Answered Fighting with archers

[DeletedUser7704]

Sorry if this has been asked before but i cant find an answer or solution. So my squad size is 240 and enemy squad size is 166.
I use my archers up against mage and heavy melee unit. ( Thornrose mage and swomp monster)
With that i have the needles of tempest that gives the light range unit 107% damage boost.
With the automatic, and actual manual fighting i still loose.
So how am i supposed to win this?

 

[Lelanya]

Bring a couple of cerebus too. Take out mages first

 

[Deleted User - 106219]

Focus on taking out the enemy Mage units as quickly as possible. Once they are dead you should be able to keep your archers out of range of enemy Heavy Melee and take them out easily.

At least that's the theory. Without seeing the layout of the battlefield and the exact units used by you and your opponent it's impossble to give better advice.

 

[DeletedUser4149]

i'm not sure how you can lose. sounds like a fluke or there's another important factor missing. maybe there are 8 or 9 squads of 166 against your 5 squads of 240. maybe there was 1 unit of a different type than you mentioned that was good against archers? maybe it was a fluke of a battle because your archers couldn't get to their targets in the 1st round and the enemies reduced your numbers before you got to attack. you don't need cerberuses. i wouldn't give up. keep asking questions and learning more. combat has stayed the same for a long time. it will get easier for you.

 

[DeletedUser7704]

Hi yes sorry there were orcs with, still heavy melee unit. Just to add the orc and mage unit all 1 star. Archer 2 star. but as per image yes there are more slots but they not filled
orc 1 star total 166
thornrose mage 1 star total 220
swomp monster 2 star total 54

Total enemy 440

My archer 2 star total 1200

So i'm confused

 

[DeletedUser5754]

In most cases its best to keep the archers back the first turn, just move them to keep them out of range of the enemy. In second turn attack, but keep them out of range of the swamp monster(s).

 

[Deleted User - 106219]

Hi yes sorry there were orcs with, still heavy melee unit. Just to add the orc and mage unit all 1 star. Archer 2 star. but as per image yes there are more slots but they not filled
orc 1 star total 166
thornrose mage 1 star total 220
swomp monster 2 star total 54

Total enemy 440

My archer 2 star total 1200

So i'm confused

First of all, I can't see your image.

Second, just to make sure since I can't see your image, are you sure the Orcs are Heavy Melee? There are three neutral Orc units you can encounter in provinces:
Ancient Orcs are Light Melee
Orc Generals are Heavy Melee
Orc Deserters are Heavy Ranged

Third, you are ignoring the size of units. Archers have size 1, Swamp Monsters have size 6, Thornrose Mages have size 3, and Orc Generals have size 2. That means:
54 Swamp Monster *6 = 324 total size
220 Thornrose Mage *3 = 660 total size
166 Orc General *2 size = 332 total size
Total enemy size: 1316

So total enemy size is a bit greater than yours. You should still be able to win this - IF the enemy Orcs are Orc Generals and not one of the other Orc units. But again, it depends on terrain and how you move your units.

EDIT: Okay, managed to find a way to see your image. Yeah, those look like Orc Generals. The main issue is that there are 8 enemy squads, so a lot will depend on terrain.

It might be best to not attack on first turn and instead move around to stay out of range of enemy mages (if possible). Then focus on killing the Thornrose mages as quickly as possible.

 

[DeletedUser7704]

First of all, I can't see your image.

Second, just to make sure since I can't see your image, are you sure the Orcs are Heavy Melee? There are three neutral Orc units you can encounter in provinces:
Ancient Orcs are Light Melee
Orc Generals are Heavy Melee
Orc Deserters are Heavy Ranged

Third, you are ignoring the size of units. Archers have size 1, Swamp Monsters have size 6, Thornrose Mages have size 3, and Orc Generals have size 2. That means:
54 Swamp Monster *6 = 324 total size
220 Thornrose Mage *3 = 660 total size
166 Orc General *2 size = 332 total size
Total enemy size: 1316

So total enemy size is a bit greater than yours. You should still be able to win this - IF the enemy Orcs are Orc Generals and not one of the other Orc units. But again, it depends on terrain and how you move your units.

EDIT: Okay, managed to find a way to see your image. Yeah, those look like Orc Generals. The main issue is that there are 8 enemy squads, so a lot will depend on terrain.

It might be best to not attack on first turn and instead move around to stay out of range of enemy mages (if possible). Then focus on killing the Thornrose mages as quickly as possible.

Wish i could display the screen shots.
It is the Orc Warrior and it is heavy melee unit. the size of the units is very interesting but i don't see where i can see it.
Also i just made a fight simulation to see if the numbers show different, so on the battle field next to every character is the number of amount. and it still only shows the number i stated previously.

 

[Deleted User - 106219]

Notice the blue "i" icon in the upper right corner of each unit's image? Click on it and you'll see detailed info about each unit, including the size of that unit.

 

[DeletedUser5306]

Wish i could display the screen shots.
Also i just made a fight simulation to see if the numbers show different, so on the battle field next to every character is the number of amount. and it still only shows the number i stated previously.

When you say "fight simulation", did you mean you tried to simulate the fight here? : http://www.elvenarchitect.com/battle/simulator/
If not, this battle simulator might help you both with the fight (auto-fight mainly) and the unit sizes and numbers.

 

[DeletedUser7704]

Thank you @shadowblack i see now @Kaliartis i meant just battling on game, but tried that link and that is a helpful link to use in future. Thank you for that

 

[DeletedUser7704]

@Kaliartis i take it back. I did a simulator on the link you gave me, added my troops, enemy troops size everything as battle should be. it stated i won victory for me. so i went in game and added my troops in order as i did on simulator, automatic fight, as that's how it would play out on simulator and i lost.

 

[DeletedUser5976]

There is always an element of luck involved. As the damage and defense of your troops are not set but a number in a range.

 

[Deleted User - 106219]

@Kaliartis i take it back. I did a simulator on the link you gave me, added my troops, enemy troops size everything as battle should be. it stated i won victory for me. so i went in game and added my troops in order as i did on simulator, automatic fight, as that's how it would play out on simulator and i lost.

The most likely reason is that the terrain gives an advantage to the enemy. The battlefields in Elvenar are not random, so if you make a screenshot and post it we'll be able to give you better advice.

Note that attachments here have a limit of 1 MB, so you'll need to either resize the screenshot or upload it someplace and post the link.

 

[DeletedUser5306]

Yes the elvenarchitect simulator can be occasionally inaccurate. Know that if you want to use archers, to be certain to win, especially in the later rounds, you have to play with them manually and use the terrain as it has been said before (wait your first turn and put the outer archers in the outer corners to protect them initially, use the obstacles later on to be able to attack without being reachable from your enemy....). In this tournament (Dust) it is usually safer to use 5 cerebrus than 5 archers.

 

[DeletedUser5754]

The battle sim uses calculations to predict the outcome based on the stats of the troops involved. The AI used with autofight isn't really smart and will sent your archers forwards bringing them in range of the enemy. Now the enemy has first-strike and not only will you lose troops, but also will put spells on a few of your squads and this will turn the advantage you had into a disadvantage.
To check this, just put up what you did before, press fight (not auto) to go to the battlescreen and press the 'finish battle automaticly' to see whats happening. (Sword button, left on bottom bar).

 

[DeletedUser7704]

Thank you every one for the advise makes sense