Halloween

[DeletedUser845]

Pauly7 you probably will take a lot of flak for that but I understand your point so not from me. However, your point is not the same as the point some of us are making here.

You chose not to complete or compete in those events because you took a view on the rewards. I did the same in the last event. We do it all the time in all aspects of the game, it's how we all end up in different places.

Here it is different - it is not mathematically possible for some of us to complete this event (you'll find that scouting times get a lot longer than 30 hours as you get further) therefore I have no choice as to whether to complete it or not. This is more akin to Inno putting in place something that say stopped you building a particulary high value culture building when others could or limiting the population of your residences to less than 100% of the amount others could have, i.e. something you would not have a choice over. Of course they could do worse - when you win those buildings they could decide they are too favourable and reduce the value drastically, though I am sure they would never be so thoughtless as to do something like that .

If Inno are going to block off part of the game to some players then it ceases to be a game we can fully participate in.

There is also history here which makes this particular one worse as Inno previously took the view that some of us had scouted too far, benefited too much from it and made life much more difficult for us but are now including such quests that seem to encourage scouting of 5 provinces in 12 days (a rate it has not been possible for me to do for over a year now).

 

[Pauly7]

Here it is different - it is not mathematically possible for some of us to complete this event (you'll find that scouting times get a lot longer than 30 hours as you get further) therefore I have no choice as to whether to complete it or not. This is more akin to Inno putting in place something that say stopped you building a particulary high value culture building when others could or limiting the population of your residences to less than 100% of the amount others could have, i.e. something you would not have a choice over.

I understand your pain, but if it is mathematically impossible for a higher level player to scout 5 provinces in 19 days (which only applies to those people who's scouting time is more than 91 hours per province) is this really that much different to a quest that only offers mana producing prizes, in the way that an element is closed off to lower level players? I know those buildings are still technically available, but let's be honest, we know that no one wants a building providing tiny amounts of supplies.

Even given that, it is still likely that many of those high level players did already have scouted provinces already waiting to be completed, as I did.

If Inno are going to block off part of the game to some players then it ceases to be a game we can fully participate in.

So what I am suggesting is: maybe it is OK if Inno virtually blocks off certain quests from certain players as maybe it is better to have certain things appealing to certain people, rather than trying to make everything appeal to everyone, which will never work and which is more likely to lead to everyone being slightly frustrated all of the time.

Plus, of course, there is my point that if you win a prize that not everyone can attain then you can feel prouder of the achievement. In this circumstance maybe it lets those small or mid-range players feel that pride.

 

[Timneh]

It is not so satisfying to win that prize building if you know that everyone playing the game has won it also.

What difference does it make if everyone has the building or not ? Other people having the same event buildings as you does not affect your city in any way, it does not affect the way you can play your game in any way and it does not mean tha youare a better or worse player than others.

Plus, of course, there is my point that if you win a prize that not everyone can attain then you can feel prouder of the achievement. In this circumstance maybe it lets those small or mid-range players feel that pride.

So it is all about the bragging rights ?

Take the Masquerade quest, for example. Judging from the prizes that questline was aimed solely at people who could produce mana and I just whimisically thought to myself: "Well it's pity, but this quest just isn't aimed at me". The sugar beet quest I largely sat out (certainly sat out of the chance of the top two grand prizes) because I felt that some of the quests were too much for me plus I wasn't motivated enough by those prizes.

In one of the past Q&A sessions Timon stated that it was intended that all players should be able to complete all events, not that they should be able to get all grand prizes but complete the events so unless Inno have changed that policy(which is possible with it being Inno) then saying that certain events are aimed at certain level players is incorrect.

This Halloween quest I am going all out for... mostly because I think that windmill looks cool and that's a big driving force for me. Right now I'm up to quest 16 (even with my KP costing 410k) and I expect to hit the latter relics quest by the time the marble tournament starts. My scouting may not take as long as some, but it is almost 30 hours per province. Because I am motivated I started saving my provinces when I first saw the quests. Taking those 7 days and including, let's say, the first 7 days of the quest itself then that allows me to save up 11 provinces. Fortuitously for me I already had 3 or 4 provinces waiting from the get go, so I don't really have any issue with that element. My only concern is saving up enough goods to pay for them all.

The thing you seem to be forgetting here is that a lot of players do not use spoilers for whatever reason so they do not know that they are going to need to have XX number of provinces scouted ready to complete. If you did not read spoilers and did not have advanced notice about needing to clear XX number of provinces for a quest would you still be able to complete the event in the time ? After each event you say that it was too easy and you finished it well before the end but you also admit to using spoilers. I have mentioned in another thread that if you want more of a challenge from events then try doing them without reading the spoilers.

This is not giving you flak Pauly7 i am just pointing a few things out based on your comments and i hope you do not take offence as none was intended.

 

[DeletedUser2233]

So what I am suggesting is: maybe it is OK if Inno virtually blocks off certain quests from certain players as maybe it is better to have certain things appealing to certain people, rather than trying to make everything appeal to everyone, which will never work and which is more likely to lead to everyone being slightly frustrated all of the time.

Plus, of course, there is my point that if you win a prize that not everyone can attain then you can feel prouder of the achievement. In this circumstance maybe it lets those small or mid-range players feel that pride.

Sure so you going to you're baker , for example and then the baker tells you ,hey you aint getting any bread today ....And that is fine with you ? Of course but you can do it ,is it not ?

So if you can do it then you can feel extra proud ,because we can't that has nothing to do with an accomplishment since inno made it IMPOSSIBLE for some people to do so .There is NO competition if the competition is rigged .This quest is rigged !! got nothing to do with will and wont ,we cant ....And that is what is frustrating about it .

So you can not possibly feel good about that .If you're competition gets wiped before you even start .(figuratively speaking)

 

[Pauly7]

What difference does it make if everyone has the building or not ? Other people having the same event buildings as you does not affect your city in any way, it does not affect the way you can play your game in any way and it does not mean tha youare a better or worse player than others.

Yes it does affect me. I realise that my priorities in this game are not the same as the majority so let me explain... The most important thing that I get out of this game is attempting to make my city look interesting and perhaps unique if possible. If you ever see it you will find that it is one of the most 'inefficient' cities because I refuse to have something that I don't like the look of... so I have culture buildings inside roads, I don't usually have two of the same building near to each other, I never build a culture building twice, etc, etc. In this regard one of the best satisfactions that I can have is the thought that people might visit and say "hey that's interesting" or "hey that's unusual" or "I can imagine that being an actual city"... whether or not I succeed is another matter... So if I have a chance to have a building that a) I like the look of and b) not everyone has, then I am all for that.

In one of the past Q&A sessions Timon stated that it was intended that all players should be able to complete all events, not that they should be able to get all grand prizes but complete the events so unless Inno have changed that policy(which is possible with it being Inno) then saying that certain events are aimed at certain level players is incorrect.

I haven't seen that Q&A, but in either case I am not too often in the habit of agreeing with what Inno intends. In making my points I do, of course, realise that it is very possible that Inno never intended to do what they did for the reasons I have outlined.

After each event you say that it was too easy and you finished it well before the end but you also admit to using spoilers. I have mentioned in another thread that if you want more of a challenge from events then try doing them without reading the spoilers.

This is kind of a separate point, though maybe a valid one in its own right. As I explained before, though, I feel like the "spoilers" have become an intrinsic part of the game and a big part of the fun is planning it as far in advance as possible and getting all the pieces to fall into place. If said spoilers ceased to exist then it would present a whole different challenge that I wouldn't be averse to, but unless it does I will use the tools at my disposal. Also, remember that everyone who feels aggrieved at this stage has also read the spoilers (unless they also play beta) or they wouldn't be looking forward to what they are not happy with.

So if you can do it then you can feel extra proud ,because we can't that has nothing to do with an accomplishment since inno made it IMPOSSIBLE for some people to do so .There is NO competition if the competition is rigged .This quest is rigged !! got nothing to do with will and wont ,we cant ....And that is what is frustrating about it .

I am not trying to describe a sense of competition, though I realise what I said could make it seem that way. I'm merely in favour of the notion that it is not a certainty that everyone will complete the quest line, thus providing a sense of achievement to those that do. Equally, though, I am not in favour of it being completely impossible for anyone given all the right planning and preparation and motivation, so that's quite a difficult balance I suppose.

 

[DeletedUser845]

Pauly7 no that is not the same. There were no mana only prizes - prizes have always been tapered to the level you are at - so that is still the same point you already made (and a reasonable one) about not taking part because the prizes are not worth the resources needed to win them. Inno have done this sort of thing before - needing Orcs when you are not at the Orc race, etc.

So if I challenge you to a 100m race but chain you to a 10 ton block of concrete at the start line so you cannot ever win the race, should I still take pride in winning the trophy over you?

 

[DeletedUser3182]

Pauly quote:
So my points are a) We shouldn't expect to be able to win every prize from every quest and b) If you really really want to win the prize then quite a lot can be accomplished with careful planning considering we get 7 days' notice of what we need to prepare for.

I'm not sure why Pauly, but I always get the impression from your posts that you feel quite superior to others and I have to resist the hackles on the back of my neck going up the minute I start reading what you write.

Here's the issues as I see them. A) no amount of planning will enable me to get some of the tasks completed; b) we do not get 'seven days notice of what to prepare for, since it has categorically been stated that we can't rely on what comes out of beta; c) even if I 'really really' want to win the prize and carefully plan, I cannot - repeat cannot - win any encounter because I do not have the ability to produce the orcs that are required. I have 8 provinces waiting at the 'get go' - doesn't get me anywhere.

With KP costing 410k, 17KP must have been a costly amount, around 7 million and counting.

I am not sure why it makes you more satisfied to have a building that others couldn't achieve - except for that feeling of superiority you exude.

Still my whimsical thought is these prizes just aren't that enticing and so maybe I'm just not that motivated to spend diamonds or time and effort to get a prize that you so cherish and desire. I have the two main prizes from the March of the Herds- which was tough, but doable; and the two main prizes from Eldrasil's ascending - again doable but neither needed any diamonds spent. Odd, really, I wasn't motivated to go all out for either event; and many of the buildings gained are languishing in my inventory.

I still don't understand why it is right for you to be able to gain a building that others can't and thus you feel that Inno should stop others from getting them, just so your city can be unique and interesting - but to whom? Do you really believe that players who visit, stop to admire your achievements? Or is it just a sense of mirror gazing and ego-stroking.

Ultimately, it's a game, there is achievement in it, but not in getting a building that by luck and some advance notice you are able to gain. Yes, luck is involved because you are able to scout provinces and win or cater encounters. Luck in having the millions to pay for the KP, luck because you can use the tournament at the right time. Luck to be at the right point in the game to research one technology (not be stuck with waiting in dwarves or fairies) or upgrade a building to level 20.

Is this flak, I'm not sure - it sounded as if you were inviting some. I am just pointing out that gaining a prize in this game is based on just completing tasks that you are able to do. No event should be designed to exclude some players, unless it is specifically stated before or at the start.

I don't expect to win every prize, I am often surprised that I have finally completed an event before the end. I do expect a fair chance of completing a series of tasks that have certain obstacles that can't be overcome by any forward planning, advance knowledge or other strategies.

One final issue I have about these recent events and this is no exception . I am so fed up with having to build non-boosted manufactories, and because I'm short of either pop or culture, have to also find room for residences and/or culture building. Then because I don't need them I sell them off and lose half of what I used to build them. Why are players being forced now to build non-boosted - using valuable space and resources - purely for events.

 

[cwgiii]

So my points are a) We shouldn't expect to be able to win every prize from every quest and b) If you really really want to win the prize then quite a lot can be accomplished with careful planning considering we get 7 days' notice of what we need to prepare for.

This is very true. My personal opinion is that one major theme throughout the game is about deciding on priorities. You simply cannot have everything instantly in this game (unless you have a huge pocket book for diamonds).

One technique that I have learned to prepare (specifically for relics), is that I continually scout, but do not solve the encounters until absolutely necessary (during events). When able, I solve encounters or collect relics via tournaments. This way, I have a huge selection of encounters to cater (as is my choice) and can build resources accordingly in advance.

 

[Timneh]

Yes it does affect me. I realise that my priorities in this game are not the same as the majority so let me explain... The most important thing that I get out of this game is attempting to make my city look interesting and perhaps unique if possible. If you ever see it you will find that it is one of the most 'inefficient' cities because I refuse to have something that I don't like the look of... so I have culture buildings inside roads, I don't usually have two of the same building near to each other, I never build a culture building twice, etc, etc. In this regard one of the best satisfactions that I can have is the thought that people might visit and say "hey that's interesting" or "hey that's unusual" or "I can imagine that being an actual city"... whether or not I succeed is another matter... So if I have a chance to have a building that a) I like the look of and b) not everyone has, then I am all for that.

It affects you only in that you want to have your city look a little different to everyone elses going from what you have just said. It does not affect the way you can or do play your game in any way.

This is kind of a separate point, though maybe a valid one in its own right. As I explained before, though, I feel like the "spoilers" have become an intrinsic part of the game and a big part of the fun is planning it as far in advance as possible and getting all the pieces to fall into place. If said spoilers ceased to exist then it would present a whole different challenge that I wouldn't be averse to, but unless it does I will use the tools at my disposal. Also, remember that everyone who feels aggrieved at this stage has also read the spoilers (unless they also play beta) or they wouldn't be looking forward to what they are not happy with.

Inno can not or at least should not take into consideration when designing events that spoilers exist.The spoilers are something that Inno have no control over so can not be classed (by Inno) as part of the game. I will repeat that not all players read spoilers, there are 2 players in my FS that do not read them so if Inno were to make the quest/events harder because there are spoilers then they would be being very unfair to the players that like to do the events without using spoilers. Do you not think that you are being hypocritical by complaining that the events are too easy when you openly admit to using tools to make them easier and also refusing to stop using them to make the events more challenging which is what you seem to want ? It is for each person to choose if they want to use spoilers to help complete the events but if they do use them then they should not complain that the events are too easy. If they want harder events then they should not use spoilers...simple.

 

[Pauly7]

I'm not sure why Pauly, but I always get the impression from your posts that you feel quite superior to others and I have to resist the hackles on the back of my neck going up the minute I start reading what you write.

It saddens me if you or anyone thinks this of me. The things that you suggest are certainly not in my mind. From my point of view I am saying things either that I think are helpful, or sometimes I am venting frustrations the same as most people do.

I realise that I may have a habit of trying to explain what I think in great detail, but I mean no offence by that and apologise for any caused.

I will reconsider the way that I put things, but for now it's probably best for me to bow out of this conversation.

 

[DeletedUser3182]

Actually Pauly, don't know if you will read this, but I quite value those who put my hackles up - I have students who do it, doesn't mean they don't have a valid point of view, just means I'm challenged to respond. Not much point in a debate if everyone agrees. However, it's always worth re-evaluating ones communication skills. So please don't stay away too long.

I do have some questions though, which is a result of yours and others who say 'it only takes advance planning to have enough provinces for win encounter tasks' - what happens if during the encounters you run out of resources ie: goods, supplies, troops, before you complete the tasks, and don't have enough time to replenish?

If you wish to open the chest for the next level, a certain number of discovered provinces is required - how do you deal with not having enough provinces discovered? When you have scouted all provinces that are unlocked - what do you do if it's not enough for the events or expansions? If you have a lot of unlocked, uncompleted provinces, then at some point you will be locked out of any scouting. Currently I have eight waiting on one city map and thus am limited in my scouting and can not even do one encounter because they need orcs which I can't produce until the next level. It is also extremely expensive and time consuming for me to scout now (currently running close to 2m/30hours per). This is one result of too much scouting, and winning encounters for events and expansions.

This constant series of event task requirements for scouting/win XX encounters and/or XX relics is going to result in huge map expansions - is that really what Inno thinks is the way forward. Exactly how many extra provinces do we need - which is not our choice - as a result of the events' demands - which seem to get ever more with each one (and more frequent events).

 

[Pauly7]

I quite value those who put my hackles up

Well this wasn't the part that was worrying, as it goes. I can handle putting people's hackles up. That will often result from disagreement.

I do have some questions though, which is a result of yours and others who say 'it only takes advance planning to have enough provinces for win encounter tasks' - what happens if during the encounters you run out of resources ie: goods, supplies, troops, before you complete the tasks, and don't have enough time to replenish?

I see this as a part of the planning. In this case when I looked at the quest list a week ago I realised that if I was going to clear 5 provinces then I would need a lot of goods and I therefore took the decision that I would cut back my involvement in the gems tournament, not go beyond what I can fight in the marble tournament and not do any unnecessary upgrades, etc, until these tasks were completed. I'm also using a lot of goods spells this weekend to bolster what I have.

If you wish to open the chest for the next level, a certain number of discovered provinces is required - how do you deal with not having enough provinces discovered? When you have scouted all provinces that are unlocked - what do you do if it's not enough for the events or expansions?

I haven't found myself in this position so it isn't something that I've considered before. I suppose you would have to decide whether you wanted to complete the quest and therefore delay opening the chest until it is done.

am limited in my scouting and can not even do one encounter because they need orcs which I can't produce until the next level.

I should also point out that this is an element that I hadn't considered because I haven't got to a point where orcs are required to do encounters. As I've said I'm not in favour of it being completely impossible so I don't mean to argue with this grievance.

This constant series of event task requirements for scouting/win XX encounters and/or XX relics is going to result in huge map expansions - is that really what Inno thinks is the way forward.

To respond to this too... so much for my not being involved in this conversation anymore... You are right. Things like this fly in the face of the idea that they don't want people to "over explore". With this quest coming so soon after the last one I realise that without completing any provinces that I don't have to I've already been asked to complete around 10 more in quite a short space of time, when I am already "over explored" by three chapters.

I will emphasize that I am not in support of Inno's uninventive lists of quests. I have said before (maybe in this thread or maybe in others) that I think the quests are all quite lazy in design. This isn't a comment on the prizes as such (although I have said before it would be nice if some quest prizes appeared that had more unique qualities, more akin to ancient wonders), but I would think that the devs could get together and come up with some brand new quest types, rather than the continual - make some goods, then make some supplies, then solve some encounters, then gain some relics - surely it wouldn't be too hard for them to think "Hey, here's something we haven't tried..." I don't know what the answer is. Again, it is limiting to think of things that everyone can accomplish, but it is surely on them to be able to mix things up.

 

[Tonton-des-bois]

Perhaps I'm wrong but "We're looking forward to hearing from you!" sounds strange to my ears... I would have said "we're looking forward to hear from you" or "we're looking forward to get/have/receive hearing(s) from you"... But I'm not a native english speaker though... just take it from the "monkey writer".

No matter, continue this discussion : it won't have any effect on the game, some opinions made my day and it will alleviate your angryness anyway...

but... remember... this is a discussion about the event, not about pauly's opinion about it...

... and like Nessie said : "wrecked event, time to walk the dog, clean the cat box, ..."

 

[DeletedUser2233]

i just hear a lot of people saying it is not fun anymore maybe i should quit .They don't say it here though .I am worried for this game .Will inno destroy it .People will start walking if they are not careful and as usual they wont complain about it they just walk .

 

[Timneh]

Perhaps I'm wrong but "We're looking forward to hearing from you!" sounds strange to my ears... I would have said "we're looking forward to hear from you" or "we're looking forward to get/have/receive hearing(s) from you"... But I'm not a native english speaker though... just take it from the "monkey writer".

That is correct terminology although WE LOOK forward to hearing from you would be better than we're looking forward imo.

 

[Tonton-des-bois]

thanks

 

[DeletedUser3466]

I am so tired of people saying that hard quests are to make the game interesting - if I want interesting I play Skyrim, you know a real game! I want my time waster to be easy...what is with the gazillion squillion relics? I should just ignore the pc/desktop version unless there is a tournament or a fellowship adventure because these single player quests are for the birds!

 

[firerock]

What is surprising is that Inno are the same people who make FoE, and in some of there quest lines, they have amended them after feedback from the community, where it was not possible to take provinces depending on where you were in the ages story quest line. So they said take 3 provinces, or donate some goods. I don't see why this game shouldn't follow suit, there is enough disgruntlement about this event and all the other events, for Inno to do something about it.

As others have said, the events are a monotony of the same crass tasks time and time again, we need some new thinking.

Nobody minds challenging, but challenging isn't the same as impossible.

The reason why you would do an event is if the prize was worth it, but after the fiasco with the prizes from the Autumn event, they seemed to have over nerfed these prizes as I know many from my fellowship are not bothering with it. none of the others are in Halflings as I am either.

 

[Timneh]

What is surprising is that Inno are the same people who make FoE, and in some of there quest lines, they have amended them after feedback from the community, where it was not possible to take provinces depending on where you were in the ages story quest line. So they said take 3 provinces, or donate some goods. I don't see why this game shouldn't follow suit, there is enough disgruntlement about this event and all the other events, for Inno to do something about it.

The only reason i can think of for this is that it is a different team to the one on FoE and the Elvenar team seem to have the attitude that they know what players want and when they introduce something that players actually do not want they just seem to think tough that is what we have given to you so you will just have to put up with it. The attitude of the Elvenar team really does make me think that they do not care a stuff about the players and they design the game for themselves and not their customers.

 

[DeletedUser4397]

I have only recently caught up and rectified the mistake I made of over-scouting (because I was new to the game and did not know the effects it would have). I am certainly not going to jeopardise my position as it stands to gain all the relics, solve encounters for 2 prizes that are not worth it anyway imo. They are graphically good and I can see why players would want them, (kudos to the designer) but that is where it ends for me.