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How can we make the forum more attractive?

Alcaro

Necromancer
Hi guys,
I am one of the very few who are visiting the forum(s) regularly. If you check the various threads you will notice that pretty much are the same persons, sometimes a new (very shy) one.
IMHO the forums aren't appealing to new players and if I am not wrong, the App players are rarely accessing the forum and when they do, they do it mostly when they can't login or encounter some other problem.
I have many fellows who are reluctant to even make an account in the forum. They read some threads that are important to them but they never comment, never share their opinion(s).
Do you have any idea why aren't attractive? Do any of you have ideas how we could revive the forums?
 

Herodite

Forum mod extraordinaire
Elvenar Team
I will keep a keen eye on this....;)
 

Gargon667

Mentor
I guess the main reason is that the forum isn´t necessary at all for playing the game. I bet most elvenar players don´t even know that forums even exist.

If Inno wanted more people they could somewhat incorporate them into the game. Like handing out ingame rewards for things like joining the forum, posting there etc.

Say a 50 diamond reward for joining the forum. Another 50 for posting once. Maybe even a monthly 10 diamonds for posting?

An alternative would be to have a thing like using the message/like/point leaderboard from the forum and give special little reward buildings for reaching certain milestones.... like a 1x1 for 10 (posts/likes) a 2x1 for 50 a 2x2 for 100 a 2x3 for 500 and a 3x3 for 1000. That should people busy for a while, but of course those buildings would have to be very strong and much better than anything people get from events etc, otherwise they aren´t worth the effort...
Could even be some kind of set buildings for 2 differnt sets ... People always have this OCD thing about completing sets :D
The sages set keeping track of the posts and the socialite set for keeping track of likes :)

That way towns become an advertisement for the forums, when newbies come visiting and see the powerful buildings there.

Just two thoughts how rewards could be used. Not saying that´s the only option.
 

Turing

Bard
Organising things in life we've always found that offering free food is the key - an event with a free BBQ will get many times the attendance of one without every time. Admittedly this concept might not transfer so well to the forum. :rolleyes:

I think Gargon covered most of it. The other thing that always struck me about this forum, was the fact it is shattered into multiple entirely separate fora (en, us, beta, and all the other languages). I was quite active on the forum for another game once, which was heavily used: but that had one forum for the entire game. They operated it entirely in English, which has obvious disadvantages for other languages. But there's no reason that the languages could not have been separated as sections within one forum - giving much more visibility to each other, and the option for people to read posts in other languages they understand.

By separating the forum into many, it has spread the activity out, meaning each sees little activity - which gives users little reason to return to the forum. Activity begets activity, just like in a FS. If they had been one they would seem more active and I'm sure the activity in that one would have been more than the sum of the activity in all the current fora.
 

Pauly7

Magus
I'm no expert, but I'm guessing it's much the same with all games and actually not many people come to forums. Mostly people just play the game. I've played some mobile games for a while and never visited any of their forums. Not sure if they have them. Maybe. Probably. I've never asked.

So it could be about awareness and if that's the case then more in-game messages referring to the forums may help things slightly.

The best thing Inno can do to increase forum traffic is to do something really stupid that annoys all the players. That brings people to the forum in droves!
 

Alcaro

Necromancer
lol @Pauly7 , no, please no, the last thing I had in my mind was something really stupid to be done by Inno. They can do that without being pushed :D :D
I prefer the part where players are rewarded. Incentives always worked like a charm.
@Gargon667 had some great ideas. Starting from one of his ideas, I think at a set building (with 3-5 TINY pieces) which can be acquired solely by posting in Forum Meaningful Comments or for some activities - also in Forum - but without spamming! That would be helpful for "young" players and a reason for pride for "old(er)" players. Yes, yes, I know, some of you don't care about ranks, about points ... bla bla bla ... I do not buy that. We all are proud of something. If it's not for a high rank, maybe it's for a high place in tournament, or being in a great FS, or having a beautiful city. Having a beautiful set with good stats it's a reason to be proud. When I have applicants, I always check their city. If I see buildings from latest events it means they are active. If I would see that particular set, it means they are alive, reading and being aware of the news.
@Turing - u are right, having just one forum but with X Sections for other Languages than English (as many as other realms exist) would be a better way to share information and knowledge. For ex. I am from Romania but I can't post in the Romanian forum because I do not have a city in Ro servers (and I do not intend to start one) but, for sure I would be active in a Romanian Section if it would be part from a Big Forum.
 

Pauly7

Magus
When I have applicants, I always check their city. If I see buildings from latest events it means they are active. If I would see that particular set, it means they are alive, reading and being aware of the news.
I used to do that quite a bit, but it's a laborious process, plus it won't catch everyone. For example, if you looked at my city you wouldn't see any buildings from the most recent event. I did build the Triumph of the Tides, but I think that's the only new event building I've placed in the past year or so.
 

Alcaro

Necromancer
I used to do that quite a bit, but it's a laborious process, plus it won't catch everyone. For example, if you looked at my city you wouldn't see any buildings from the most recent event. I did build the Triumph of the Tides, but I think that's the only new event building I've placed in the past year or so.
It's designers' job to make a shiny, colorful, sparkling set. No more brown, dead leaves green or other faded colors. It can also have tall buildings like those columns from FA. There are many ways to make such a tiny set very visible. Where's will there's a way too ;)
 

SkyRider99

Mentor
Do you have any idea why aren't attractive? Do any of you have ideas how we could revive the forums?

Good questions. The words, "any idea", opens the door to thoughts without fear or prejudice. When I first joined the forum I found my posts were regularly criticised by one or two more experienced members who seemed to think they had a mandate to belittle newcomers. I quickly discovered how to add certain members to an 'ignore' list, which made the whole activity more enjoyable.

So my "idea" would be to have a separate section that is only open to Novices. That way they could participate and have a more friendly exchange of their thoughts and ideas, before subsequently advancing to the more robust discussions. I would envisage that Moderators would have access to this Novice-only section, so that questions could be answered where necessary, and some guidance to information provided.

And perhaps advertising the 'ignore' feature may also make the forum process less intimidating. Retaining existing forum members is perhaps as beneficial as attracting new Novices.

That's my $0.02 worth anyway :)
 

Stephen1

Spellcaster
How about when people have their comments liked by another forum user they earn a raffle ticket to spend. 1 ticket will give them a random prize from previous events (including a chance at set pieces and bases for evolving buildings) while 10 tickets (exact number to be determined) will give the user a building of their choice.
 

sunrae

Soothsayer
All these ideas are great ! To have more players in the forum would really help with recruiting which most fs I know struggle with. I agree with @Pauly7 we do need more in game messages about it. Starting out I played for ages before I even realised there was a forum and I learned so much from it when I did.
I think more people read it than comment so some small special rewards might encourage that.
 

DeletedUser6472

Guest
No rewards in the world would make people to post on this forum, knowing that they will be attacked and shredded to pieces by regulars here, just saying... As I mentioned before, this is your own doing, the result of years and years of snobbish behaviour towards newcomers to the forum; even experienced players get the same treatment here as novices to the game. This is the most unfriendly forum in Elvenar.
 

Stucon

Illusionist
Some really good ideas here.
I have used more likes on this thread than all others for weeks (probably). can I have a reward please
 

Alcaro

Necromancer
Good questions. The words, "any idea", opens the door to thoughts without fear or prejudice. When I first joined the forum I found my posts were regularly criticised by one or two more experienced members who seemed to think they had a mandate to belittle newcomers. I quickly discovered how to add certain members to an 'ignore' list, which made the whole activity more enjoyable.

You are right, I remember when I was "little", I was also patronized by some omniscient players but I didn't accept their behaviour, I said what I had to say and didn't let anyone to belittle me :D . I guess I have a thick skin :p

No rewards in the world would make people to post on this forum, knowing that they will be attacked and shredded to pieces by regulars here, just saying... As I mentioned before, this is your own doing, the result of years and years of snobbish behaviour towards newcomers to the forum; even experienced players get the same treatment here as novices to the game. This is the most unfriendly forum in Elvenar.

Yes, some persons can be a bit brutal, others encounter the language barrier (like myself) and they might express their ideas a bit roughly but to say that someone was shredded to pieces it's a bit too much (in my opinion). We actually have moderators who are doing a good job to calm down the spirits and avoiding conflicts (when possible, ofc). Let's not overdramatize about this matter.

I can't say that this is the most unfriendly forum in Elvenar since I am member only here and in Beta, but I do not see major differences between them.
 

Silly Bubbles

Necromancer
Do you have any idea why aren't attractive? Do any of you have ideas how we could revive the forums?

From my experience this forum doesn't have a good reputation due to personal attacks and lack of acceptance of different views/strategies to what is generally accepted.
We are all different and that's why there's a need for high tolerance of different communication styles and not to take anything personally unless it's in the face rude. Also letting people explain themselves without unnecessary premature judgement would be great. In short: friendly, helpful, tolerant, respectful, open to new views/ideas.

No rewards in the world would make people to post on this forum, knowing that they will be attacked and shredded to pieces by regulars here, just saying... As I mentioned before, this is your own doing, the result of years and years of snobbish behaviour towards newcomers to the forum; even experienced players get the same treatment here as novices to the game. This is the most unfriendly forum in Elvenar.

I agree, years ago, under different user name, whatever I said was either wrong or my personality was bad or my city was bad. It went that far that I was told that I should be banned off the internet just because I was against the old version of cross trading, defended developers and used different strategies. At the end I was the one that got a warning and that was my cue.
 

Far Reach

Conjurer
From my experience this forum doesn't have a good reputation due to personal attacks and lack of acceptance of different views/strategies to what is generally accepted.

Perhaps some discussion about what is and isn't a reasonable post might help.

My feeling is that if someone posts proposing a particular idea to be taken to the devs, then it is reasonable for others to make constructive comments regarding that change (whether highlighting good points, or problems). Ultimately changes will affect the health of the game overall.

If someone is posting a question then there isn't any need for anything but a helpful response.

Perhaps we could explicitly differentiate when we post between personal opinions (which probably should be left unchallenged) and assertions or purported facts (which it would be reasonable to politely disagree with).

Are the above suggestions reasonable ? Would they help address the concerns expressed above ?
 

Silly Bubbles

Necromancer
Perhaps some discussion about what is and isn't a reasonable post might help.

My feeling is that if someone posts proposing a particular idea to be taken to the devs, then it is reasonable for others to make constructive comments regarding that change (whether highlighting good points, or problems). Ultimately changes will affect the health of the game overall.

If someone is posting a question then there isn't any need for anything but a helpful response.

Perhaps we could explicitly differentiate when we post between personal opinions (which probably should be left unchallenged) and assertions or purported facts (which it would be reasonable to politely disagree with).

Are the above suggestions reasonable ? Would they help address the concerns expressed above ?

You can politely and respectfully disagree with everything you want. It won't very likely change the opinion or view or strategy of the other person and that's completely fine and acceptable. Attacking someone for having different view or opinion or strategy to the power group is wrong. It's not about who's got most support or is loudest or who shuts other people best, it's about how many people support it or are against it. The active people on this and any other forum don't necessarily represent the view of all players.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
The active people on this and any other forum don't necessarily represent the view of all players.

To get this bit out of the way first, because I don´t see the point what that has to do with the discussion at all:

You are correct! A subsample will never ever represent the whole sample. The forums are extremely biased towards the most active end of the range of activity. That is not surprising as there is a strong correlation between game activity and forum activity. It really wouldn´t make much sense for a person that spends 10 minute a day on the game to hang around the forum for an hour...
Which is also the reason why the impact of this forum on the game is very limited. We only stand for an extremely small fraction of Innos income. Basically they don´t care much what we say or do as us being happy or unhappy doesn´t affect their sales much.
I see the use of this forum much more in something else: There is another correlation: The most active players tend to also have a lot of game knowledge.Spending a lot of time on the game tends to lead to learning more about it, either by actual research or simply by experience. The forum is a place where you can easily find those people and tap into their knowledge.
If you ask me: When you come here, your chances of getting game advice or help with problem solving/troubleshooting your city are much higher than to think you can make Inno change the game.
On the upside: Most problems don´t need Inno to do anything, they can be fixed by changing game choices. Even if Inno decides to fix problems, most people that asked for the problem to be fixed will have stopped playing long before the fix comes. Take the spire as an example: Scrolls overproduction has been predicted as a major problem since before the first spire started in beta and it actually started to become a real problem within a few month. It took Inno more than 2 (or was it 3?) years to fix the problem (well it took them 5 minutes to fix it, but the decision to do so took years). There however have been workarounds the entire time and I personally had never an actual problem with scrolls, because I as a town (with 14 spire sets) as well as we as a FS (with hundreds of sets) did what we could to solve the problem. It was inconvenient for sure, but we made it work.

You can politely and respectfully disagree with everything you want. It won't very likely change the opinion or view or strategy of the other person and that's completely fine and acceptable. Attacking someone for having different view or opinion or strategy to the power group is wrong. It's not about who's got most support or is loudest or who shuts other people best, it's about how many people support it or are against it. The active people on this and any other forum don't necessarily represent the view of all players.

I don´t think anyone disagrees with you on any of that though... I certainly don´t.

Here is my take on this:

I don´t see personal attacks happening very often here at all. The few instances of insults etc are shut down very efficiently by the mods here (the ongoing discussion is that mods may be rather too efficient at that, not the opposite!). So the only attacks I can think of are those against ideas or proposals, but that is the nature of a discussion, pitch two (or more) ideas against each other and see which one wins.

The question is only one of interpretation. If someone comes forward with a claim that the game is broken because of XYZ and someone explains to them that it isn´t the game that´s broken, but their choice of actions in the game, well some take offense and claim to be shut down, while others see it as helpful advice.

I certainly am one to point out how problems can be solved instead of always asking the game for freebies. I don´t expect anyone to change their opinion or even to take the advice. I don´t mind either way, but I will always strongly advocate against handing out unnecessary freebies. Unnecessary meaning they could be obtained by simply changing your game choices. Again you don´t have to change, you can keep doing what you do, but you won´t get what you want either. You are certainly not getting my support, just because you are too stubborn to learn/try new things/take advice.

Same goes for game changes that are constantly asked for. Developers time is limited, I will not support every idea that is brought forward just because somebody thinks it would be nice for them, more like the opposite, I will support very few of them, the ones that I think will actually benefit the game in a general way. Everything else I will argue against.

People always claim that they want the right to say their opinion. I fully support that. Problem is the same people claim to be shut down every time somebody else exercises the same right and speaks out against them. Suddenly the other person should not have the right to say anything that contradicts them lol. That is hypocrisy.

So if anyone wants to have a say, go ahead and say it, then live with the fact that other people will do the same.
If someone does not want to hear other people´s opinions about what they said, a public forum is the wrong place, send a ticket to support instead!
Oh no I did it again! Advice to the person who didn´t think they could send a ticket to support with their game ideas and somone else just got shut down again by a grumpy Orc! It´s your choice which way you want to look it :D
 
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