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Forced to build Magic Academy ?!?!?

oldskoolrx7

Guest
That pretty much depends how much of a hurry you're in. Once you've acquired ENOUGH sectors to open the next Advance Scouting chest, it's sort of crazy to more on scouting than need be. At that point it makes total sense to do Tournaments while you're wait for the 25% cost reduction, and larger squad sizes, that will be available in the subsequent chapter.
While this is completely true, it misses a fundamental aspect of the game, that of compromise and bottlenecks. (not debating if that method is good or bad)
By adding tournaments and using them as you quite reasonably suggest, you use significantly more supplies to make the troops. If you are speeding through as fast as you can, you will only have enough workshops to make enough armies to get through the scouting missions. To ALSO run tournaments, you need more workshops (and also more than you will need end game) and something else has to suffer. Perhaps the RP rewards are worth it, as this is the direct way to trade supplies for RP. Until some math is done, tournaments look like a drain with little gain, until you get near end game. Plus they don't work as designed for some people.

So to relate this to the topic, Tournaments do NOT make the MA worthwhile, as they both are not implemented properly and they take away your progress. Tournaments and MA both suffer from a lack of foresight and an unwillingness to fix them. Or being ok with putting out substandard fare.
 

CrazyWizard

Scholar
new spell coming....

from beta
A new Spell, Inspiring Meditation, is available for those who have unlocked the Magical Inspirations (previously: Manufactory Spell) technology in the third Chapter in the research tree. With this new Spell you will be able to temporarily double the amount of hourly Knowledge Points you can store, so that you do not lose Knowledge Points when you cannot be there for longer than 10 hours. The new maximum amount of Knowledge Points you can collect this way is 20, and the Spell will be active for 2 days.

to be honest this isn't bad at all ,at least for me since I am losing 8 to 10 KP daily cause I am not able to login....

opinions?
A nice gimmick spell for thats usefull for a few people, if I had a magic academy I would probebly make a few just for the sake of when I am away for a day abroad or so and I can't login.

But more than a gimmick it aint, I would not want to build the academy for this spell. or a dozen spells like this, why, it doesnt add something to my game thats permanently usefull.
 

oldskoolrx7

Guest
A nice gimmick spell for thats usefull for a few people, if I had a magic academy I would probebly make a few just for the sake of when I am away for a day abroad or so and I can't login.

But more than a gimmick it aint, I would not want to build the academy for this spell. or a dozen spells like this, why, it doesnt add something to my game thats permanently usefull.
Because they are not listening to their players.
"We hear that the MA needs to be better" > makes a spell like the others. *eye roll*
 

s5carrot

Sorcerer
Blah Blah Blah
And the whimpering continues..

Were there cries when the AW was up? How about now? Does it mean all of them must be removed just because of a few vocal demands?

To be specific, since you so insistent on claiming Majority agrees with your demand to delete, count the number of people actually playing the game against the number who replied. Most have little to no interest or would wish to see how things develop.

Same analogy applies to a country or state. Just because some guy wants to run Syrian court without obeying the laws of the nation, does it justify his cause? If it does, the country would be at war on its own daily just based on this alone.
 

oldskoolrx7

Guest
Blah Blah Blah
And the whimpering continues..

Were there cries when the AW was up? How about now? Does it mean all of them must be removed just because of a few vocal demands?

To be specific, since you so insistent on claiming Majority agrees with your demand to delete, count the number of people actually playing the game against the number who replied. Most have little to no interest or would wish to see how things develop.

Same analogy applies to a country or state. Just because some guy wants to run Syrian court without obeying the laws of the nation, does it justify his cause? If it does, the country would be at war on its own daily just based on this alone.
Oh dear.

"Count the number of people playing the game, against those that replied"
You know that is completely the same as "Count the number of people who's opinion I have no actual idea about, then compare it to the people I DO know their opinion"

See how that is totally, unequivocally wrong? Would you like more of an explanation, or would you care to rephrase?

I can deal with your example after you explain how you are calculating a majority without actually having the data from the majority..

@s5carrot

You are completly missing the point, those wonders aren't mandatory to build, MA is.
It's like comparing an apple with a pear, both are fruits but comparing them to eachother doesnt make sense since an apple is not a pear and a pear is not an apple.
You forgot to mention that S5carrot also then used an example where they stated that the MINORITY should not make the rules, which is exactly what we are saying... The majority should generally rule. Show me the majority is not with me and I will stop asking for things. You are correct, they just don't understand.

Edited: Aider - 2016-5-15 - Multiple Posts (Merged)
 
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Lynxze

Soothsayer
Blah Blah Blah
And the whimpering continues..

Were there cries when the AW was up? How about now? Does it mean all of them must be removed just because of a few vocal demands?

To be specific, since you so insistent on claiming Majority agrees with your demand to delete, count the number of people actually playing the game against the number who replied. Most have little to no interest or would wish to see how things develop.

Same analogy applies to a country or state. Just because some guy wants to run Syrian court without obeying the laws of the nation, does it justify his cause? If it does, the country would be at war on its own daily just based on this alone.
Very flawed argument to say that all players that plays the game and doesn't check the forums are against not making the MA deletable, cause that's what we're talking about here isn't it? Alot of people wants to be given the choice of having the MA or getting rid of it, not remove it from the game.

I'm 99% sure that if there was a poll that said: Make the MA deletable yes/no, that it would turn out to be a very onesided vote to the yes side. I mean, what harm would it do? The ones who likes the building keeps it, the ones who doesn't removes it and the ability to use spells of course with that.

It blows my mind that people would be against giving people this option, honestly.
 
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Slotharingia

Guest
I'd like this spell if it doubled the amount of kp you get / hour for 2 days :D As it is, it will be useful for some, but not for me personally, as my inability to log on is almost always unforeseen :D It would be useful for when ppl upgrade aw's you donated to, but you rarely know when they will happen :D

As for the arguments above saying ppl have to shut up about the MA, I honestly cannot see the point in posting in threads ordering people stating their opinions to stop stating them. The forum is for feedback, after all, and ppl are just asking for the MA to be non mandatory or more tangibly useful :p It's not comparable to someone overthrowing a government on their own because they want a law forcing ppl to be nude, for instance. In fact, I'd say telling pl not to say what they think in a forum that asks for feedback is more akin to that :D Also, as regards AW, quite a few ppl have refrained from building them because they do not find them useful. ;)
 
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s5carrot

Sorcerer
Oh dear.

You forgot to mention that S5carrot also then used an example where they stated that the MINORITY should not make the rules, which is exactly what we are saying... The majority should generally rule. Show me the majority is not with me and I will stop asking for things. You are correct, they just don't understand.

Edited: Aider - 2016-5-15 - Multiple Posts (Merged)
It is already shown. There are much more players on this game then those who replied. You cant decide whether if they are on your side or the other.

Very flawed argument to say that all players that plays the game and doesn't check the forums are against not making the MA deletable, cause that's what we're talking about here isn't it? Alot of people wants to be given the choice of having the MA or getting rid of it, not remove it from the game.

I'm 99% sure that if there was a poll that said: Make the MA deletable yes/no, that it would turn out to be a very onesided vote to the yes side. I mean, what harm would it do? The ones who likes the building keeps it, the ones who doesn't removes it and the ability to use spells of course with that.

It blows my mind that people would be against giving people this option, honestly.
I have mentioned before the poll here does not stand for the majority. Even if you simply look at the number of players registered here in the forums, the polls for delete MA are hardly a considerable number as compared to those who did not vote here in the forums. :rolleyes:

As for the polls, which would very unlikely be disclosed would be the one conducted by the game developers that has the more conclusive answer to this debate. :p

@s5carrot

You are completly missing the point, those wonders aren't mandatory to build, MA is.
It's like comparing an apple with a pear, both are fruits but comparing them to eachother doesnt make sense since an apple is not a pear and a pear is not an apple.
The research is mandatorial as per the AW.
The mandatorial quest to build does not forbid you to pursue the next mandate quest at best, but it does not deter you from continuing the game. :confused: Or you are claiming otherwise?
 

CrazyWizard

Scholar
The research is mandatorial as per the AW.
The mandatorial quest to build does not forbid you to pursue the next mandate quest at best, but it does not deter you from continuing the game. :confused: Or you are claiming otherwise?
Yes I do claim otherwise.

for 1 there is no quest that makes it mandatory to build a wonder, and even if it did, you could simply delete it again.
And yes it does disallow me to continuing this game, because without building it I can not access a serious portion of this game, namely all quest that come after it. and with quests come the ability to have an alternative source of income in for of goods, coins and supplies.

So yes not building the Academy DOES break my game, UNLESS I was already past the nooby stage. in that case I might have an ADVANTAGE over others because I DO NOT need to build it to get the quest required to simplify the game and getting better rewards while OTHERS do need to build it to access the same gameplay.

Are you claiming otherwise?
 

oldskoolrx7

Guest
It is already shown. There are many* more players on this game then those who replied. You can't* decide whether if they are on your side or the other.
"You cannot decide whether if they are on your side or the other"
Glad to see you changed your mind on that, since earlier you were claiming them for your "side". Since you actually got it right, I will reword what I said previously, which has the same result, shockingly...
(in the new poll, reworded to get rid of bias you complained about)
Of all the people who voted, the MA is not liked. Of all the people who didn't vote, we know nothing about them, so can't make any conclusions. Well, unless you use a sample to extrapolate what the population is likely to answer. Pretty sure that is exactly show polls work? Like everywhere in the world? Politics, health etc. Your ONLY defense is that it is not a significant enough sample, which you will have to show some math for. Even then, NOT ONE person of all the votes liked it as is.
I doubt very much that you will provide the maths, the last person I asked to provide math proof never did (Katwijk) Yours is easier though, feel free.
 

Aeriavel

Alchemist
Of all the people who voted, the MA is not liked.
This is something you cannot infer from that poll.
The options in the poll are: leave it as it is or make it more powerfull. Obviously everyone votes for a more powerfull building. That, however, does not mean they don't like it (though I agree that's probably the case).

"Your ONLY defense is that it is not a significant enough sample, which you will have to show some math for.
It is a very good defense in my opinion since I heavily doubt that the players registered in the forum are a good representation of the average player.
Also I'm sure Inno is monitoring the ingame use of the MA. This might give a completely different feedback than the poll here in the forum.
 

oldskoolrx7

Guest
This is something you cannot infer from that poll.
The options in the poll are: leave it as it is or make it more powerfull. Obviously everyone votes for a more powerfull building. That, however, does not mean they don't like it (though I agree that's probably the case).
Hmm. You make a good point. I am not sure how you would resolve that (except with another poll). I would say though that there is a small logic flaw in your argument, in that IF someone DIDN'T say yes to keeping it the same, wouldn't they therefore choose the HIGHEST option?
The percentages show that people actually chose the middle, rather than the top option. This implies that anyone choosing the middle option (more but not more powerful) does in fact think it needs improvement.
A bunch of suppositions, you point is not invalidated.

Same as being removable, this poll doesn't give an accurate reading on that either.
 

Aeriavel

Alchemist
I would say though that there is a small logic flaw in your argument, in that IF someone DIDN'T say yes to keeping it the same, wouldn't they therefore choose the HIGHEST option?
The percentages show that people actually chose the middle, rather than the top option. This implies that anyone choosing the middle option (more but not more powerful) does in fact think it needs improvement.
What is the highest option in your opinion?
The two options with tho most votes want a smaller building AND better spells.
Options to just change the size OR the spells got much less votes...

I don't know how to fix the poll, or how to fix the MA such that all (INNO and all players) are happy. I'm just pointing at some difficulties in assessing the mood.

What I'd prefer most right now, is a statement by the devs. It would be very nice to know their opinion:
a reduction in size: won't ever happen because ... OR we are working on it
better / permanent / more spells: we are looking into ... OR nothing will change because...
 

Slotharingia

Guest
What I'd prefer most right now, is a statement by the devs. It would be very nice to know their opinion:
a reduction in size: won't ever happen because ... OR we are working on it
better / permanent / more spells: we are looking into ... OR nothing will change because...
Judging from official statements made, the MA will stay the same size, undeletable and mandatory with the same kind of spells it has now, but more of them (which people who do not like it will probably find equally useless). I do not get the impression they even intend to implement extremely soft-core suggestions such as changing spells to apply to x cycles as opposed to x hours, the latter of which makes the spells even more useless to all but people who are online 24-7 with a timer to reminded them when exactly to harvest their goods.
 

Penjara

Conjurer
I am confused as to why some of you insist on discussing AW's and Tournements, for example, on this thread.

Is the title of my thread confusing for you?
 

s5carrot

Sorcerer
Yes I do claim otherwise.

for 1 there is no quest that makes it mandatory to build a wonder, and even if it did, you could simply delete it again.
And yes it does disallow me to continuing this game, because without building it I can not access a serious portion of this game, namely all quest that come after it. and with quests come the ability to have an alternative source of income in for of goods, coins and supplies.

So yes not building the Academy DOES break my game, UNLESS I was already past the nooby stage. in that case I might have an ADVANTAGE over others because I DO NOT need to build it to get the quest required to simplify the game and getting better rewards while OTHERS do need to build it to access the same gameplay.

Are you claiming otherwise?
You can have 2 quests at one time. You still have 1 slot to perform alternative income. If you think the MA stops you from doing the quests, I had to carry a mandate quest to upgrade a building that I was not able to build until way past chapter V when I was still in Chapter II of research. :rolleyes: There are others who might have such issues as well. You see anyone complaining but you?

"You cannot decide whether if they are on your side or the other"
Glad to see you changed your mind on that, since earlier you were claiming them for your "side". Since you actually got it right, I will reword what I said previously, which has the same result, shockingly...
(in the new poll, reworded to get rid of bias you complained about)
Of all the people who voted, the MA is not liked. Of all the people who didn't vote, we know nothing about them, so can't make any conclusions. Well, unless you use a sample to extrapolate what the population is likely to answer. Pretty sure that is exactly show polls work? Like everywhere in the world? Politics, health etc. Your ONLY defense is that it is not a significant enough sample, which you will have to show some math for. Even then, NOT ONE person of all the votes liked it as is.
I doubt very much that you will provide the maths, the last person I asked to provide math proof never did (Katwijk) Yours is easier though, feel free.
I never changed my mind. It is only a mandate to research not build. I already gave you the answer earlier which I would have to repeat yet again since you are only being emotional not rational. Look at the number who voted in any of your claimed poll on MA. compare it with the number of players here in the forum. Insignificant.:cool:
 

Katwijk

Guest
I am confused as to why some of you insist on discussing AW's and Tournements, for example, on this thread.
Milk_Stool.jpg
The Tournaments, Ancient Wonders, and Magic Academy
are all part of an end of game triple, so that you will still have something to do
once you've finished your tech tree and have upgraded all of your buildings.

The Advanced Scouting Chests create a similar circumstance at the end of each chapter.
  • Tournaments generate Relics, Rune Shards, and Knowledge Points
  • An Ancient Wonder consumes Relics, Rune Shards, and Knowledge Points,
    and provides permanent buffs
  • The Magic Academy consumes Relics
    and provides temporary buffs (Spells)
 
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CrazyWizard

Scholar
You can have 2 quests at one time. You still have 1 slot to perform alternative income. If you think the MA stops you from doing the quests, I had to carry a mandate quest to upgrade a building that I was not able to build until way past chapter V when I was still in Chapter II of research. :rolleyes: There are others who might have such issues as well. You see anyone complaining but you?
to bad the second quest reward is based on where you are with your first quest.
at the time you are forced to build the magic academy your quests are:

Complete a Provence Complete a province 10000 coins, 500 supplies
More Coins
Gain 5000 Coins 500 supplies
Solve Encounters in the World
Solve 3 Encounters 7000 coins, 300 supplies
Better Buildings
Complete 1 Building Upgrade Level 4 or Higher 10000 coins, 1000 supplies
Having Planks
Gain 40 Planks 6000 coins, 600 supplies
Having Steel
Gain 40 Steel 6000 coins, 600 supplies
Using Strenth
: Marble Gain 100 Marble 20000 coins

you will never progress beyond this point without building the academy. As a player who played before it was introduced I am already more advanced in my main quest and therefore I do have different quest, quests that reward 1-2-3-7k supplies those quest keep running my factories on "neutral supply" balance. others have quests with 13k or better supplies, how on earth does not building it not break your game?

@Katwijk
Nice heared the triple nonsense comment for the 1407th time, cool that its a tripple, but a triple I am not interested in. I like some wonders, I do like tournaments and that MA is still as rubbish as ever, not building it gives me more space to develop my city and not building it does in no way affect my game in a bad way, actually in a posititve way.

That's not the case for new players tho. So now I have an advantage over those who did build it/new players

Edited: Zanyah - 2016-05-23 - inappropriate language
 
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oldskoolrx7

Guest
You can have 2 quests .... You see anyone complaining but you?


I never changed my mind. It is only a mandate to research not build. I already gave you the answer earlier which I would have to repeat yet again since you are only being emotional not rational. Look at the number who voted in any of your claimed poll on MA. compare it with the number of players here in the forum. Insignificant.:cool:
First part. Yes, I am complaining, you didn't look at all did you.

Second part. I understand that you don't understand. Thanks for making it obvious you are not able to understand simple logic, as explained before. I will now ignore you wherever possible, as arguing with someone who has been shown, very specifically, to be wrong, is like arguing with anti-vaccers (or "pro disease" as I like to call them).
You can't argue with someone who is not able to grasp they are wrong, even faced with irrefutable facts.