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Answered How does the battle system work?

30158729

Alchemist
Can someone please explain the calculations that determine the outcome of a battle?

I had a fight today that made me realize I have no idea how it works. The fight was this one

Battle1.png


As you can see its 5 level 2 Mortars vs 6 light ranged/melee units that are mostly level one.

Here are the stats of units involved.

Battle3.png
Battle2.png
Battle4.png
Battle5.png


This was a tournament fight and the squad sizes were 30 for me and 38 for my opponent. From this it is completely incomprehensible how i lost the fight. My Mortar has over 14000 health and between 2950 and 5478 attack along with the boosts which are + 60% damage dealt to light melee with a 40% reduction in damage taken. As well as +70% damage dealt to light ranged with a reduction in damage taken of 50%. Every shot from my Mortar should be eliminating one squad as the minimum attack rating, even without bonuses, is more than enough.

So im left wondering, how on earth are battles decided? As it clearly does not matter what the stats of the units involved are.
 
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Hekata

Shaman
Personally I have no idea on the maths behind it all and I'm sure some of those players very much invested in fighting and the mechanics behind it all will come shortly with detailed explanations (followed by another one with slightly different ones and then a huge convo will issue, can't wait those can be fun to read :D ), but the one thing that comes to mind is that the terrain might be the reason. I read once a post form a player complaining that he kept losing a battle he should have won over and over again and then he finally switched to manual fighting and discovered that his troops kept being stuck behind some obstacles making them easy targets. Or something along those lines. Anyway that's just a thought, I'm sure some more versed in it all will show up shortly.
 

m4rt1n

Mentor
I am took aback by the result and personally in this situation would have expected to have come out with a win and 4+ units returned.

I would have autofight this one with 5 Mortars myself so am puzzled. :rolleyes:

Even more so due to the fact that terrain doesn't really matter when using 5 Mortars. o_O
 

30158729

Alchemist
I have a little time so lets do some thinking for this.

I have 5 Mortars, so 71690 health. With the bonus the Mortar gets against these units the highest attack value of my opponents was 600. So 71690/600 = 119 but as there are only 2 Ancient Orcs this is way below the number the actual fight would have taken. 120/6 = 20 so somehow this fight lasted at least 20 rounds. The Mortar has a range of 8 squares and is not blocked by the terrain. There is no way for my opponents units to hit and run so every single time they attack they are in range of my units. Which means that for more than 20 entire rounds my units chose not to attack, that is bizarre.

Now, somehow the opponent is left with Ancient Orcs squads that were attacked but not eliminated. As mentioned above, the minimum attack rating of the Mortar is 2950 which is more than enough to one shot anything, however with the bonuses this increases to 4720 when attacking light melee and 5015 when attacking light ranged . So how do we get this scenario of squads with 2812 health taking 4720 damage and having 7/19ths and 11/19ths left. This is also bizarre.

Sadly I beat the fight with Orc Strategists as I was doing some tournament rounds and didnt think to get the screenshots of what units I lost when I won although I remember it was way more than I would expect to lose. Im going to be keeping an eye out in future fights to see if something like this happens again as it really does suggest some fighting mechanic that is unknown.
 

DeletedUser3571

Guest
The first thing that comes to mind is that you are using the stats for your mortar at a full squad and not the stats it has in the battle
 

DeletedUser4149

Guest
The first thing that comes to mind is that you are using the stats for your mortar at a full squad and not the stats it has in the battle
i was surprised too 'till i read this comment. your mortars' stats are less than those posted because the province you fought in scaled down the squad sizes for both sides and elvenar's crappy info showed your troops as they'd be as full squads, not the partial squads used in this tournament province. they probably showed the correct stats for the number of troops in the enemy squad.

i assume this was round 3 to 5 because you were outnumbered both in number of squads and troops per squad. usually, you'd still win but i think a few things gave you bad luck, like no barriers to slow down advancing troops, the fact that the computer will stupidly overkill units and waste potential damage when you let it control your units by autofighting, and that longer range almost always means less damage. long range mortars do less damage than medium range elven golems and much less damage than melee units, like orcs.

i'd blame elvenar's misinformation for now and try to get yourself more familiar w/ combat by manually fighting and/or watching manual fights by clicking on the 'finish fight automatically option'. then you can fight more instinctively and you'll realize just how much harder fights get as rounds progress.

also keep in mind that elvenar doesn't tell people that unlocking bigger squad sizes increases tournament costs in terms of both troops and goods used. that only makes fights easier in regular, non tournament encounters.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
The numbers you posted are off! The reason is: you got your Cannon info for your real squad (like it would be in a province fight), while the info for your enemies is that for the tourney encounter squads which is tiny.
However the fight takes place in the tourney and you are not fighting with your real squad size, but with the reduced tourney squad size. The outcome depends highly on what round of tourney it was (In round 1 or 2 you would have probably won, the higher the round the more likely you will loose, because enemey squads grow compared to your own) I just saw others have mentioned the same thing in different ways.

You have 0 attack bonus for your troops (no fire bird! and no Temple of the Toads (available in chapter 11), which means this tourney will be very hard for you, even relatively speaking low rounds/provinces will make you loose, this here is the best example for it.

Geography is not killing you as some suggested (using Cannons you cannot be hindered), but it is also not helping you obviously.

Even if you had the numbers for your tourney squad size you would probably expect to win, because of the matchup of HR against LM/LR, however Cannons are not exactly the best HR unit and in this case the fight will most likely go as follows: Enemy starts: all 4 archers will shoot you, the Orcs move forward. Then you shoot with already decimated cannons at the Archers (depends on what round of the tourney you are how often your decimated cannons have to shoot a stack of archers, but a minimum of 2 more likely 3 times, which means you only kill one stack and a half). 2nd round is even worse for you: Now you get shot by 2.5 stacks of archers and then 2 stacks of Orcs which are now also in range. by now all your cannons are either rather damaged or some of them are gone entirely. So you are left shooting some archers with maybe 3 or so cannons taking out another 1.5 stacks of archers. From now on it´s downhill all of them get to attack you first. While you are busy taking out the archers the Orcs kill you and when you have finally finished the Archers you start working on the Orcs, but they have by now such an advantage in numbers they kill you before you can kill them...

Why Orc Startegists win: They are far better against Archers than cannons, they take the initial hits much better and kill them off much faster so they can start working on killing Orcs earlier. Also they have strike back which kills a couple extra enemies (if lucky and the Archers get into your range, even the ranged ones).
 

Gargon667

Mentor
if you are on a PC you can actually watch what happens next time: go into the fight using the manual option, then click finish battle automatically and watch what goes on... it is a very good way to understand battles better I find :)
 

rock stream

Conjurer
Is the Battle Simulator still valid?
 
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AstralSoul

Illusionist
Personally I have no idea on the maths behind it all and I'm sure some of those players very much invested in fighting and the mechanics behind it all will come shortly with detailed explanations (followed by another one with slightly different ones and then a huge convo will issue, can't wait those can be fun to read :D ), but the one thing that comes to mind is that the terrain might be the reason. I read once a post form a player complaining that he kept losing a battle he should have won over and over again and then he finally switched to manual fighting and discovered that his troops kept being stuck behind some obstacles making them easy targets. Or something along those lines. Anyway that's just a thought, I'm sure some more versed in it all will show up shortly.
Yup, I've been there. Now, if I lose a battle I shouldn't, I carter it as I assume I have junk right in front of my troops.