any go-live dates for content updates, hence there wouldn't be an issue in taking 1-2 more weeks to fix those bugs. Scared of losing players?
I'm sorry, honestly I don't know what major bugs you are talking about. You don't even mention one. Stacking of city buildings during neighbor help is not 'major' bug at all. Try to zoom in lol. That one doesn't bother me at all.

Okay, someone mentioned this,
There in lies the problem though, what is a considered to be a major bug can be subjective. If you're impacted by it you will certainly feel it is bigger then someone who is not. One would expect someone will have made a judgement call on whether the bugs were major enough to delay content release.

The stacking of buildings while annoying I would not consider a major bug, less then a second with the mouse to fix, and it doesn't impact everyone. The barracks issue recently to me was a major bug it impacted everyone with a barracks and severely reduced peoples ability to produce troops.
So the stacking of buildings is small bug that we can fix by ourself in less than a second. The barracks, lol, my barracks is level 1 and isn't connected to street. And again it doesn't bother me at all.

I agree that the assessment of a bug's significance can be subjective. But then it's up to the Elvenar Team to translate the player's subjective assessment into measurable and objective bug classifications, so a new release is to the player's satisfaction (not an easy task but one that can be executed much better than the team currently is doing).

On stacked buildings: it's a major hassle to scroll in and out with over 220 conquered provinces. It impacts the experience severely and user experience is one of the key performance indicators for any game (again, how this is measured comes down to the developers and management).
Well, that really surprised me someone does 220 neighborly helps to his/her neighbor daily. Outside my fellowship, I usually give neighborly help to less than 10 people in my neighbor daily just to return the favor.

Thus, I vote for early release with minimum/unsignificant/acceptable bug.
 

oldskoolrx7

Guest
Perhaps look at previous threads for bugs that concern you. Despite that, the question still remains, if a bug is known and people are complaining about it, shouldn't it be fixed in Beta? (It doesn't matter if it doesn't affect you personally)
 

Horanda

Enchanter
On stacked buildings: it's a major hassle to scroll in and out with over 220 conquered provinces. It impacts the experience severely and user experience is one of the key performance indicators for any game (again, how this is measured comes down to the developers and management).
Let's not be misleading here. 220 conquered Provinces is nowhere near 220 NH visits, even if all of the city sites are occupied.
I'll let @Katwijk do the math. :p

On the topic, buggieness is indeed subjective, and, like it or not, the amount that those bugs bug you is really your choice.

Yes, it would be nice if developers (any developers) would release bug-free software, but they don't. It would also be nice if life treated everyone equally, and there were no hassles or tragedies, but it doesn't. But when you look at the alternative, life isn't that bad. The same is true of the games I choose to play.
 
Last edited:

Katwijk

Guest
"The Math" There are about half as many Cities as Relic Provinces, in a given area,
but you can fudge the ratio a bit if you're skipping some of the Relic Provinces.

Ring
Distance
Ring
Sectors
City
Sectors
Total
Cities
Relic
Provinces
Total
Provinces

[tr1][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 1 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 2 [/td2][td2] 12 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 12 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 3 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 12 [/td2][td2] 12 [/td2][td2] 24 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 4 [/td2][td2] 24 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 42 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 5 [/td2][td2] 30 [/td2][td2] 12 [/td2][td2] 30 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 60 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 36 [/td2][td2] 12 [/td2][td2] 42 [/td2][td2] 24 [/td2][td2] 84 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 7 [/td2][td2] 42 [/td2][td2] 12 [/td2][td2] 54 [/td2][td2] 30 [/td2][td2] 114 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 8 [/td2][td2] 48 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 72 [/td2][td2] 30 [/td2][td2] 144 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 9 [/td2][td2] 54 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 90 [/td2][td2] 36 [/td2][td2] 180 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 10 [/td2][td2] 60 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 108 [/td2][td2] 42 [/td2][td2] 222 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 11 [/td2][td2] 66 [/td2][td2] 24 [/td2][td2] 132 [/td2][td2] 42 [/td2][td2] 264 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 12 [/td2][td2] 72 [/td2][td2] 24 [/td2][td2] 156 [/td2][td2] 48 [/td2][td2] 312 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 13 [/td2][td2] 78 [/td2][td2] 24 [/td2][td2] 180 [/td2][td2] 54 [/td2][td2] 366 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 14 [/td2][td2] 84 [/td2][td2] 30 [/td2][td2] 210 [/td2][td2] 54 [/td2][td2] 420 [/td2][/tr1]
 

cheapnar

Enchanter
"The Math" There are about half as many Cities as Relic Provinces, in a given area,
but you can fudge the ratio a bit if you're skipping some of the Relic Provinces.

Ring
Distance
Ring
Sectors
City
Sectors
Total
Cities
Relic
Provinces
Total
Provinces

[tr1][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 1 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 2 [/td2][td2] 12 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 12 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 3 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 12 [/td2][td2] 12 [/td2][td2] 24 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 4 [/td2][td2] 24 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 42 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 5 [/td2][td2] 30 [/td2][td2] 12 [/td2][td2] 30 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 60 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 36 [/td2][td2] 12 [/td2][td2] 42 [/td2][td2] 24 [/td2][td2] 84 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 7 [/td2][td2] 42 [/td2][td2] 12 [/td2][td2] 54 [/td2][td2] 30 [/td2][td2] 114 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 8 [/td2][td2] 48 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 72 [/td2][td2] 30 [/td2][td2] 144 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 9 [/td2][td2] 54 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 90 [/td2][td2] 36 [/td2][td2] 180 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 10 [/td2][td2] 60 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 108 [/td2][td2] 42 [/td2][td2] 222 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 11 [/td2][td2] 66 [/td2][td2] 24 [/td2][td2] 132 [/td2][td2] 42 [/td2][td2] 264 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 12 [/td2][td2] 72 [/td2][td2] 24 [/td2][td2] 156 [/td2][td2] 48 [/td2][td2] 312 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 13 [/td2][td2] 78 [/td2][td2] 24 [/td2][td2] 180 [/td2][td2] 54 [/td2][td2] 366 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 14 [/td2][td2] 84 [/td2][td2] 30 [/td2][td2] 210 [/td2][td2] 54 [/td2][td2] 420 [/td2][/tr1]

Thanks.