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Goods imbalances

Autumn Goldleaf

Spellcaster
Hi everyone, I have noticed recently that there are more and more cross-tier trades happening... It seems that there is a huge surplus of Tier 3 goods while everyone is in desperate need of T1 and T2... except Scrolls
I think this has come about with Event buildings offering T3 only...
Can future Events please offer T1 and T2 boosted again? Or at least rotate through Tiers for each Event?
Thankyou, Autumn Goldleaf ♡
 

Gargon667

Mentor
I wish there was more T3 on offer!
 

anonglitch

Co-Community Manager
Elvenar Team
All of this comes, and goes, @Autumn Goldleaf It also depends on the area you are in, your neighbors, and your fellowship. With a good fellowship, you will be able to get good trades.

We will keep in mind the suggestion though :)
 

Paladestar

Enchanter
In my observation catering in tournaments seems to use a lot more T1 than T2 than T3. At the end-game the manus pretty much all produce nearly the same per square, but spending is very skewed towards T1, then T2, then T3.
 

DeletedUser6472

Guest
Indeed, as Paladestar said, the need for T1 and T2 for tourneys is insane and we cannot replenish them fast enough, that is why players with not many T1 & T2 manus offer cross tier trades. I have 8 of each T1 & T2 manus and I mostly fight, but still I forgot when I had over 1m of those goods. Returning to the subject of screwed up tourneys system...
 

Gargon667

Mentor
In my observation catering in tournaments seems to use a lot more T1 than T2 than T3. At the end-game the manus pretty much all produce nearly the same per square, but spending is very skewed towards T1, then T2, then T3.

Catering costs are more based on the trader value of the goods, which makes sense I guess, so trading for tourney goods doesn´t cause a problem.
Of course trader ratios are not perfect, and can never be perfect, because as you say the ratios changes over time when upgrading factories, but still lower Tier factories have a somewhat higher per square output (if including factors other than raw production).
I think a somewhat better ratio of catering goods in tourneys/spire could be found if it becomes a more flexible ratio based on chapter rather than same ratio for all chapters.
 

Far Reach

Conjurer
I suggest that this is an city building problem for individual players to address (since we can), rather than as a game balance issue needing developer attention. If folks have "a huge excess" of T3 goods, and a shortage of T1 and T2 then a natural solution is to mothball (teleport out) some T3 manufactories and replace them with T1 and T2. (This was perhaps a challenge which the devs intended when they chose to rebalance the average tournament catering requirements from equal amounts of the three tiers in the old tourney, to the standard trading ratios in the new tourney.)

I rebalanced my manufactories a couple of months ago, and now use similar amounts of all three tiers. (The tournament catering requirements are still extreme though.) Unfortunately there isn't such a simple solution for players (such as myself) with boosted scrolls ! That is something which can only be fixed by the devs.
 

Autumn Goldleaf

Spellcaster
I suggest that this is an city building problem for individual players to address (since we can), rather than as a game balance issue needing developer attention. If folks have "a huge excess" of T3 goods, and a shortage of T1 and T2 then a natural solution is to mothball (teleport out) some T3 manufactories and replace them with T1 and T2. (This was perhaps a challenge which the devs intended when they chose to rebalance the average tournament catering requirements from equal amounts of the three tiers in the old tourney, to the standard trading ratios in the new tourney.)

I rebalanced my manufactories a couple of months ago, and now use similar amounts of all three tiers. (The tournament catering requirements are still extreme though.) Unfortunately there isn't such a simple solution for players (such as myself) with boosted scrolls ! That is something which can only be fixed by the devs.
I am seeing this massive imbalance, even though I have 10xT1, 2xT2(Scrolls! Yuk!), and only 1xT3 in my city atm.... How many T1 do I NEED? Others in my FS have similar numbers...
20210108_131942.jpg
 

Far Reach

Conjurer
I am seeing this massive imbalance, even though I have 10xT1, 2xT2(Scrolls! Yuk!), and only 1xT3 in my city atm.... How many T1 do I NEED? Others in my FS have similar numbers...

I stand corrected.

I was writing from the perspective of an endgame city, in which the catering requirements were as I described. I recall that in the balance of catering goods requirements was different in earlier chapters though, and presumably that is what you are experiencing. (In other words, your catering requirements are much more focussed on T1 goods than will be the case in later chapters.)

If I'm understanding the situation correctly, your problem isn't isn't really with cross-tier trading, but just in getting enough T1 goods from any source. You haven't said what you need those goods for though. If you are using most for catering, then I'd suggest that (barring some of the extreme city builds which have been proposed), it isn't really possible to sustain large tournament scores through catering alone. If it is for research then this is a one off cost, and there are often pinch points around the availability of resources which need managing as you go through the chapters.
 

Autumn Goldleaf

Spellcaster
I stand corrected.

I was writing from the perspective of an endgame city, in which the catering requirements were as I described. I recall that in the balance of catering goods requirements was different in earlier chapters though, and presumably that is what you are experiencing. (In other words, your catering requirements are much more focussed on T1 goods than will be the case in later chapters.)

If I'm understanding the situation correctly, your problem isn't isn't really with cross-tier trading, but just in getting enough T1 goods from any source. You haven't said what you need those goods for though. If you are using most for catering, then I'd suggest that (barring some of the extreme city builds which have been proposed), it isn't really possible to sustain large tournament scores through catering alone. If it is for research then this is a one off cost, and there are often pinch points around the availability of resources which need managing as you go through the chapters.
Hi, no, not catering in Tournaments, except for a couple of provinces at the end of each round.... Most of my goods are going in building upgrades, and helping smaller cities get started in our FS...
I have had to cater a bit in the Spire... Hopefully soon I can get a Fire Phoenix going.... just waiting on Artifacts .... as fighting is too hard there for the most part...
I will say, that putting the extra T1 in is slowly bringing things back into balance.... Maybe this is what tbe devs want us to do, hence Bracelets change in FSA's?
 
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Gargon667

Mentor
I would suggest you get rid of those scroll factories and put in boosted T1 factories, if that is what you need more of.
You can then use cross-tier trading to get your scrolls (or other T2 obviously).
 

ickyelf

Seeker
Most of my goods are going in building upgrades, and helping smaller cities get started in our FS...

Hi @Autumn Goldleaf, I haven't looked at the detail of your Fellowship, and so this is part guess, part question, with no criticism intended:

Giving some help to smaller cities so that they can make progress a little faster and more easily is a good thing to do. It may be worth checking whether some are over-reliant on being able to post repeated 0 or 1 star trades that are reducing your ability to play and make progress. And - this may be less likely if they are mostly newer cities - is there a possibility that some have an excess of T2 and T3 production and not enough T1, which has led you to needing all the additional T1 manufactories to cover the demand?

Edits
I see that many in your FS also have large numbers of T1 manufactories as well, so some other ideas to consider:
1) Are all the members building boosted manufactories only?
2) Are they putting enough effort into the tournaments to gather the relics needed to boost their goods production?
3) Are you supplying some or many of them with goods, and that would be mainly T1 goods, so that they can contribute more to tournaments each week?
Some, all, or none of those might be factors as well.
Lastly, if you're negotiating regularly in the Spire, and going to the 3rd floor where costs escalate and its harder to solve in 3 rounds of guesses, then that's a drain on goods. It would really hit T1 hard if you don't have many more resources unlocked and taking some of the strain (Mana, Seeds, the various Sentient goods, for example).


There are some chapters where building upgrades call for more of one tier than the others, though this usually passes before long. All those T1s will certainly help for any future Fellowship Adventures where Bracelets are earned based on the volume of goods produced!

Hopefully something from the above helps you solve the riddle.
 
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FatehpurSikri

Alchemist
If you are using most for catering, then I'd suggest that (barring some of the extreme city builds which have been proposed), it isn't really possible to sustain large tournament scores through catering alone.

I have eight cities. I don't fight ever and am halfway through chapter 6. Am usually one of the top 5 scorers in my FS's tournament each week. I have on average 6 to 9 T1 boosted factories, about 4-5 T2 boosteds and 3 T3's. They're not all upgraded to the max. When does the difficulty in sustaining high scores in the tournament begin?
 

ickyelf

Seeker
Upgrade your Blooming Trade Guild.Mine is at lvl 11 & with surplus buying it gives nice amounts.Quite keen to see it at lvl 16 although it's 3rd or 4th on the list.

@steholl13

What do the numbers look like? So for example, how advanced is the city, what tournament scores are being achieved each week, and how many goods are bought from the Wholesaler each day at what cost?

Just idle curiosity, I don't cater tournaments and don't have BTG, so haven't got any numbers for reference.

It just occurs to me that negotiating parts of the Spire drain quite a lot of Coins (as that option is always there and I'd rather offer Coins than, say, Seeds or Sentient Goods).

And tournament encounters can demand quite large amounts of all resources (increasing the more encounters we tackle), including Coins, so how much would be left over for buying lots of Goods from the Wholesaler.

I happily dump excess Coins (and Supplies) on the first round of 6 standard goods each day, but try to find better uses or a different balance than accepting the second round of offers.

Obviously every upgrade of the BTG increases the costs for Spire and tournaments every week afterwards, but fighters would be upgrading combat orientated Wonders, so that's equivalent, for simplicity.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Catering in the tourney is still not more than a niche product (if you want to score big) I would think 5k every week would be nearly impossible for a 100% caterer (even the best caterer in the game), while it is nearly a dummy exercise for a 100% fighter (with an above average understanding of fighting).

Of course excluding specialty builds (5k should be an easy average for a special build minimum city caterer)

I would guess the best results for towns other than specialty builds, would be obtained by a town with 90-95% fighting and 5-10% catering?

A Bee is therefore reducing your tourney scores, not increasing it.

The 3 levels in the spire cost basically nothing, so the effects on the spire can be more or less ignored. I personally like the convincing mini-game, but fighting the spire is just as easy as convincing is. Either way, compared to what I spend on my weekly 10k+ tourneys, I don´t even notice the cost in either troops or goods...

As a comparison: I fight all 3 waves of the last boss in every encounter towards the end of the tourney (only I don´t get to split the 3 waves up, I have to do them all at once lol). I estimate that I use as many troops in a big 15k+ tourney as I would need for playing the spire for a year or something like that. That is if I autofight the spire. With manual fights i loose hardly any troops at all in the spire, but I don´t have time for that anymore, if I have time for manual fights I use them in the tourneys, where the big battles are fought.
 

ickyelf

Seeker
@Gargon667

Yep, my impression is as you outline; catering only city builds cannot match the tournament performance of combat orientated cities.

I'd hoped we might get some numbers from catering cities on what BTG provides to support tournament scores, so that it's in context for anyone considering building or upgrading that Wonder.

I agree that for combat cities, investing in BTG is going to realistically reduce the ability to score tournament points. Some will get some value from its power to increase guest race production. But that's at best situational, and mostly negated by PPs.
 

ickyelf

Seeker
Not in the last chapters.

Yeah, that's why I included 'but that's at best situational' in that comment.

I'm maybe close-ish to an average player, certainly for progress. Currently in Chapter 15, playing for nearly 2 years. Have not missed BTG at all. If, and its a sizeable if right now, I push on through the later chapters, that might be a time I build BTG to level 6, with the intent to nuke it as soon as its no longer giving enough benefit.

Getting to the end of Chapter 15 could take a broad cross section of players anything from 18 months to 2½ years, maybe longer. Some will quit before the end of 15. Some more will pause somewhere along the way, particularly those that are aware of the way Spire and tournament costs are calculated (fine work by the way, kudos!). Just trying to draw out meaningful information for those that are contemplating investing in that Wonder to be able to make an informed decision.
 
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