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Heroe's Forge - For or Against Me?

Twigjam

Spellcaster
I'm struggling with producing enough Orcs. I crafted some Orc's Nests and built the Heroe's Forge and was making plenty for the tournaments but the other day I upgraded the Forge to lvl 7 then yesterday's tourney round took an enormous amount of them! So many that I'm not sure if I'll have enough for the last few rounds. I'm on the verge of deleting the Forge and in its place building another Armory. What do you think? (I don't have enough space for both).

My city is mainly set up to cater so I'm not bothered about the HR troops fighting ability being raised a tiny amount.

I understand that upgrading AWs, adding Expansions and going forward in the Resesarch Tree makes the tournies more difficult. That's why I only have 4 AWs and don't want many more. I'd actually be quite pleased to get my AWs back down to 3, if I'm not making a horrible mistake by deleting it.
 
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Twigjam

Spellcaster
Heroes forge is nice in the orcs chapter, but is outstripped by even regular armouries later on in tThahe game.
And attack bonus for heavy melee is near useless.

So my advise, you do not need it.

Thank you! It's what I wanted to hear. :D

Also I deleted a Weeping Willow and started building another Armory. I can always put the Willow back when I get another expansion. I'm going to be in Woodelves for a long time anyway and that doesn't bother me. I love this chapter!
 

kimkimkim

Summoner
seeing as you cater and not fight...I would personally build more orc nests over another armory....will save you pop and culture in building it
 

Gargon667

Mentor
I'm struggling with producing enough Orcs. I crafted some Orc's Nests and built the Heroe's Forge and was making plenty for the tournaments but the other day I upgraded the Forge to lvl 7 then yesterday's tourney round took an enormous amount of them! So many that I'm not sure if I'll have enough for the last few rounds. I'm on the verge of deleting the Forge and in its place building another Armory. What do you think? (I don't have enough space for both).

My city is mainly set up to cater so I'm not bothered about the HR troops fighting ability being raised a tiny amount.

I understand that upgrading AWs, adding Expansions and going forward in the Resesarch Tree makes the tournies more difficult. That's why I only have 4 AWs and don't want many more. I'd actually be quite pleased to get my AWs back down to 3, if I'm not making a horrible mistake by deleting it.

1. The Heroes Forge is an AW and since AW levels increase the costs of tourneys (including catering costs!) you may well upgrade to a negative effect on your Orcs.
2. The production of Orcs is not especially good. Armories (if you can afford them) or Orc Nests will be much better for Orc production in most cases
3. As @CrazyWizard said. Attack bonus is rarely useful and if you are mainly catering of no use at all. If that is what you do just build a farm of Orc Nests or other event buildings that make Orcs.
 

Twigjam

Spellcaster
seeing as you cater and not fight...I would personally build more orc nests over another armory....will save you pop and culture in building it

Since the tourney changes I've found that catering's easier but I do still autofight, and also I needed to build another armory to slow down the troop training speed. Because of there being no armory upgrades in Woodelves my troops are training far too fast and so they're not being trained at night. I'm sure you've encountered that problem. Anyway it's built. I used a lot of time boosters so it's at lvl 23 like the others and I'm really pleased I did it. My tournament round was so easy. It used up barely any orcs! Good riddance Heroe's Forge. :D Not for me.

I've already got a couple of Orc's Nests and I'm going to craft a few more. Useful little buidings to slide in those awkward spaces nothing else fits in.
 
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SkyRider99

Mentor
I use multiple L39 armories. I've never had too many orcs. I'm keeping a basline 100K orcs which allows for demand spikes here and there. And the extra ranking points make me feel like it's worthwhile. That's just my approach. Other so-called forum officianados will probably say something different because they believe it's better, or they don't think I'm entitled to an opinion. :( Have a nice day.
 

Twigjam

Spellcaster
Heroes forge is nice in the orcs chapter, but is outstripped by even regular armouries later on in the game.
And attack bonus for heavy melee is near useless.

So my advise, you do not need it.

This has got me thinking, how about the other AWs, such as the Prosperity Towers, Golden Abyss and Mountain Halls (which are the only ones I choose to have currently). Do they increase the tourney demands for supplies, gold and goods more then the amounts they give? In other words have they completely broken/nerfed the AWs usefulness in the tournaments? And does their usefulness outside of the tourneys make up for the amount they may make the tournies more difficult?

The only thing I've really heard people say is to only have AWs which help fight in the tourneys. I mostly cater as I've said and I want to know about the above mentioned AWs.
 
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Twigjam

Spellcaster
I use multiple L39 armories. I've never had too many orcs. I'm keeping a basline 100K orcs which allows for demand spikes here and there. And the extra ranking points make me feel like it's worthwhile. That's just my approach. Other so-called forum officianados will probably say something different because they believe it's better, or they don't think I'm entitled to an opinion. :( Have a nice day.

To me everyone's opinion and/or advice is valued and useful for me to weigh things up so thank you! :D
 

Far Reach

Conjurer
This has got me thinking, how about the other AWs, such as the Prosperity Towers, Golden Abyss and Mountain Halls (which are the only ones I choose to have currently). Do they increase the tourney demands for supplies, gold and goods more then the amounts they give? In other words have they completely broken/nerfed the AWs usefulness in the tournaments? And does their usefulness outside of the tourneys make up for the amount they may make the tournies more difficult?

I would say that they are definitely worth it for you, although they wouldn't all necessarily be for certain players (particularly hardcore tournament fighters who aren't interested in ranking or further city progression).

You have 50 AW levels (according to Elvenstats) which means that your catering costs are 15% higher than if you sold off all your Wonders. On the other hand, those wonders provide a big population boost (so fewer residences needed, and more space for other buildings) as well as increasing total coins, supplies and goods production.

If you want to calculate the numbers exactly - catering costs are multiplied by (1 + 0.003n) where n is the number of AW levels.
 

Twigjam

Spellcaster
I would say that they are definitely worth it for you, although they wouldn't all necessarily be for certain players (particularly hardcore tournament fighters who aren't interested in ranking or further city progression).

You have 50 AW levels (according to Elvenstats) which means that your catering costs are 15% higher than if you sold off all your Wonders. On the other hand, those wonders provide a big population boost (so fewer residences needed, and more space for other buildings) as well as increasing total coins, supplies and goods production.

If you want to calculate the numbers exactly - catering costs are multiplied by (1 + 0.003n) where n is the number of AW levels.

Thanks so much for finding that out for me. It's good to know that they're still beneficial for my city :D .
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
This has got me thinking, how about the other AWs, such as the Prosperity Towers, Golden Abyss and Mountain Halls (which are the only ones I choose to have currently). Do they increase the tourney demands for supplies, gold and goods more then the amounts they give? In other words have they completely broken/nerfed the AWs usefulness in the tournaments? And does their usefulness outside of the tourneys make up for the amount they may make the tournies more difficult?

The only thing I've really heard people say is to only have AWs which help fight in the tourneys. I mostly cater as I've said and I want to know about the above mentioned AWs.
You cannot put 1:1 numbers on them.

The formula is relic bonus * research * wonderlevels * expansions.

How much does a wonderlevel add? assuming everyone got the relic bonus it depends on your research level and expansions.

example: (using dumb explainatory easy number to explain the concept, they are not the real life numbers!!!)
1 wonder x 2 research * 3 expansion = 6
1 wonder x 3 research * 4 expansion = 12

In both examples you gain 1 wonderlevel but the amount of added difficulty is vastly different.
So in no way for any wonder, expansion or research can you say they add x.

What you can say is that the more you got of everything the harder it's to justify any of them.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
I use multiple L39 armories. I've never had too many orcs. I'm keeping a basline 100K orcs which allows for demand spikes here and there. And the extra ranking points make me feel like it's worthwhile. That's just my approach. Other so-called forum officianados will probably say something different because they believe it's better, or they don't think I'm entitled to an opinion. :( Have a nice day.

I fully agree with the first part: no such thing as too many Orcs, I think I have about 5 million or so?

As you already predicted people have different opinions, and obviously they think they are better, because if they thought they were worse, they would hardly talk about them :p Doesn´t mean they they don´t think you´re allowed to have an opinion, but they do think they are allowed to have one differing from yours...
So yeah ranking points are BS, sorry I kinda had to ;)
 

Gargon667

Mentor
This has got me thinking, how about the other AWs, such as the Prosperity Towers, Golden Abyss and Mountain Halls (which are the only ones I choose to have currently). Do they increase the tourney demands for supplies, gold and goods more then the amounts they give? In other words have they completely broken/nerfed the AWs usefulness in the tournaments? And does their usefulness outside of the tourneys make up for the amount they may make the tournies more difficult?

The only thing I've really heard people say is to only have AWs which help fight in the tourneys. I mostly cater as I've said and I want to know about the above mentioned AWs.

Those are actually good AWs, so they definitely produce more of the good they make than they cost, but that isn´t really the issue. The problem is they also increase the cost for all the other goods that they don´t produce. So the GA does not only increase gold costs, but it increases supplies and goods and Mana and Orc costs along with the gold costs... And if we are talking about scoring in tourneys then troops are by far the most important resource, and none of your examples produces any of those, while all of them cost troops.
Before the tourney formula was changed those 3 were among the best AWs out there, they are for a reason among the standard buildings, nearly everybody has. I have all 3 as well (at a combined level of 82 or so). They sure cost a lot in tourneys, but they are still worth the pain anyway.
 

Paladestar

Enchanter
The new Shrine of the Champions AW from Chapter 18 makes the Heroes' Forge look like a total joke by comparison.

Maxed out it will give 0.0000184 * [Required Culture] * [Tournament Score] per week.

For me, right now, that'd be 20 Orcs per tournament score point. So a tournament score of 5K gives 100K Orcs, 10K score gives 200K etc.

By comparison, a max-level Heroes' Forge, for me, would give 42K Orcs per week.
 

DeletedUser501

Enchanter
The new Shrine of the Champions AW from Chapter 18 makes the Heroes' Forge look like a total joke by comparison.

Maxed out it will give 0.0000184 * [Required Culture] * [Tournament Score] per week.

For me, right now, that'd be 20 Orcs per tournament score point. So a tournament score of 5K gives 100K Orcs, 10K score gives 200K etc.

By comparison, a max-level Heroes' Forge, for me, would give 42K Orcs per week.
For real it will give that enormous quantities of Orcs? If what you´re saying is truth, wow, it will be one of the best AWs ever made, and with this you won´t even need armories for orc production.
 
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