Forced to build Magic Academy ?!?!?

[DeletedUser]

a player that's ranked 4th

You should find a few minutes to read through http://mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm. The author does a nice job of categorizing MUD players into four classes.

• Achievers like to focus on their score. They're necessarily pretty good at spreadsheets and the like, but if something doesn't increase one's score, then it's not very important.
• Explorers like to understand how the game works, but they couldn't care less about scores. They're really good at spreadsheets and analysis, but once they understand HOW to do something, they move on to something else that needs to be understood.
• Socializers don't mind playing the game, so long as it's not TOO much trouble and there are lots of ponies, but it's the players who are important, not the game itself.
• Killers (or Control Freaks in our case) keep the socializers in check; they cull the herd. The Killers' favorite prey is folks who only THINK they're achievers. Killers avoid Explorers, because a pissed off Explorer is really bad news for a Killer.

 

[DeletedUser1683]

Elvenar bosses .. you need to tell us soon where this Magic Academy is going, why you are so keen to make us build it and use it or you WILL find you WILL lose quite a few on this issue.

Thanks Gem.

 

[DeletedUser1683]

Lol. I wonder who that might be?

Okay, seriously now, I've stated my opinion on this Magic Academy numerous times throughout the forums. I was even delighted about this feature at first, yet I honestly never made use of it once (and I did build it as soon as its construction required zero boosted relics). I even did a fairly in-depth review on the effectiveness of the Magic Academy here.

I'd just like to add to this thread, that I'm reducing my time spent in-game due to the direction the devs have taken. This game was intended for me to have fun in my spare time. The amount of fun I've had has been decreasing from one month to the next. Not because I ever felt like there's nothing left for me to do, or many of the actions have become far too repetitive, but because I've found myself clinging on to an idea and the hope that this game will become better at some point in the future. That I might, for whatever odd reason, gain the freedom to truly build or play the way I want to.

Within the first week of playing this game I got stuck on the main quest line because I refuse to build a barracks. Six months later, I'm still hoping the quest requiring me to build the barracks will become declinable, or that the barracks become deletable. During that time, more and more restrictions have been implemented within the game.

• You must research Ancient Wonders to progress in the tech tree.
• You must scout a certain number of provinces to unlock new chapters.
• You must delete your guest race portal to build the next race's portal.
• You must research the Magic Academy within the tech tree, along with its additional spell(s).
• You must build the Magic Academy.

This game is still advertised as the following on the Elvenar homepage (just as it was when I started):


Let's be honest here. That's never been entirely true. The last six months made it clear it's never going to become true either.

This game had potential. It still has potential. Sadly many good players, will never get to see it. They'll have moved on by then - and I can't blame them.

~ Valerius

Firstly, I recognise I have a lot of work to do on my "follow like a sheep and don't complain" side. Sorry for that, can't say it's high on my priorities either! lol

Secondly. Valerius is already trading less with me, as are nearly all of my trading neighbours. Doing the polishing rounds has shown a sudden drop in activity both inside and outside my FS. The game depends on player interaction and as that decreases, you well know it will take on a spiralling effect. I am guessing it won't be long (it's already happening) before players start giving bad reviews and warning others to avoid Elvenar.

As the game begins it's death throws the players who have spend many hundreds of dollars are going to start questioning their investment.

As Valerius has said, you advertise the game as one in which players have FREEDOM to play the way they want to. It is time for you to prove it!

 

[DeletedUser971]

Why try and force us to build something that is incomplete and not needed by most. If it was a fully functioning upgradable building that started smaller and was of benefit with real spells that actually worked better than scrolling thru the quests, then I would build it with a smile.

 

[DeletedUser]

I cannot help but feel the need to reply to Katwijk above.

Reading some person's analysis of types of MUD players is entirely irrelevant to the conversation. This game is not a MUD. It has extremely little in common with a MUD, and by extremely little I mean just about nothing in common other than the criteria of being categorized as a "game" and perhaps being able to say it is "fantasy themed." 20 years ago I was quite a mudder, and to this day there are no fantasy-style games that have the same level of depth, opportunity, integration, and imagination as did the great MUDs of old. I don't play MUDs now because I am a husband and father and am tied up with all the responsibilities tied to that. Elvenar is a city-building game where I can log on four times a day for less than one minute each time and click the mouse several times to keep my city going. To compare styles of MUD players to styles of players on Elvenar makes no sense and has no intellectual benefit whatsoever. I will go so far as to say I find it half offensive that you so casually try to make such a comparison.

Unlike a mud, the lack of score associated with a particular city in Elvenar does reflect, to a great deal, the experience that can possibly be had based solely upon that city. I don't need score in a MUD to have explored most every room inside of it, and to have it mapped out entirely giving me superior knowledge for travel compared to high level players that do nothing but xp in the woods outside the main city. But in Elvenar, I do have to actually have a manufactory to produce goods, I do have to have houses to have population, and so on. Certainly on the server on which I play, at the time of this writing, Katwijk does not have a Magic Academy. Perhaps Katwijk does have a MA with another player account, I don't know. But forgive me if when a player without a MA acts as a MA apologist, I find such a defence to fall quite flat.

 

[DeletedUser1683]

Oh sure, that's why there's no advertising on TV.
You can just give people what they want, so what's the point in trying to influence their decisions?

I suggest you read a few books on marketing, they seem to have evaded you.

 

[DeletedUser971]

why don't you guys give us a flow chart of what direction the game is going to take. what comes after fairies, what add in's we will have to do to satisfy the developers, what will be mandatory. there does not need to be a time line, because that is something that is hard to keep to if the MA is anything to go by been added after almost a year into the game.

 

[DeletedUser415]

As the game begins it's death throws the players who have spend many hundreds of dollars are going to start questioning their investment.

Already there.

Well I just wanted to say thanks to Inno (whoever you may be) for quest blocking me and making the game even less enjoyable with this MA issue we are having.

Here's a thought- Why doesn't Inno quit regressing the game adding stuff in really early chapters. Let's just move on and give us new content and quit making mandatory builds that require diamonds to upgrade it and can't be deleted.
What's Next- Is Inno going to start making us buy premium culture buildings in the story line?

 

[DeletedUser219]

I suggest you read a few books on marketing, they seem to have evaded you.

I suggest you read a few books on marketing that were NOT written by Donald Trump. Any true businessperson will tell you that giving people what they WANT will give you a quick influx of funds but no long-term stability. The secret to success is giving people what they NEED. In this case, a game where you can build, largely the way you want in accordance with the parameters of the game, without having to worry about whether your neighbors are feral twits who have no concept of live and let live.
Henry Ford built a company on this premise, and made it a success by convincing his customers that what they NEEDED was also what they WANTED.

 

[DeletedUser1683]

I suggest you read a few books on marketing that were NOT written by Donald Trump. Any true businessperson will tell you that giving people what they WANT will give you a quick influx of funds but no long-term stability. The secret to success is giving people what they NEED. In this case, a game where you can build, largely the way you want in accordance with the parameters of the game, without having to worry about whether your neighbors are feral twits who have no concept of live and let live.
Henry Ford built a company on this premise, and made it a success by convincing his customers that what they NEEDED was also what they WANTED.

I am not going to join you in a political debate.

Regardless of whether you agree with my marketing statement. It is clear that we have been given a game feature that the vast majority of players do not want. Now, you can choose to ignore that and start up your own little debates over something quite irrelevant, but don't expect me to join in.

 

[DeletedUser219]

What I object to is sweeping generalities without a strong basis in fact. You have stated in several places that 'the vast majority' of players do not want this feature. To bear out this statement we have the fact that of 1739 (as of this writing) players who have bothered to join the forums, 7 have deigned to vote in your 'poll'. That's 4/10 of one percent of the players who care most about this game who care enough to click on your poll. When you compare that to the number of active players (just in Arendyll, as I am not in Winyandor) who haven't even joined the forum, even your actuarial brother should say that's not a statistically valid sample.

Add to that the fact that most of the 'pages of negative comment' that have been made about this feature have also been made by relatively few people and you start getting a picure closely related to what used to be called a tempest in a teapot.

And the whole issue of 'Inno doesn't listen' doesn't really wash either. We are all stuck with operating systems, that we paid for, that are designed, bugs and all, to run our computers the way Microsoft or Apple think they ought to be run. And they clamor about how wonderful and innovative they are. Given that example, you can hardly expect Elvenar to go back to alpha to be redesigned the way you think it ought to.

tl;dr version: Suck it up, cupcake and try making constructive suggestions on how the freight train can be turned.

 

[DeletedUser]

To compare styles of MUD players to styles of players on Elvenar makes no sense and has no intellectual benefit whatsoever. I will go so far as to say I find it half offensive that you so casually try to make such a comparison.

Perhaps you'll find a soulmate at http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/rebelwithoutclue.htm

 

[DeletedUser]

Um, Horanda, you are having an incredible amount of trouble keeping things straight and making valid assertions. You just responded to Penjara. I doubt his brother is an actuarial fellow. You probably got that from me in a different post elsewhere. While few people sign up to and participate in the forum, unless you can identify a convincing reason to believe that more people of one viewpoint would sign up than the other, the sample size that we have is a far more reasonable starting point than a blind assumption that more people would think to the contrary. Panjera at least tried to back up his view with a poll. The MA apologists' arguments are unfounded.

You are full of blind assertions:

We are all stuck with operating systems, that we paid for, that are designed, bugs and all, to run our computers the way Microsoft or Apple think they ought to be run.

I have not paid for an operating system in well over a decade. The operating system I use is not one I ever paid for. The operating system I use is not Microsoft nor is it Apple. The operating system I use works exactly how I think it ought to run. If I was stuck with Windows or OSX my computer would not be capable of doing many of the things that I require it to do. I don't compile my own operating system from open-source utilities like I used to do, and my OS is made by an organization I do not have control nor influence over, but even if a piece of my operating system would not work just so, I can still edit the source code for that particular part that I would like to act differently, recompile, and make it work as I require.

Again, blindly making a statement, and then adding a helping of indignation, does not make something true.

Also, posting links to obscure locations where somebody vomited something onto the web does not make a person right--a tactic repeatedly used by Katwijk. Regardless of how ridiculous or how tasteless a viewpoint may be, I assure you someone on the web has posted a defence to it. Ironically, posting such a link as Katwijk just posted is the very act of clueless, crass petulance that he is attempting to define.

 

[DeletedUser417]

I have to admit in some chapters the MA is not that useful but once you get to the fairies you will be glad you have it built because every residence upgrade takes over 20k supplies so the supplies spells are a godsend. Also, if you completed over 200 provinces, like me , you also know that provinces are getting really expensive. So again, you can produce spells to a. make more supplies to train units, or b. produce more goods to negotiate or you will be waiting for a long time to have enough supplies to do all.

Smaller players should know that this game is built to enjoy it on the long term. It won't be done in a month. And you won't get to the top without any serious efforts (if you don't use diamonds to buy your way up quick). On Arendyll it took me since early september to get where I am now.

Because I was prepared it took me a bit less on Winyandor Don't hesitate to visit my cities, I got a MA in both up and running 24/7

 

[DeletedUser1683]

What I object to is sweeping generalities without a strong basis in fact. You have stated in several places that 'the vast majority' of players do not want this feature. To bear out this statement we have the fact that of 1739 (as of this writing) players who have bothered to join the forums, 7 have deigned to vote in your 'poll'. That's 4/10 of one percent of the players who care most about this game who care enough to click on your poll. When you compare that to the number of active players (just in Arendyll, as I am not in Winyandor) who haven't even joined the forum, even your actuarial brother should say that's not a statistically valid sample.

Add to that the fact that most of the 'pages of negative comment' that have been made about this feature have also been made by relatively few people and you start getting a picure closely related to what used to be called a tempest in a teapot.

And the whole issue of 'Inno doesn't listen' doesn't really wash either. We are all stuck with operating systems, that we paid for, that are designed, bugs and all, to run our computers the way Microsoft or Apple think they ought to be run. And they clamor about how wonderful and innovative they are. Given that example, you can hardly expect Elvenar to go back to alpha to be redesigned the way you think it ought to.

tl;dr version: Suck it up, cupcake and try making constructive suggestions on how the freight train can be turned.

More people have voted. It's still 75% against. I could argue that most of the players who aren't happy have left the game completely.

I'm here to talk about this game, not Microsoft or anyone or anything else. Is your argument REALLY based around, "everything else is messed up, so why shouldn't Elvenar be messed up, too?". I think you're going to have more of an argument with the developers than I am! I, at least, believe to be fundamentally sound and worth playing - or I would have left long ago.

(P.S. Look at MS and the Start button. It appears your knowledge of IT is as lacking as your knowledge of marketing.)

No I will not suck it up. And that statement from you alone is an admission that the MA is a fiasco.

 

[DeletedUser417]

More people have voted. It's still 75% against.

Have you checked their city size, where they are in the game? I think the people playing in the fairy chapter don't agree with you. But wind yourself up over things in real life that really matter to be wound up about, play for a while and then come back ;-)

The people that have quit have either worked their way up too quick to be at the top and are bored now. The smaller players prob thinking things don't go fast enough to actually make a speedy progress. It takes skills, planning, time and insight to be successful at this game. Maybe it's just not your game.

 

[DeletedUser]

I think the people playing in the fairy chapter don't agree with you.

You think that based upon what, exactly? We already know how you feel.

 

[DeletedUser417]

You think that based upon what, exactly? We already know how you feel.

Ask again when you're in the fairy chapter ;-)

 

[DeletedUser]

Ask again when you're in the fairy chapter ;-)

So you admit the assumption is entirely ego-centric on your part. Thanks.

 

[DeletedUser417]

Just the experienced players that got to fairy chapter. Please read back the line you quoted: "People playing in the fairy chapter." (thousands all over the world). FYI: my last comment in this useless thread.