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Fighting/catering difficulty change through chapters

Silly Bubbles

Illusionist
I really don’t want to upset people who don’t want to discuss things about formulae / tuning / designing your city at your will.

As long as it’s correct and considers all aspects of the game, there’s no reason why you should not post your findings. MinMax was great with numbers but not as much so in practical applications or strategies. I also have never seen her/his main city to see the results of the strategies as it was under a different user name.

The main problem is that the strategy that was created based on this formula didn’t consider the benefits of AW upgrades, expansions, research etc. All it needs is just to look at people’s tournament results to see that progressing (AW upgrades, expansions, research) doesn’t reduce their tournament score, it actually increases it. Any strategy that is not supported by actual results is wrong and can be damaging to the game if it gets accepted by large number of players. Unfortunately, this one widely spread amongst players and seems to be very hard to correct it as you can see.
 
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SkyRider99

Shaman
MinMax was great with numbers but not as much so in practical applications or strategies.
I found that too @Silly Bubbles. I tried MinMax a few times to discover anything I was missing in plotting my way through Elvenar. Although I did discover a few tips and explanations, all the intricate calculations still did not seem to really fit my modus operandi. It may be a bold statement to say that everyone plays the game differently, but it does seem that there are those who enjoy mathematical analysis, and those who just work it out as they go. :)
 

schadenfreude

Conjurer
The main problem is that the strategy that was created based on this formula didn’t consider the benefits of AW upgrades, expansions, research etc. All it needs is just to look at people’s tournament results to see that progressing (AW upgrades, expansions, research) doesn’t reduce their tournament score, it actually increases it. Any strategy that is not supported by actual results is wrong and can be damaging to the game if it gets accepted by large number of players. Unfortunately, this one widely spread amongst players and seems to be very hard to correct it as you can see.
It does, but at the time of the widespread adoption of parking cities, the latest chapter was 17 (I think) and the math for what you get out of military building increases in chap 16 in terms of upgrades etc. did not keep pace with the increase cost from mandatory techs should one completes the chapter. Now the latest chapter is 20 and they have balanced those challenges a bit better in the later chapters. Without going gaga on the math (I'll save that for someone else to drone out), it's like you will feel a dip in 16, but if you continue to progress, come out of it again. Therefore, the strategy to park is not completely unfounded or pure fear mongering, but also somewhat obsolete/addressed as the game continues to evolve.

Some people just park because they heard that's what you should do if you want to do well in tournament without understanding the why. However, I know a lot of people that also just parked around chap 16 for reasons that has nothing to do with tournament. They do not go crazy on tourney, but are just bored with the slog of guest races. Guest races and settlements bore them so they don't want to deal with it anymore or it takes the fun away. The way I see it, it beats them abandoning their cities completely and creating inactive, idle neighbors so I don't have problems with people that choose to park for whatever reason at whatever chapter as long as they're still playing. Recruiting sucks! We all need active players :)

(@Laurelin as requested)
 

JollyElf

Soothsayer
The last few posts kind of sums up all of it. I kind of agree with all of you.

The formula is real. Its effects are real (but reworked for the better). The phobia absolutely unnecessary (you don’t feel anything upto 15k (or 10 and less for some cities, depending on frequency of logins-crafting, money, time for manual battles and many other factors)

Parking is unnecessary but not due to tournament always. Chapter 17 was indeed designed with a vengeance. 60 ships, (say)20 collections per day (quick 4 to 8, 15 mins in the evening) is 1200 collections and resets each day!!! Not mandatory again, if you don’t mind a 6 month long chapter…

Tuning i still “feel” is possible. Not necessary if you just want to enjoy a nice game.

c20: I see cities with 5600 TSS0 (many in 3500s, I talk with few friends in game)
And 1500 TSS0 cities are possible at c20
(Lesser is possible but it’s very extremist :)
I do remember crazy wiz posting stats for 2 extreme cities)

Is the 2nd option better than the first. Let me just say, no. Or is it?
(Naaa, let’s close the topic :) @Laurelin )
 
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Laurelin

Sorcerer
... posted in error ... still editing ...
 

schadenfreude

Conjurer
Also, a clarification. When I said earlier that you’ll “feel a dip” in chap 16, I meant your ability to make back troops, not necessarily tourney score. It’s easily overcome if you feed your Brown Bear though, which most people doing lots of tourney will occasionally need to do anyway.

Remember, the progression says at the same point in the Spire and tournament, the ratio of troops is the same for everyone. Meaning no matter what you have built in your city or what chapter you are in, the 11th province in the tournament for example, uses the same ratio of your troops to enemy troops for everyone. Therefore, fighting does get easier as you progress since you get to buff your troops with various toys as you get more access to them. The challenge in late chapter is in your ability to make back enough troops to do the same amount of Spire or tournament since larger stacks taken to battle equates to more dead bodies that need replacing. The encounter itself remains the same since the ratio stays the same, but is just scaled proportionately up. Your ability to produce troops takes a hit in chap 16 bc the increases from military building upgrades didn’t quite keep up with the increases in troop size should you complete all mandatory techs. But I think chap 18 and 19’s upgrades re-balances things out a bit again. Unfortunately, to get there, you have to watch the paint dry first that is chap 17. More importantly, if you are doing a moderate or low amount of tourney, none of this will really affect you since you will always be able to make the troops back easily if you didn’t kill that many off each week.

(Drive by tagging of @Laurelin)
 

Laurelin

Sorcerer
So much to say on this - in theory - but suffice it [on this Forum] to say (if only to explain why I'd so enthusiastically engage in this particular thread on The Forum Topic Which Shall Not Be Named Lest DISAGREEMENT Ensue...) that my own Formula-based observations & results lately do NOT correlate with those I'm reading here, and if we had enough data points, even I might be able to consider why this could be... but never mind!

I wonder, though, if the CAL itself has been extended or altered, or even a new & similar fundamental per-City 'rating' of some kind introduced...? The new & inconsistently varying FA Bracelet & Coins & similar Event Quest demands - between Chapters or even Cities?! - spring to mind... hmm.

... But NOW I remember why I wasn't here for months, post-Mass Exodus of Days Past, and I've decided that I will once again not be here again from now on, either - certainly in terms of debating anything which has any potentially non-fluffy outcomes at all? Hey ho, it's back to Beta I go... :D

Thanks for the tags, though - much appreciated! - although for clarity I've now edited my request for them (above) to reflect my new (old) view!

It was fun while it lasted!

... /Quiet Mode - again... :)
 

JollyElf

Soothsayer
PS : Ha - that's funny! Thanks for the mid-afternoon laugh... ^_^
Read your beta posts. As always cleverly worded and well written. Always amused by your writing style.

Though in reality it’s really not that depressing. The last 10% of the encounters consume 90% of the troops. I really don’t mind not doing (say) last 5 provinces in those “paint drying” chapters. May enjoy the painting, as well :)

And cauldron is just an add-on. I do expect, quite a few “re-balancing” before it hits the live servers. And almost all of us unanimously want to use the goblets when we want to, so we might. If 100% of the user base wants something, good chance the service provider provides them that…
 

JollyElf

Soothsayer
Is there a point where you start facing 4 star opponents?
Lol.
One way the higher chapters are a bit more balanced (costs due to more aws favouring the newly introduced economy/non-military stuff) is due to having a few 10ish % higher stats on the promoted troops. (Those AWs are more necessary than luxury. The latter chapters are designed to keep progress slow, so the AWs give more breath-ability)
Really don’t want to lose that too.
 
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JollyElf

Soothsayer
Lol.
One way the higher chapters is a bit more balanced (costs due to more aws favouring the newly introduced economy/non-military stuff) is having a few 10ish % higher stats on your troops. (Those AWs are more necessary than luxury. The latter chapters are designed to keep progress slow, so the AWs give more breath-ability)
Really don’t want to lose that too.
Post in thread 'The Cauldron'
https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/the-cauldron.18155/post-110825

The cauldron is also designed to benefit the high chapter players more. To offset the costs due to various “unknown” factors. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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