From This Or Your Previous Chapter?

[DeletedUser3533]

What happened to "If your preferred manufactury type is small build many of them"?

Instead, in order to get teddy bear buildings, I need to buy expansions to fit large manufacturies in - brilliant plan to get your hands on some money.
Unfortunately I'm going for option 2:
No more Elvenar

Officially throwing teddy in the corner, bye bye

 

[Deleted User - 1759805]

What happened to "If your preferred manufactury type is small build many of them"?

This was always an advice to early game players, where same chapter manufactories have very different sizes. I don't think it was ever an endorsement of sticking with lower lever manufactories.

 

[Lelanya]

I have to agree with the Ogrewookie: this advice is still in the log in screen

 

[Timneh]

I also agree with @Ogre Wookie and @Lelanya if it is indeed aimed at early game players then it should say that.

 

[DeletedUser8409]

I respectfully disagree. It's clearly aimed at players who don't know much. If you've been playing for years and are still listening to beginners tool tips for advice I think that says more about you than the game.

One tooltip at login says you eventually can't have 170% without neighbours help. But I do having finished Constructs and placed lots of event buildings. Is the tooltip wrong or is it right for most players and I am the exception?

I think, especially given how many fellows unlike me ask for culture it is the latter and I'm smart enough to realise not to ask for culture as it won't help me.

 

[DeletedUser8632]

I respectfully disagree with your respectful disagreement but as a not-so-long-ago new player I did in fact listen and heed the advice of the Elvenar Team. I mean, where do you actually get your advise? From a forum that gives you such helpful advise as "how many factories you need depends on your level" or the people who actually build that game?

I mean, what you are saying is basically "I don't think education is necessary, if you work long enough in a job you'll get good all by yourself".

 

[Deleted User - 1634960]

@Ogre Wookie
You do not need to buy expansions. Sell some of your smaller Manufactories and upgrade others to standard. Each Chapter upgrade gives a significant boost to production for a (relatively) small cost in space.
@tesla333
Education is not necessary, if you know how to learn from the job.
I spent 25 years in formal education before being let loose in the world, the other 45 years have been spent learning other things. Guess which knowledge has proven more useful

The progression of science degrees in the US says it all:
First is a Bachelor of Science abbreviated to BS, and we all know what BS is
Next is the Master of Science or MS, which is just More of the Same.
Last is the PhD, which is just Piled higher and Deeper.
(told to me by my brother who is a PhD in Chemistry)

 

[DeletedUser6357]

can't have 170% without neighbours help

I currently have a 373% culture with no help from neighbors.

The main problems in the game are two:
1. The game has changed dramatically - now you can have enough resources without having any manufactories, for example.
2. Innogames does not consider it necessary to spend money to change outdated things.

 

[LazyTony]

Each Chapter upgrade gives a significant boost to production for a (relatively) small cost in space.

Not true I'm afraid for the last 3 or 4 chapters, when you allocate the space required for pop and culture required for the upgrade. Factories have been getting (slightly) less efficient in output per tile for a while now.

I did the numbers a while ago and have mislaid them, but I even started a forum topic on this point back around halflings chapter and all the other posters agreed with my numbers.

 

[Killiak]

Per tile; sure
In absolute numbers; the only way is up.

 

[DeletedUser]

Factories have been getting (slightly) less efficient in output per tile for a while now.

It is true that efficiency is not alway there with the respective chapter upgrades, however the moment is shifting up, the gap getting smaller, with each chapter you advance. Also the shift moment for each tier is different, T1 goes first, then 2 then 3. By say Amuni it really doesn't matter anymore.

 

[LazyTony]

By say Amuni it really doesn't matter anymore.

I'd like to run the numbers again to confirm this for the most recent chapters. Which tier do you think is slightly more efficient at which chapter after an upgrade? Would you like me to make reasonable assumptions of your average pop and culture per tile, or provide me with accurate ones?

 

[DeletedUser6357]

(relatively) small cost in space.

This is a very Byzantine statement.
The higher the level of a manufactory, the less effective it is in the city's balance sheet.
Yes, the yield is higher. But the efficiency is lower.
Just like in any modern corporation.
The price of an upgrade should not be called small cost, when performance drops.

 

[Deleted User - 1759805]

This is a very Byzantine statement.
The higher the level of a manufactory, the less effective it is in the city's balance sheet.
Yes, the yield is higher. But the efficiency is lower.
Just like in any modern corporation.
The price of an upgrade should not be called small cost, when performance drops.

Unfortunately, it's not all that black and white when we have to deal with discrete (and chunky) items. Even if, say, per tile L27 is slightly worse than L24 (I didn't check, but let's say it is), and you have 1 L24 manufactory in your city, what are your options of increasing production? You can upgrade L24 to L27, and get increase of say 10% (again, arbitrary number - I haven't checked) - perhaps with worse per-tile efficiency. But what is your alternative? You would like to add 10% of another L24 to keep higher per-tile efficiency. Alas, you can't. And getting a second L24 might be way too much - while it might be more efficient per tile, you would use A LOT more space in total for the output you may not need.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'd like to run the numbers again to confirm this for the most recent chapters. Which tier do you think is slightly more efficient at which chapter after an upgrade? Would you like me to make reasonable assumptions of your average pop and culture per tile, or provide me with accurate ones?

It's all moot with the new event system, one can no longer be efficient.

@MinMax I think the point here is if level 10 is the most efficient one can place only level 10. But alas with the changes made to events this is no longer a viable option, and the "Build your city how you like it" is out the window.

 

[FieryArien]

Unfortunately, it's not all that black and white when we have to deal with discrete (and chunky) items. Even if, say, per tile L27 is slightly worse than L24 (I didn't check, but let's say it is), and you have 1 L24 manufactory in your city, what are your options of increasing production? You can upgrade L24 to L27, and get increase of say 10% (again, arbitrary number - I haven't checked) - perhaps with worse per-tile efficiency. But what is your alternative? You would like to add 10% of another L24 to keep higher per-tile efficiency. Alas, you can't. And getting a second L24 might be way too much - while it might be more efficient per tile, you would use A LOT more space in total for the output you may not need.

When you know about this (per square efficiency downgrade), you don’t build your manufactories up to recent technology. I knew about this since the “superior” manufactories (counted myself and was very surprised by results) and my manufactories used to be not few levels, but technology behind. When my population density increased, I upgraded my manufactories again, but by that time there was already new technology researched. When you have smaller manufactories, you can indeed build a new one to increase your production. I did. It indeed is not all that black and white.

Of course this event crashed my city design to pieces. All my T1 manufactories are at 24th level now.

PS: the “smaller manufactories” concept has also some disadvantages. First of all more tapping (clicking) each and every time you launch (higher number of) manufactories! And also the need to use more MM spells when (rarely) the need for short term increase comes.

 

[LazyTony]

It's all moot with the new event system, one can no longer be efficient.

Its not moot when CMs tell those making complaints that upgrading is more efficient anyway. Its not.

 

[DeletedUser7762]

Many upgrades in the later chapters are far too big when you also have to place other buildings required to do a chapter.
I play every day unless I lose my internet connection, and I prefer the smaller factories to actually have an option of advancement in the game.
Take the Woodelves chapter, the Weeping Willows use 5x5 per unit and you need a lot of them to have any hope of finishing the chapter in any kind of reasonable time... often getting stuck waiting for more Mana to get anywhere.
They are gonna lose a lot of dedicated players if that demand for upgraded building production continues.

 

[DeletedUser8409]

Many upgrades in the later chapters are far too big when you also have to place other buildings required to do a chapter.
I play every day unless I lose my internet connection, and I prefer the smaller factories to actually have an option of advancement in the game.
Take the Woodelves chapter, the Weeping Willows use 5x5 per unit and you need a lot of them to have any hope of finishing the chapter in any kind of reasonable time... often getting stuck waiting for more Mana to get anywhere.
They are gonna lose a lot of dedicated players if that demand for upgraded building production continues.

Don't close off other options, there are many ways to skin a cat and many ways to play this game.

Take for example Mana - Weeping Willows are the very basic and first major Mana building. As an introduction to Mana its perfectly fine but there are other buildings available.

Almost every event gives multiple options for Mana like the Magical Mana Hut or Manta Ray etc these are far better than basic buildings.

The Spire gives permanent buildings as a reward that are even better than event buildings too.

The Weeping Willow in Woodelves chapter gives 7.47 mana / square / hour
Magical Mana Hut in Woodelves chapter 22.92 mana / square / hour
The Spire's Mana Plant in Woodelves chapter gives 13.33 mana / square / hour without set bonus and 40 mana / square / hour with set bonus.

Another way of looking at it is that the Willow generates 4480 mana per day.

Willows requires 25 tiles to generate that.
Magical Mana Hut requires 8.15 tiles to generate that.
Mana Plant [with Set Bonus] requires 4.66 tiles to generate that.

Making the most of events and Spire is a challenge but it helps you tremendously and with RR spells you can carry your Mana Plants and Mana Huts with you.

 

[DeletedUser7762]

Don't close off other options, there are many ways to skin a cat and many ways to play this game.

Take for example Mana - Weeping Willows are the very basic and first major Mana building. As an introduction to Mana its perfectly fine but there are other buildings available.

Almost every event gives multiple options for Mana like the Magical Mana Hut or Manta Ray etc these are far better than basic buildings.

The Spire gives permanent buildings as a reward that are even better than event buildings too.

The Weeping Willow in Woodelves chapter gives 7.47 mana / square / hour
Magical Mana Hut in Woodelves chapter 22.92 mana / square / hour
The Spire's Mana Plant in Woodelves chapter gives 13.33 mana / square / hour without set bonus and 40 mana / square / hour with set bonus.

Another way of looking at it is that the Willow generates 4480 mana per day.

Willows requires 25 tiles to generate that.
Magical Mana Hut requires 8.15 tiles to generate that.
Mana Plant [with Set Bonus] requires 4.66 tiles to generate that.

Making the most of events and Spire is a challenge but it helps you tremendously and with RR spells you can carry your Mana Plants and Mana Huts with you.

The problem for me personally is that I don't like many of the buildings in this game... Quite a few are simply ugly as f'*** and I won't put them in my city. But thanks for the advice, I'll have to look into the Mana Hut.