Heroe's Forge - For or Against Me?

[Wibbly Woo]

For real it will give that enormous quantities of Orcs? If what you´re saying is truth, wow, it will be one of the best AWs ever made, and with this you won´t even need armories for orc production.

Well, it will if you have a required culture of around 1.1 million and are the third ranked player on the server…

I suspect the 600 provinces required for 42k Orcs a week is going to be easier for most players in practice.

 

[Gargon667]

For real it will give that enormous quantities of Orcs? If what you´re saying is truth, wow, it will be one of the best AWs ever made, and with this you won´t even need armories for orc production.

If you want to score 10k tourney points every week, you have the armories anyway for troops production. So you gain nothing really... Well you save a few supplies for making the Orcs in the armories and you save clicking on them, but that´s about it.

At the same time the AW will as always make the tourneys more costly.

Even if I would play the chapter, I would certainly not build/upgrade an AW for Orc production.

 

[Gargon667]

The new Shrine of the Champions AW from Chapter 18 makes the Heroes' Forge look like a total joke by comparison.

Maxed out it will give 0.0000184 * [Required Culture] * [Tournament Score] per week.

For me, right now, that'd be 20 Orcs per tournament score point. So a tournament score of 5K gives 100K Orcs, 10K score gives 200K etc.

By comparison, a max-level Heroes' Forge, for me, would give 42K Orcs per week.

I 100% agree that the Heroes Forge is completely useless as a Orc production building. But that is only a minor side-effect of the Forge.

The main reason for building it would be the damage increase for HM troops.

And I still sold the AW due to how tourneys work nowadays.

An Orc producing AW with no damage boost to anything will definitely never get built in my town, no matter how many Orcs it makes.

But to say something nice about it, it is probably the AW that got closest to being considered in the last 4 chapters (well maybe similar to the Thermal Springs)

 

[Deleted User - 849062753]

Those are actually good AWs, so they definitely produce more of the good they make than they cost, but that isn´t really the issue. The problem is they also increase the cost for all the other goods that they don´t produce. So the GA does not only increase gold costs, but it increases supplies and goods and Mana and Orc costs along with the gold costs...

I don't understand why the GA would increase all those other costs, especially Manna?

 

[Gargon667]

I don't understand why the GA would increase all those other costs, especially Manna?

Every AW level you have increases the SS used to calculate the tourneys. And with growing SS grow the catering costs. So no matter which AW you build it will always increase both troops costs and goods costs to play both the spire and the tourney.

 

[Deleted User - 849062753]

Every AW level you have increases the SS used to calculate the tourneys. And with growing SS grow the catering costs. So no matter which AW you build it will always increase both troops costs and goods costs to play both the spire and the tourney.

Thanks. You said it increases manna costs?

 

[Gargon667]

Thanks. You said it increases manna costs?

Mana is part of the catering costs in both tourney and spire, so yes they are increased by AW levels, just as any goods, gold, supplies and orcs costs in both tourneys and spire as well as additional seeds and sentient goods costs (only in the spire)

 

[Deleted User - 849062753]

Mana is part of the catering costs in both tourney and spire, so yes they are increased by AW levels, just as any goods, gold, supplies and orcs costs in both tourneys and spire as well as additional seeds and sentient goods costs (only in the spire)

Ah, it's been a long time since I last played and I forgot that. I haven't had any manna charges yet in this city.

 

[Almondum]

Heya folks, sorry for using necromancy and raising this threat from the dead, but I have a question.
So with the tournament formula changes, what are the good wonders that are definitely worth having?

At present, I'm at wood elves and I have: mountain halls, golden abyss, monastery and excvation. The latter I'll sell.
Should I also sell my GA and MH?

I was thinking at replacing them with Needles and only use Needles + Monastery until..well I don't know

Thanks!
Almond

 

[Gargon667]

That depends on how dedicated you are to tourney/spire and how much you care about the rest of the game.

GA/MH are awesome for everything except tourney/spire.

Needles, MM definitely a yes and best place to sink KP into until lvl 30.

Don´t forget the Shrooms, you´ll need those to keep up with your Needles.

Woodelves gives you the Flying Academy.

 

[Laurelin]

@Almondum : Essentially, I agree with @Gargon667, but being a Combat-focused Woodelves player myself, I thought I'd just second the view that if you're also primarily a Combat player, you'll want to upgrade both MM and Needles as high as you can, and add (and level) the Shrooms and Flying Academy as well. That said, however, I would also mention that at my stage, and having fast-levelled the MM and NT, I'm now seeing very significant increases in Tourney and Spire Squad Sizes - to the point where I'm forced to Cater some Provinces above Round 20 or so even in Round 1 (!), even though I still have both MM and NT below Level 20 (Monastery at 18, Needles at 14). Because of this problem, and until I finally acquire the decent (i.e. above 1* level) Mercenary Camp Troops, I'm considering calling a halt to any further upgrades to either MM or NT, even though they are indeed very useful, since their Squad Size penalty is starting to outweigh their benefits due to the inferiority of my almost solely Barracks-sourced Troops.

I do keep both a GA and an MH, both reasonably high-levelled (GA at 14 and MH at 13), although I am growing more and more tempted to delete the MH, since I seem to have more than enough Goods to Cater the higher Tourney provinces (most of which I currently cannot fight, but which will of course become easier to fight once my Troops improve), even without the boost from the MH. There are only two reasons why I'm even keeping the MH; the first is (a) its Population boost, although I'm now finding that combining some of the good (i.e. mainly 2+ years old) Event hybrids with a reduced number of Residences is a better and non-Squad-Size-affecting substitute, and the second is (b) the sheer number of KPs I've put into the MH, at quite a fast rate, because having wasted all those KPs will be annoying, to say the least... especially if AWs eventually become teleportable back into Inventory, since I think (?) this can be done in FoE - which Elvenar continues to imitate more and more all the time - and if I delete the MH now and then, within (say) a few months, it so happens that I could have teleported it instead, I will be, to put it politely, more than fed-up!

PS : I do know that, even if AWs become teleportable, they would certainly lose any KPs currently invested (in the active level prior to upgrade), and may or may not also lose any previously completed upgrades, but again, I don't think this happens in FoE, and if Elvenar can (to date) effectively copy and re-skin such large in-game elements as the Spire and Evolving Buildings, both of which originate in FoE, I don't see why AWs shouldn't follow suit - and if it should turn out that the MH becomes more useful at higher Chapter levels, I'd rather be able to (re)place it at Level 12/13 than start again at L.1!

 

[Almondum]

Thanks you for much for wonderful replies @Gargon667 and @Laurelin

Definitely building Needles, and keeping my MM!
From the latter reply, I feel that even if I only keep the useful Wonders (needles+MM+shrooms), if I level them too much, I will be "harmed" (spire/tournem difficulty).

Maybe I should just wait and not upgrade any wonder until I unlock 2 star mercenary camp units?

I do use mostly (90%~) my barracks units. The sole exception is when I wish to counter a bunch of archers, then I use my Orc strategists.

Thank you and have a wonderful week!
Almond

 

[Gargon667]

Thanks you for much for wonderful replies @Gargon667 and @Laurelin

Definitely building Needles, and keeping my MM!
From the latter reply, I feel that even if I only keep the useful Wonders (needles+MM+shrooms), if I level them too much, I will be "harmed" (spire/tournem difficulty).

Maybe I should just wait and not upgrade any wonder until I unlock 2 star mercenary camp units?

I do use mostly (90%~) my barracks units. The sole exception is when I wish to counter a bunch of archers, then I use my Orc strategists.

Thank you and have a wonderful week!
Almond

Every AW level increases tourney/spire costs, and every level does equally much of that. So there is no reason to stop upgrading the AWs that actually help. Just make sure they help more than they hurt and which AWs that is true for depends on you, so is hard to say as an outsider.

I would say safe bets are: FA, Needles, Simia, DA, Toads, MM, TWarp. It´s very hard to imagine a case where they would do more harm than good, if you are going for high tourney scores. Should keep you busy for a while getting those all to lvl 30. While you do that, you can try and figure out which other AWs might be good for you or at least worth the pain

 

[OldHag]

To me, this all seems a bit mad....lol

Why go for high tourney scores, you're just going to win more kps and then do what with them? level your aw's, increase research or keep stored in your bar/inventory, then what?

I personally gave up hanging around in chapter 15 to keep the tourneys easier, although I did spend some time waiting but it's boring, so I'm now at the end of chapter 16 with 298 aw levels....spread across 19 aws, including all the mil buildings @Gargon667 mentioned, but also including GA - ETC - BTG - Tomes - WR - MH - VS - PoP - TSoY - DB (my lowest and most disliked aw) - and the Heroes Forge.....................They all serve a purpose and help in some way or other. I've found the tourneys are still doable, so don't be afraid to progress.
I can keep up with troop loss doing anything from 24-32 provinces - I don't do bear training to be able to keep up with my losses and I have no intention of playing this ridiculous game of 'delete aw's' in order to be able to play the tournaments.
If the game/tourneys become unplayable, due to the tourney formulae and the upgrading of aws, then all I can say is there are plenty of other playable games out there.