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How does the Spire work for a FS ?

  • Thread starter Deleted member 10929
  • Start date

Deleted member 10929

Guest
I'm wondering how much it would take to move the global FS win up just one step on the ladder ?

Say if you 2 steps away from the next FS prize, what will it take from how many players to get those two steps more ?

Is it depended on how many that enters the Spire or is there just a base calc on the sum score ?
 

Pauly7

Magus
I've never actually looked that closely (so others will clarify), but I think the number of points required between each stage increase as you go upwards.

For example, reaching the top requires 1,330 points. Reaching the penultimate step requires 1,080 points. It therefore takes a combined 150 points to take that final waypoint. Individually, players get 5 points for each completed section of 4 waypoints, plus one extra point for reaching the top of each of the three levels. So in order to complete that final waypoint, all 25 people would have to do one section, plus one extra encounter. There's a hundred ways to skin this cat though. 3 people completing the whole spire would take 189 points, so it could be covered by just 3 people.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
As @Pauly7 said there is not 1 way to do it. You´ll have to do the math every time for yourself depending on circumstances.
he explained how many points you get, you need to look up how many points you need for the next step you want to take (you see that info in the game).
The influencing factors will be: How many towns do you have in the FS? Or better how many of them play the spire at all? how many towns have already finished the spire by the time you are looking? That gives you the number of people that can potentially contribute more points.
If you devide number of points until next goal by 5 (or 5.25 if you want to be exact and include the extra point for level bosses) you get the number of gates that need to be opened until the next goal. Divide this number by the number of potential contributors and you get the number of gates each of the contributors has to open :)
 

SoggyShorts

Necromancer
When we decided to become a Gold Spire FS I found that in all of my fellowships making the rule that everyone must complete 2 floors quickly resulted in something like the following:

15x At the top *63=945
9x At the second floor *42 =378
1x Someone had RL issue *21=21
-------
1344

For every player that you are short, you need 2 of those second-floor players to go all the way to compensate.
 

Deleted member 10929

Guest
Thank you @Pauly7 :)

I can see that my writings might not have been completely clear ;-)

I should have put in the actual level. We're just two doors away from the Laboratory FS point which gives 75 diamonds. I can see that that's 62 points - And that's a lot, when you only get 1 point per chest and 2 for the door chest.

Also after Laboratory level it gets way more expensive for the same prizes. So the only reason for doing more of that would be to go top with it all.

We're 19 this time playing the Spire. Most are under 1st Boss and just above, one or two more doors.

It's not that we're a Spire team, so it's not for gold or anything like that, but if we were just a few players away from getting that Laboratory level, it would be worth putting some thinking into ;-) We came a little closer last Spire round.

And then we end up how to play the Spire. I do as you, convince, and then fight tournament. It works just fine. But that's of course because my goods productions match that task, to some degree. But if other's don't then it's not that easy.
 

Deleted member 10929

Guest
When we decided to become a Gold Spire FS I found that in all of my fellowships making the rule that everyone must complete 2 floors quickly resulted in something like the following:

15x At the top *63=945
9x At the second floor *42 =378
1x Someone had RL issue *21=21
-------
1344

For every player that you are short, you need 2 of those second-floor players to go all the way to compensate.
Hmm, that's seams like a tough deal going to the top ;)

That we cannot do. but could we just get the last two doors/steps, so we got the Laboratory prizes. It's annoying looking at 50 points missing. But again they can be hard to get.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
With those numbers it´s rather simple: you need to open 12 more gates. Divide them up any way you like. 12 people 1 gate, 6 people 2 gates ... Of course in the end you may be a point above or below (depending on people not being exactly at gates or having a boss next etc), so if you want to play it safe say 13 more gates.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Also from a motivational standpoint it makes most sense to push the people at the bottom of the spire to do more (they will gain additional rewards with every single gate and no caveats!) than people that already are above the purple team rewards meter (they will gain no additional rewards for additional gates they do themselves, but only get higher rewards if everybody else does more as well).
Also people that consistently score above the purple meter may be looking into a change of FS where they can gain the rewards they qualify for. So it may not be good to have to big a spread in your FS as to how high people go in the spire...
 

Melianora

Alchemist
Those that are struggling can be helped along with trades. We usually ask fellows about goods they might be missing and we can share for them to climb higher. After all the Spire is a complete team effort.

Can take a while until everyone gets the diamond glint in their eyes. There also some good instruction videos on how to convince, should one have trouble fighting or run out of troops.
 

Pauly7

Magus
Also after Laboratory level it gets way more expensive for the same prizes. So the only reason for doing more of that would be to go top with it all.
I don't think that's true in most people's opinions. Each extra level beyond the silver mark gives lots of extra time boosters and CCs. In fact you will receive the maximum amount of these by only reaching the penultimate crystal... So at some point that's something to aim for when you know you're not ready to go all the way up. Every different crystal passed is well worth the effort.
 

Deleted member 10929

Guest
Also from a motivational standpoint it makes most sense to push the people at the bottom of the spire to do more (they will gain additional rewards with every single gate and no caveats!) than people that already are above the purple team rewards meter (they will gain no additional rewards for additional gates they do themselves, but only get higher rewards if everybody else does more as well).
Also people that consistently score above the purple meter may be looking into a change of FS where they can gain the rewards they qualify for. So it may not be good to have to big a spread in your FS as to how high people go in the spire...
I have thought that exact same thing, that it's the lowest players that need to do a little more, because it's a lot cheaper and easier for them to bring the point to the pile :)

Those that are struggling can be helped along with trades. We usually ask fellows about goods they might be missing and we can share for them to climb higher. After all the Spire is a complete team effort.

Can take a while until everyone gets the diamond glint in their eyes. There also some good instruction videos on how to convince, should one have trouble fighting or run out of troops.
Yes it is. It's a little like FA. It needs to be coordinated and the FS needs to work together to reach the goal :)

To me convincing is not a problem, and i could also tell other players how it's done. But you need to have a sense of logic and pay attention, otherwise you lose a lot of diamonds. The worst case actually is to hit 4 out of 5 in the first round. I'd rather just have 1. It gives me something to work with, the other is just pure luck getting that last one ;-)
 

Deleted member 10929

Guest
I don't think that's true in most people's opinions. Each extra level beyond the silver mark gives lots of extra time boosters and CCs. In fact you will receive the maximum amount of these by only reaching the penultimate crystal... So at some point that's something to aim for when you know you're not ready to go all the way up. Every different crystal passed is well worth the effort.
Yes, but that's only if we get to that next pay-out point. If we don't it's way more expensive getting 500 fragments at that level. The chest themselves are a waste of goods. It only makes sense if we reach the bonus point where the whole FS wins another prize.
 

Wibbly Woo

Spellcaster
And then we end up how to play the Spire. I do as you, convince, and then fight tournament. It works just fine. But that's of course because my goods productions match that task, to some degree. But if other's don't then it's not that easy.
I find that interesting, as my experience is the opposite: get a couple of suitable booster buildings down, and fighting the spire seems to be relatively easy, if I have the troops. Time boosters are a big help with this.

Negotiation, on the other hand, has a tendency to turn into a crapshoot for me at the top of the High Halls.

Comparatively, the tournament starts with “fight the ridiculously easy provinces” before transitioning into negotiation once the diffic starts ramping up.
 
I find that interesting, as my experience is the opposite: get a couple of suitable booster buildings down, and fighting the spire seems to be relatively easy, if I have the troops. Time boosters are a big help with this.

Negotiation, on the other hand, has a tendency to turn into a crapshoot for me at the top of the High Halls.

Comparatively, the tournament starts with “fight the ridiculously easy provinces” before transitioning into negotiation once the diffic starts ramping up.
I fight tourney and cater spire too, only bc my troop levels can't handle fighting both (yet). Spire squad sizes jump to higher numbers much faster than tourney so my troops stretch further staying out of spire for now. High Halls is still doable with logic/catering but Lab is a total crap shoot for sure, more luck than skill. In my bigger city, I have switched to catering up to Lab, then fighting the lab to save resources. Someone said in one of the forums that tourney province 15* is about equivalent to top of the spire. So to fight the Lab, you need to be able to fight equiv of about 16 more tourney province 15*'s.
 

SoggyShorts

Necromancer
my experience is the opposite
I'm with you because for me speed is the most important factor.
I use 1xDA/ELR/MMM and blast through the whole Spire in one shot using timers, takes about 15 minutes and all autofight.
In the tournament, if I wipe (due to terrain or difficulty) I simply cater with one click, 100% success rate- no minigame to worry about.
 

Wibbly Woo

Spellcaster
Someone said in one of the forums that tourney province 15* is about equivalent to top of the spire. So to fight the Lab, you need to be able to fight equiv of about 16 more tourney province 15*'s.
I suspect that is going to depend on chapter, due to the way enemy troop star ratings work. This is a large part of the “chapter 4 spire runner” city design, as I understand it, and it certainly seems to match up with what i am seeing.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
I can´t say what tourney province is similar to the last spire boss. All I can say is that it is rather easy in comparison to a high tourney score. I never put buildings in for the spire (other than feeding the firebird), but since I put buildings in for the tourney, i have them occasionally for parts of the spire, but I don´t bother time boosting the spire just for the building use. What I do is, I fight the easy fights, either with good troops (if I expect close to 0 losses, or with cannon fodder, which is good enough to win fights and saves my good troops for the tourney) and I convince the more complicated fights, because what else would I be using those sentient goods for? So it always works out one way or another to not lose anything of importance in the spire.
The tourney is so much more difficult in my case (on normal weeks when I score low I do around 40 provinces), that is where i need to put my boosters and good troops :) And still the losses in 1 province are probably higher than the entire spire costs me. That makes me really enjoy the spire, I can play and fool around and experiment with lots of different things and still be fine (yes I even use LM troops there lol) :)
 

Pauly7

Magus
High Halls is still doable with logic/catering but Lab is a total crap shoot for sure, more luck than skill.
It involves luck for sure, but it's a numbers game. Whilst the luck of the draw can sting you, on average you can plan for roughly what resources you are going to need. I rarely get short of anything negotiating all the way through the spire. Coins and supplies can temporarily almost bottom out, but there's always plenty more coming.
 

Deleted member 10929

Guest
Thank you all :)

As my troops production now is at a level where it supports my needs for tournament and still leaves some, then i will have a look at using them for fighting the easy fights in the Spire, as @Gargon667 :)

But what about the 2 wave fights, isn't these a lot harder than doing a tournament fight ?