How many Ancient Wonders to build?

[DeletedUser7733]

It would be interesting to know how many AWs is too many as it's probably not possible to build them all as we would run out of space for other things. Is it better to pick only few that align to our strategy the most and level them up as much as we can or build many of them and have them at low levels? At this moment, I'm leaning more towards few wonders and level them up to get the most efficiency per square out of them. They need a lot of KPs to max them out so it's a very long term strategy to aim to max a lot of them out.

 

[m4rt1n]

I built them all except the Enar Embassy and Thrones of the high Men and started out getting them to level 6. In my own opinion they all help but I'm concentrating now on Mana, Seeds, and free Troops plus the troops bonuses. That means Endless Excavation and Tomb of Secrets are on the back list to upgrade in my world.

From info provided by @SoggyShorts to build and max every available wonder to level 30 will take up to 20 years, so I agree that priority is key, but I do add, that a wonder hitting level 6 becomes very helpful.

 

[Lelanya]

I am experiencing some deja vu here.
I recommend one per chapter, and my list is on Angel's prior post.

I assure you, you can find the room if you make judicious use of space, and certain game opportunities. Each Wonder serves a purpose. GA replaces a house and eventually becomes greater. The supply Wonders are helpful at the right time. In this manner they pay for the space they use.

Certain culture can replace, augment or create opportunities, also. Some give supplies at low chapters and mana or seeds at higher. These can be small and easily added in, to create the space for the Wonder you are planning to build. For example 3 orc nests are only 1 square short of the space required for Heroes' Forge. And you can always improve its production by leveling the Wonder while a new orc nest has to won or crafted. Same as far as Eldrasil's Sawmill and the Dragon Abbey.

Some culture, or research gives diamonds, and these can be used for Space Expansions. Space is one of the truly meaningful coins of this realm so get what you can.
Best of luck with this

 

[DeletedUser7733]

I'm thinking about focusing on four AWs and upgrade whichever one I need at the time. It still could be good to build the others but not upgrade them as it then gives flexibility to sell them whenever I need the space and rebuild them later. Especially, lower level ones are very easy to rebuild.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

TL;DR more low-level wonders beats fewer high level wonders.

Most wonders actually SAVE space even at level 1, so space should not be a reason for avoiding most wonders.

I've seen players post things like "I'd build the Endless excavation, but I don't have the space"
This is due to a lack of understanding how space should be measured.

The EE might be bigger than a workshop at some levels, but it is very rarely bigger than a workshop+the residence for the workshop+the culture for the work shop. Supplies per day per square of real space is the only logical comparison.

How many wonders you should build and which ones to put KP into are 2 different sides of 1 question.
Focusing on a handful can make sense for a few levels, but waiting on placing a level 1 wonder that is better than its non-wonder counterpart in your city does not.

Also, all wonders suffer from diminishing returns like
Level 1 is 6% bonus for 106%total
Level 2 is 6.5%bonus for 106.5%total

Clearly you get way more from level one than the increase to level 2

Likewise going from
Level 12 is 13.5% bonus for 113.5%total
Level 13 is 14% bonus for 114% total
That change is a 0.44% increase, and the 106 to 106.5 is a 0.47% Increase, and will cost you far fewer KP to go to level 2 than to level 13.

Basically your return on investment is best at low levels, provided the wonder is any good for your playstyle (see the other wonder thread for a list)

 

[DeletedUser7733]

Also, all wonders suffer from diminishing returns

Yes, they do. Each upgrade is more expensive than the previous one while the efficiency per square keeps rising with each upgrade. So it's a choice whether we want to use the space more efficiently or KPs.

I've read somewhere that 60 AW levels cover enough divine seeds production to get through Elementals and Amuni. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
So if I focus on four AWs that's 15 levels each AW. That sounds a lot while it could be easy to catch up on the levels by upgrading couple of lower level ones to get the seeds we need. Amuni needed huge settlement and now I have a lot of space that I don't want to permanently fill. So I'm trying to find a way how to go about it.

 

[Tiriake]

I have built all wonders except Amuni ones, but I will build those as well. I honestly can't say that I am missing something from my city because I have "spent too much "space on wonders. I think it depends on what you want from your city. How you balance/plan it. I have enough manufactories/workshops to produce what I need, same goes for residencies. My Amuni settlement was at max size, I have room for culture buildings, extra manufactories/workshops for events/FA's/challenges. I have finished every single event, challenge, participated in all FA's (no matter that I don't think it's worth the effort). Take part of tournament every week.
I'm happy with my city as I have enough room for what I need and want. Also I don't keep my wonders at level 1, I level them up when I can. I consider wonders as a long term play. Maybe they don't give all the high bonuses right away, but when you work on them...

 

[DeletedUser7733]

I have built all wonders except Amuni ones, but I will build those as well. I honestly can't say that I am missing something from my city because I have "spent too much "space on wonders. I think it depends on what you want from your city. How you balance/plan it. I have enough manufactories/workshops to produce what I need, same goes for residencies. My Amuni settlement was at max size, I have room for culture buildings, extra manufactories/workshops for events/FA's/challenges. I have finished every single event, challenge, participated in all FA's (no matter that I don't think it's worth the effort). Take part of tournament every week.
I'm happy with my city as I have enough room for what I need and want. Also I don't keep my wonders at level 1, I level them up when I can. I consider wonders as a long term play. Maybe they don't give all the high bonuses right away, but when you work on them...

Wow, that's impressive. I just need to decide whether I want to sell my current residences, workshops etc. I think I'll stick to them for now and see how it goes and pick few wonders. Thank you for letting us know that it works.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

Yes, they do. Each upgrade is more expensive than the previous one while the efficiency per square keeps rising with each upgrade. So it's a choice whether we want to use the space more efficiently or KP

That's the beauty of the "no brainer" wonders, they save you more space and more KP. Win win, no need to choose.
I mean if the "choice" is between upgrading 1 wonder 10 times to save 10 squares or upgrading 2 wonders 5 times to save 20 squares, its not really a choice

Upgrading 4 wonders to level 15 or 8 wonders to level 11 is about the same kp, and the 8 wonders will give you more seeds, more goods, more supplies, more pop, more everything while not costing you any more space, in fact if you pick some from the "no brainers" list then the 8 wonders will save space compared to 4 wonders.

That doesn't even factor in if you add military wonders in the space you save and use that military to do more tournament for more kp compounding your gains.

Yet another point in favour of adding more wonders:
Nerfs.
Imagine you spend 1,000s of KP to upgrade the BTG or Enars(while neglecting others)only to have inno introduce the Trading Post that crushes the BTG, and mana buildings each event that make the enar's pathetic by comparison. Personally I'm super happy my BTG is only at level 6 so I won't be sad to sell it this chapter.

 

[DeletedUser7733]

That's the beauty of the "no brainer" wonders, they save you more space and more KP. Win win, no need to choose.
I mean if the "choice" is between upgrading 1 wonder 10 times to save 10 squares or upgrading 2 wonders 5 times to save 20 squares, its not really a choice

Upgrading 4 wonders to level 15 or 8 wonders to level 11 is about the same kp, and the 8 wonders will give you more seeds, more goods, more supplies, more pop, more everything while not costing you any more space, in fact if you pick some from the "no brainers" list then the 8 wonders will save space compared to 4 wonders.

That doesn't even factor in if you add military wonders in the space you save and use that military to do more tournament for more kp compounding your gains.

Yet another point in favour of adding more wonders:
Nerfs.
Imagine you spend 1,000s of KP to upgrade the BTG or Enars(while neglecting others)only to have inno introduce the Trading Post that crushes the BTG, and mana buildings each event that make the enar's pathetic by comparison. Personally I'm super happy my BTG is only at level 6 so I won't be sad to sell it this chapter.

That's all good, I don't disagree, it's a good general outline, thank you for that. It still comes down to each individual situation. In my example, I'm not really sure whether I want to demolish chunk of my city and replace them with wonders that I don't like the look of or they don't give me much more than I already have. I've decided to build couple of AWs that give something that I don't already have enough of and the rest can have a temporary spot. Once I max them out, I'll think about building more. It's great to have this space that I can do anything with.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

Yup, I get it. Aside from not liking how some buildings look, it can be hard to replace things like workshops+residences that you've spent dozens of hours upgrading even if the wonder is better in every way.

It'd be hard for me to give mathematical advice to emotional options though, so I just go with facts

 

[Thezza]

What you could do is create 25 new villages,get them to a certan level, have NO AWs in these villages, but have 25 plus manufactories in each one maybe even over 50 in some!! Then create a FS with just those villages in, then donate all your kps to your main account's AWs. That way you could have ALL your AWS at lvl 30 except the 2 from Amuni which you may have only got to lvl 25 and 26 so far...
Of course that is cheating, and you shouldnt do it , but if you also spend thousands of diamonds on Premium buildings and Premium expansions then you will soon be no1 and Inno will do...er...em absolutely nothing !!!...

 

[DeletedUser9252]

I only need one. Because at that time i am technology locked (no enough provences to advanced scout). I want use kp points.
And the golden abussy gives me population, and i ned population.
But it is still in level 3, because i dont want it takes my relics. I need keep my high yield good production!
And if you accidentally sell anceint wonder, you get 0 back! It is 0, no matter how high level it is, and lost all benefits!
Level 1 to level 2, takes 9h to upgrade. Level1 marble to level 2 only takes 25min; level 1 workshop to level2 less 2h.
I dont like aw and mainhall upgrade, because mainhall upgarding suck too much population!
In the past, i ignored the mainhall to level 8 quest, and keep main hall as level 5 for a long time. Because I didn’t want to loose my population!

 

[Lelanya]

Lolol I did the same with my first city. Upgrading the Main gives more coin, and is used to figure out certain Wonder effects. Your Golden Abyss is based on working population, so it helps with that. Also you cannot pay for some research if your Main doesn't have enough capacity, so at some point, you must increase it

 

[DeletedUser8632]

I only need one. Because at that time i am technology locked (no enough provences to advanced scout). I want use kp points.
And the golden abussy gives me population, and i ned population.
But it is still in level 3, because i dont want it takes my relics. I need keep my high yield good production!
And if you accidentally sell anceint wonder, you get 0 back! It is 0, no matter how high level it is, and lost all benefits!
Level 1 to level 2, takes 9h to upgrade. Level1 marble to level 2 only takes 25min; level 1 workshop to level2 less 2h.
I dont like aw and mainhall upgrade, because mainhall upgarding suck too much population!
In the past, i ignored the mainhall to level 8 quest, and keep main hall as level 5 for a long time. Because I didn’t want to loose my population!

Well, I think we can all agree that accidentally deleting an AW is not a good thing. Probably.

On a serious note, you are not doing yourself a favor by not upgrading your Main Hall. A lot of benefits are based on your level of the main hall, including the coins and supplies you get from neighbour visits and the efficiency of some instant spells. The higher in chapters you get, the more you will also be in situations where you need a sudden burst of coins or supplies (building guest race buildings always puts a huge dent into my savings) and a low Main Hall will make that difficult.

 

[DeletedUser9252]

Well, I think we can all agree that accidentally deleting an AW is not a good thing. Probably.

On a serious note, you are not doing yourself a favor by not upgrading your Main Hall. A lot of benefits are based on your level of the main hall, including the coins and supplies you get from neighbour visits and the efficiency of some instant spells. The higher in chapters you get, the more you will also be in situations where you need a sudden burst of coins or supplies (building guest race buildings always puts a huge dent into my savings) and a low Main Hall will make that difficult.

I know in later chapter, upgrading main hall is necessary. But i mean in early chapter, at that time, i didnt need that many coins and supply.