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Impossible battles.

Lady Croft

Adventurer
To the developers.
Forgive me sounding frustrated & fed up; I am. I am not playing this game just to build and trade, I want to battle in the spire, join in the tournaments and complete provinces... I don't mind a challenge, but I DO mind total annihilation after training troops for 3 days and losing them all to one line up whatever combination I use and doing manual. Negotiating is there, and that's great otherwise we'd never progress.

I've read as much as I can find on this, and I am not alone at Ch 3 considering throwing in the towel. I'm getting bored with persisting and trying different tactics.

How do I win battles? How have people done this before I joined? Sort this out, please. I'm close to quitting. The troops are too weak, there's no incentive to keep going. I need troops to conquer provs to get KP, I need KP to research squad sizes (that don't make a dot of difference) to help conquer proves to get KP to research more troop things, to conquer provs.........................
 

Hekata

Shaman
In early chapters it easier to trade, or at least do half catering half fighting. Most people have done that (I think) and then slowly moved towards more fighting. With time your troops will get stronger (as you unlock more techs) and you will build Ancient Wonders that will help you with that too. For now all you can do to make your troops stronger is to craft as many military buildings from the Magic Academy as you can.
 

Pauly7

Magus
How do I win battles? How have people done this before I joined? Sort this out, please. I'm close to quitting. The troops are too weak, there's no incentive to keep going. I need troops to conquer provs to get KP, I need KP to research squad sizes (that don't make a dot of difference) to help conquer proves to get KP to research more troop things, to conquer provs.........................
If you are talking about province encounters then chapter 3 is just about the worst time in the game to be trying them. In chapter 1 these battles are very easy for about the first ring or two of provinces, but the new ones are being scouted in minutes and then the difficulty will seem to suddenly switch to very hard without warning.

There is a point where you get stronger and the fighting becomes easier again, in a few chapters. I think it is somehow caused when we scout provinces more quickly than Inno wants us to, but slowing up isn't advised at any point and we get rewarded for scouting faster.

If it's tournament encounters then that is another matter. You should be able to fight through the first few provinces without much trouble if you are picking the right troops.

Spire fighting is a bit more hit and miss for my money, plus it gets tough very quickly once you get to the second level. Mind you, in chapter 3 it can be the only real option because the amount of T2 goods it asks you to contribute can be crippling.
 

rock stream

Conjurer
I need KP to research squad sizes (that don't make a dot of difference)
Be careful researching squad sizes. Skip the optional ones. They have a negative impact on battles.
" Every squad size up grade increase the complexity of enemy troops. Some squad size upgrades can be skipped. Nothing “also keep in mind that elvenar doesn't tell people that unlocking bigger squad sizes increases tournament costs in terms of both troops and goods used. that only makes fights easier in regular, non tournament encounters. “
Sorry I don't have the link but it is in the forums.
Unlike you I hate the fighting. It bores me to tears. I read the news or work on a recipe when fighting so I have something to do.
It does get better when you get to upgrade some of the troops to level 2. I'm all the way to chapter 4

 

lihwei9123

Seeker
Be careful researching squad sizes. Skip the optional ones. They have a negative impact on battles.
" Every squad size up grade increase the complexity of enemy troops. Some squad size upgrades can be skipped. Nothing “also keep in mind that elvenar doesn't tell people that unlocking bigger squad sizes increases tournament costs in terms of both troops and goods used. that only makes fights easier in regular, non tournament encounters. “
Sorry I don't have the link but it is in the forums.
Unlike you I hate the fighting. It bores me to tears. I read the news or work on a recipe when fighting so I have something to do.
It does get better when you get to upgrade some of the troops to level 2. I'm all the way to chapter 4

For the tournaments, i don't notice about the squadsize research but honestly, when doing the 5 or 6th star tournament encounters if you choose to fight the squadsize may seem to be insanely overwhelming, in that moment you will have a squadsize ratio of 1:1.5~2.5 or even up to 3 compared to enemy squadsize. But trust me, skipping the optional squadsize upgrades makes you very difficult to fight if you like to conquer provinces to continue to advance to a higher age, instead you will be highly relying your goods productions to buy those provinces, and you will also use up a lot of goods to cater the tournament encounters, but for me i will try to fight first, unless i really can't win in a fight, i will not use any goods to buy those encounters.
This is just my opinion only, if you're happy to use your goods there is no matter with it :)
 

Pauly7

Magus
For the tournaments, i don't notice about the squadsize research but honestly, when doing the 5 or 6th star tournament encounters if you choose to fight the squadsize may seem to be insanely overwhelming, in that moment you will have a squadsize ratio of 1:1.5~2.5 or even up to 3 compared to enemy squadsize. But trust me, skipping the optional squadsize upgrades makes you very difficult to fight if you like to conquer provinces to continue to advance to a higher age, instead you will be highly relying your goods productions to buy those provinces, and you will also use up a lot of goods to cater the tournament encounters, but for me i will try to fight first, unless i really can't win in a fight, i will not use any goods to buy those encounters.
This is just my opinion only, if you're happy to use your goods there is no matter with it :)
There are a couple of arguments for increasing squad size, but it's fairly universally accepted that the game is harder to play the higher the squad size. It does make a lot of difference to tournaments and for most people that have progressed a certain way there is a lot more tournament fighting than province fighting.

I don't have the numbers on how much more difficult it gets with a higher squad size (someone else may be able to jump in there), but I would strongly advise anyone to never complete an optional squad size research unless you are really sure about what you are doing. Remember, you can't undo one that you've done, but if you wish to you can always come back at a later date to do them.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
For the tournaments, i don't notice about the squadsize research but honestly, when doing the 5 or 6th star tournament encounters if you choose to fight the squadsize may seem to be insanely overwhelming, in that moment you will have a squadsize ratio of 1:1.5~2.5 or even up to 3 compared to enemy squadsize. But trust me, skipping the optional squadsize upgrades makes you very difficult to fight if you like to conquer provinces to continue to advance to a higher age, instead you will be highly relying your goods productions to buy those provinces, and you will also use up a lot of goods to cater the tournament encounters, but for me i will try to fight first, unless i really can't win in a fight, i will not use any goods to buy those encounters.
This is just my opinion only, if you're happy to use your goods there is no matter with it :)
The SS in the tournaments is province level * 5%.

The difficulty is always the same no matter what your SS is, the difference are the losses
10% losses of 1000 is less than 10% losses of 1500,
This while your unit production capacity (excluding wonders) is the same. so with a smaller SS with the same production capacity of units you get more bang for the buck.

This is why it's often advised to skip SS research, as a result of this you can only cater on the world map as you are way to weak to battle there with those researches still locked. but later in game you can scout 1-2 provinces a week at most, while fighting up to 2000 battles a week in the tournament. the difference cannot be made up

To the developers.
Forgive me sounding frustrated & fed up; I am. I am not playing this game just to build and trade, I want to battle in the spire, join in the tournaments and complete provinces... I don't mind a challenge, but I DO mind total annihilation after training troops for 3 days and losing them all to one line up whatever combination I use and doing manual. Negotiating is there, and that's great otherwise we'd never progress.

I've read as much as I can find on this, and I am not alone at Ch 3 considering throwing in the towel. I'm getting bored with persisting and trying different tactics.

How do I win battles? How have people done this before I joined? Sort this out, please. I'm close to quitting. The troops are too weak, there's no incentive to keep going. I need troops to conquer provs to get KP, I need KP to research squad sizes (that don't make a dot of difference) to help conquer proves to get KP to research more troop things, to conquer provs.........................
You have to give us way more context to have us give a proper advise or opinion. there are so many factors in play if you can or can't win.
there is always a limit in what is possible, No matter if I am Rambo himself or not, If I go up agains the NATO armies all by myself I might hurt them a little but I will never defeat them nor stay alive.
Without context it might be possible that you are trying to reach further than you should in game essentially overextending yourself at that point at which point it makes sense you can't win, but if thats the case we don't know without more information.
 
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DeletedUser4149

Guest
This is why it's often advised to skip SS research
it's too bad elvenar didn't share that info w/ us a long time ago when i started.
i can't relock them and don't want to start over.
i can find a new game to play though.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
The rules changed halfway the game, ~just before dragons and sorcerers, when I already finished woodelves.
We just deal with it and adapt.
I agree that rule changes halfway through suck, but sometimes things have to change to make the game better (not saying in this case ther would not have been other options) but anyway, by now it hardly matters any more if you did the early ones or not. I am rather certain (without actually doing the math) that playing Chapter 16 will increase your SS just as much as all those early SS upgrades together. And you get no real benefit from playing that chapter...so there is always a choice.
 

Lady Croft

Adventurer
Thanks all for replying. I am now in Fairies and understand a lot more than when I typed the thread..
That said, I cannot see the point of the buff statues and an armourer or feeding the fire phoenix when I still get annihilated by the Frog Prince. I saved them all up and I placed 3 Enlightened light Range ones, a dw armourer, and 2 Unleashed Unit ones.
I. am. fuming. I now have no troops left and I wasted all my goods. Sometimes being determind to do something should be viewed the same as 'what success will I have at surviving a jump off the Empire State Building?' But, I really didn't want to give up ..!!
I virtually leave the Spire alone and only go so far until it becomes an obvious waste of goods or troops, but every now & then I 'go for it' with the help of these buffs. Either my city is broken or Inno just don't want us to enjoy the game. I'm going to take a month off and see if I miss it... :)
Have 'fun' folks. :)
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Thanks all for replying. I am now in Fairies and understand a lot more than when I typed the thread..
That said, I cannot see the point of the buff statues and an armourer or feeding the fire phoenix when I still get annihilated by the Frog Prince. I saved them all up and I placed 3 Enlightened light Range ones, a dw armourer, and 2 Unleashed Unit ones.
I. am. fuming. I now have no troops left and I wasted all my goods. Sometimes being determind to do something should be viewed the same as 'what success will I have at surviving a jump off the Empire State Building?' But, I really didn't want to give up ..!!
I virtually leave the Spire alone and only go so far until it becomes an obvious waste of goods or troops, but every now & then I 'go for it' with the help of these buffs. Either my city is broken or Inno just don't want us to enjoy the game. I'm going to take a month off and see if I miss it... :)
Have 'fun' folks. :)
Sounds a lot like you are using the wrong troops. but we can´t help you with that if you don´t post an actual battle screen shot.

Anyway ELR are not buildings that help you much with beating Frogs, MMMs would do that. UUU and DA of course help with every battle.
 

Lady Croft

Adventurer
I try to fight LR & Mages with either LM or HR, then move along the line going by the notion that each troop type is good against the 2 to its left (our right). I look at the number of crossed swords when deciding on the light end or the heavy end; sometimes heavy ranged will be needed rather than light melee. Lately the enemy line-ups have been so diverse that it doesn't matter what I put in I die. What I put in to deal with one 'half', gets destroyed by the other.
I meant 'frog', to mean the Frog Prince chest in the Spire, not actually the frog troops, which, I'm just realizing, I haven't seen in a while... and as it was so long ago that I had a battle with the freant frogs that I really can't recall what I tried against them, tho as you say, probably mages what with them being HR.
Squad sizes are of course a factor, and in the tourneys I don't even bother to attempt a 3 star battle; I may as well just barter it and be done with it. I've never known a game where you have to use buff buildings or you won't get anywhere. Once I'm finished with Orcs, I'll have another rethink as to taking my time and money elsewhere...
Happy gaming, :)
 

Far Reach

Soothsayer
I try to fight LR & Mages with either LM or HR, then move along the line going by the notion that each troop type is good against the 2 to its left (our right). I look at the number of crossed swords when deciding on the light end or the heavy end; sometimes heavy ranged will be needed rather than light melee. Lately the enemy line-ups have been so diverse that it doesn't matter what I put in I die. What I put in to deal with one 'half', gets destroyed by the other.
As Gargon mentions above, it helps to have specific details of a battle (ideal a screen shot) to comment on. That said we can still make some suggestions.

Ranged attacks are particularly powerful in fighting, and many of us focus primarily on LR, mages and HR. The aim is usually to take out the most dangerous enemy troops before they get a chance to do much (or often any) damage against us. Long range troops are usually best for this, (although there are occasional exceptions) which makes the preferred mages Blossom Mages (from the Merc Camp) or Priests (from the Human Barracks). For HR, Faerient Frogs (Merc Camp) and Mortars (from the Human Barracks) have much longer range than the other choices. Other considerations are initiative (ideally we want our troops to act first) and the ability to weaken the defence of enemies (which helps to wipe them out quicker).

Against a combination of LR & Mages, HR is a dangerous option. Enemy mages will act before your HR and are strong against it. The crossed swords recommend LM, but this often won't work well - particularly if your LM can't reach the enemy very quickly (e.g. because of obstacles) and/or there are other enemy troops to come into play. LR against a mixture of LR & Mages is a reasonable option though. If the enemy has supporting LM or HR too, then you could add some HR yourself. You'd naturally use this to initially target the LM/HR (which are dangerous to your LR) and use the LR to start off with the enemy mages (which are a serious threat to your HR).
 

Enneth

Alchemist
Battling sucks almost all the time until chapter 11 or 12.

I play elves and chapter 12 is the first time Incan full clear spire. The first wing of spire is easy but after the first boss difficulty goes up way too fast.

But then inexplicably at chapter 11 you will stomp the pie out of it and it's free resources each week. Also it's terrible for catering after chapter 6 or 7 (although that's largely because there aren't good wonders for catering only players.)
 

Elryar

Seeker
I only fight in the Spire on the first level and only against the weaker enemies, because I auto resolve. I do spend a large amount of resources to get as close to the end as possible, but the only times I've reached the very end were with UUUs and Dwarven Armourers. I understand I could probably achieve more consistent success but I haven't put effort into learning how to do manual battles. Besides, I produce a lot of goods and I don't mind catering.