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Fight system (sort of) explained

DeletedUser

Guest
Now first of all I am not 100% sure I am correct, this is just my theory on how the fight system works so if any of you have more to contribute I'll be happy to edit this and we can try get some kind of guide together for new members. It also assumes you use the auto fight system like I do.

OK so when you go to a Provence on the world map you are given an option to either negotiate or fight, personally I prefer to fight because the cost to negotiate can often be pretty high especially when you are new. I should note here that in all Providences there is usually one or two sections

section_zpsq4vkodcw.jpg


That the price to negotiate is pretty low so it would be more logical to negotiate than to waste troops so before attacking check that cost first.

That being said lets assume you choose to attack you need to know your troops capabilities versus your enemies. So you press "Fight" and you are brought to a page showing your troops and the enemies. If you hover over the pictures of your troops you will be given a description (for the sake of convenience I am going to use Sword Dancers for now but later on I'll try add so more info about other types of troops)

In the description you will see 4 icons that I have labeled "life", "damage", "moves", "Distance"

Sworddancer_zpsfpgnrhtp.jpg


Life: This is how much life each individual troop has.
Damage: This is how much damage they cause when they hit an enemy
Moves: This is how many moves they can make in a single turn
Distance: This is how far they can be away from an enemy before they can attack

So lets take that scenario in the image above if I hover over the enemy (Swamp monster)I see this

Enemy_zpskvysuoon.jpg


Now this tells me that each swamp monster has 108 life so between 24 of them there is a total of 2,592 life, so if we look at my sword dancer image again we see that sword dancers can deal between 9-11 damage per blow so if you were to base it purely on attack capabilities (and assume that each sword dancer gives an average of 10 damage) then to guarantee defeat 24 swamp monsters I would need to attack them with 260 sword dancers (damage dealt X troops = damage received X enemy life).

Now that's just one scenario as a way to explain the basics but obviously other troops abilities come into effect like say you add a few Archers into the mix

Archers_zpsrzlh2icp.jpg


They do less damage but can attack from a distance and I'm pretty sure the enemy attacks the closest possible target so if they are 3 moves away from the enemy then the enemy can't attack them so they can do more damage before the enemy gets close enough to kill them.

Also this is how I believe the troop placement works, there is a front line and a back line, which ever you place in the first two spots is your front line and the other three are your back line

troopsplacement_zpshk15xisa.jpg


so given the fact that some troops can take more damage, take treants for example

treant_zpsoiioneq3.jpg


They can take more damage so it is better to put them in your front line and let the enemy attack them while you use archers to hold back and attack from afar.

So that's what I have so far, I don't have every troop unlocked yet so if any one has anything to add I'd be more than happy to update this
 
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DeletedUser294

Guest
1. The sword dancer damage against the swamp monsters, 260 swords dancers might do 2600 damage normally, BUT. Swamp monsters have a thing called defense bonus from "small" melee attacks, so they will NOT do 2600 damage against them

In addition to that, swamp monsters do 30% more damage to your sword dancers , so might be a good idea to use other troops.
Archers/ants are a good combo, or pure archers if the field allow it..

2. The front/back lines (as you call em), squad 1,4 and 5 are at the back, 2 and 3 are front.

Said in another way...
When you are on the battlefield:
1. Squad is middle
2. Squad is one above 1. squad
3. Squad is one below 1. squad
4. Squad is one above 2. squad
5. Squad is one below 3. squad

And a hint from me... DON`T ever do auto fight, learn to fight instead, for two reasons.

1. AI. are always really bad at fighting on behave of humans.
2. Later(not that much later actually), when u need to fight bigger armies then your own , you will need to use the field in a tactical way, and WILL need to "fight your own battles" and by that time it will be to late/expensive to learn...
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Wow thanks Sand, this is all valuable info we need to get together in one place, I'll take your advice on board and rethink my fighting tactics now :cool:
 

DeletedUser277

Guest
This is a good start as a guide, thanks both.

In my, albeit limited, experience there is a certain amount of trial and error to the fighting, but a couple of things have helped me make fighting work well for me (as opposed to negotiation)

bluelarge.png
  1. Its an obvious point, but reading the description of the troops gives important clues about how they will fight. e.g. War Dogs will seek out your ranged units - obvious really as that is where they get their fight bonuses - whereas Orcs are real ugbugs and will attack whatever is closest.
  2. On the battlefield screen, if you hover over an enemy, you can see clearly (in red) the extent of their movement allowance. This helps enormously to plan the positioning of your own troops so that you almost always get the all-important first strike, terrain depending of course!
 

DeletedUser195

Guest
Excellent post. There is way more we need to learn, to fight the different AI.

This is what a lot of players need, something that they can view/read, to help understand the different ways to go into battle, with the right troops and the correct placement/selection. With the knowledge from a post like this, their choice to go to battle or negotiate for that relic/knowledge point, would be somewhat enjoyable in the end. Just keep in mind, you can't win them all, choose wisely when deciding whether to fight or negotiate.

https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/encounters-guide.488/

I copied the thread from the US1 forum, click the link above and it will give a better understanding of doing battle. Hope everyone can use it for a more enjoyable experience when doing battle. There are no pictures of the different AI in the spoiler, just their stats.
 
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DeletedUser219

Guest
A couple of other points.
Terrain differs. Some fields of battle are easy to move around in, others less so. There is an all-important button at the bottom left of the fight screen that allows you to run away :p (It says 'Surrender', but it means 'run away').
Don't be afraid to use it if you think you can't win :eek:.
You can also use it to have a preview of the battlefield to plan your troop mix. Fields with bottlenecks are better suited to your ranged units, for example;).
If you are constantly running out of troops before the enemy does, you are probably very near a new squad size upgrade or a new unit. Wait for it, and give them a real clobbering:cool:.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Something to reiterate is that some troops have attack and defense bonuses vs specific enemies. For instance, Swamp Monsters get a +20% attack bonus and a -70% defense bonus vs Light Melee Units (sword dancers for elves). What this means is that when Sword dancers (sorry humans, I'm an elf) attack a Swamp Monster they do only 30% of the damage they would do against any opponent without a light Melee bonus, and when Swamp monsters attack Sword Dancers they do 20% more damage than they would against other opponents.

So, moral of this is to NOT send light melee units against Swamp Monsters if you have a choice. Sometimes the choice is to negotiate until you have appropriate troops.
The other , more important moral, is that you should check the bonuses of your own and enemy troops before deciding what troops to use in any situation, or even whether to fight at all rather than negotiate. Do this by clicking the "I" icon/button associated with the troops.

Oh, and ALWAYS use the strategy of going in to a given fight with a default troop deployment, having a look at what you are up against and where they are, surrendering without a shot being fired, and going back with a deployment to suit the situation you have discovered.

There is also the consideration that the further away from your city you get (and also possibly the more scouting you do - does anyone know about this?) , the more and hairier enemy troops you face. So if you start taking more losses than you like:
1 Look for closer provinces to clear, and
2.Wait for military upgrades, as in bigger squads, new troop types, and troop promotion. Train troops like crazy while you are waiting (especially the ones that are going to be promoted soon. They will be more expensive to train when promoted).
 

Deleted User - 13667

Guest
Negotiation is not an option. At least till late game where your troops have grown significantly smaller in comparison with the AI units.

There are various strategies to use. It depends entirely on your own taste of AI blood.

It may not be a bad idea to launch Sword Dancers against Swamp Monsters so long as you do not take them head on. If you have some archers or golems :) It would be good to divert their attention from range to your sword dancers.

Or you could use sword dancers as bait to reduce damage inflicted on your treants.
 

DeletedUser66

Guest
Is there any tips on taking over Elixir and Magic provinces? These are the only two I am battling with and losing so many granite golems in the process so I think I need to change my strategy on this one.

Ideas?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Is there any tips on taking over Elixir and Magic provinces? These are the only two I am battling with and losing so many granite golems in the process so I think I need to change my strategy on this one.

Ideas?

Haven't done dust since military upgrades, will post here if I notice anything useful.
For elixir, you need a sword dancer or 2 for the Necromancers. You then have to keep them out of the way of the treants etc that have anti light melee bonuses. Make use of obstructions to keep the enemy heavy Melee units away from your golems while the golems whittle them away. The sword dancers can be used to lure the enemy into bad positions as they seem to try to preferentially target them.
I am having trouble against the cannoneer/knight/bandit combination in steel provinces. Any hints on how to cope with THEM?
 

DeletedUser1389

Guest
Haven't done dust since military upgrades, will post here if I notice anything useful.
For elixir, you need a sword dancer or 2 for the Necromancers. You then have to keep them out of the way of the treants etc that have anti light melee bonuses. Make use of obstructions to keep the enemy heavy Melee units away from your golems while the golems whittle them away. The sword dancers can be used to lure the enemy into bad positions as they seem to try to preferentially target them.
I am having trouble against the cannoneer/knight/bandit combination in steel provinces. Any hints on how to cope with THEM?

Yes. Put a sword dancer in position no. 1 (middle back) and leave it there for the canoneers to bomb as a diversion. Put 2 golems in position 2 and 3 (front ones) and 2 archers in 4 and 5. Back all of your troops backwards as far as you can on first round to stay out of range and wait for the enemy to come to you. Second round, move archers up each side and take out opposition bandits, knights if bandits can't be reached. For Golems first move, take them straight up the middle as far as you can and take shots at knights. Leave sword dancer where it is until cononeers are dead. I have noticed that canoneers seem to do minimal damage to swords if it's large range, it's weird. 3rd round, archers should be hitting knights and your two golems should be able to reach canoneers and will usually take them out this round, or at least leave them with minimal life points. Once canoneers are dead, move sword dancer in to join your other troops to battle the knights and to use as bait. Chip away at the Knights keeping your archers out of range and you should be fine, with minimal losses except your sword dancer bait.
 

DeletedUser277

Guest
Nice clear walkthrough guide :) I'll try that in my Elf guise.
 

DeletedUser1265

Guest
Thank you very much! I have developed a love-hate relationships with Ent11 and Golum11s! *runs away screaming*
 

DeletedUser1295

Guest
For all wanting to know more about battles/troops the following link on the beta-forum (although a bit outdated) provides a lot of information:
Encounters Guide

P.S. I do hope of course that many will keep on sharing their insights, hints, tips etc. in this thread!!!
 
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Tonton-des-bois

Illusionist
Giving the first hit is the key most of the time, so Zebastian gave a good hint :
First examine where each ennemy will be able to come at his turn and which place he will be able to hit.
Most of the time, it's best to let them approach and doing nothing the first round or move back some troops that are just on the border of short ranged unit range. That help disperse ennemies so you can then fight them one by one with mostly all your units and hitting first so ennemies first hit will be weaker.

With long ranged like canoneer or sorceress most of the time, humans can send their war dogs : they will make huge damages and are not very weak if some ennemies fight them back at their turn. I don't know what elves can do against those. War dogs are long/short ranged deadly killer and if the way is straight you can frantically send them at first turn : they will most of the time clear ranged unit in one hit and you will at worst loose 1 squad that anyway won't be needed after the first round (take the others back if they aren't needed anymore)

The second key is choosing the good types that will have advantages and/or won't give advantages like Kazobel said.

Finally, and while waiting for the fairies that will flight over obstacles, if you are facing long ranged unit and are not able to reach them in 2 turns, surrending seems a good idea :( (of course you can also cross your fingers, close your eyes and put your cat on the keyboard but this technique has unpredictable results mostly depending on how you feed the cat...)

I'm sorry if I explained that the KISS (Keep It Simply Stupid) way but they are so many combinations of troops and battlefields that it would take years to find a hint for each
 
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DeletedUser627

Guest
We can have max. 5 troops in battle, and enemy can have up to 8 troops.
Would it be possible to give us chance to upgrade number of troops up to max 8 to be more fair in battle?

And another thing: we can not change number of units in troops.
sometimes I would prefer to have less units in one troop, but not possible.
What about that?
 

Tonton-des-bois

Illusionist
We can have max. 5 troops in battle, and enemy can have up to 8 troops.
Would it be possible to give us chance to upgrade number of troops up to max 8 to be more fair in battle?
I don't agree about the unfairness of that : if there is more than 5 ennemy troops, they are significantly weak in size compared to when there is less squads...

And another thing: we can not change number of units in troops.
sometimes I would prefer to have less units in one troop, but not possible.
What about that?
That a really nice idea that need to be proposed in the right forum...;)
 

Deleted User - 13667

Guest
Unfortunately, the enemy 8 squads will also outnumber your squads as the u explore further. Allowing more friendly units are welcomed
 

DeletedUser627

Guest
I don't agree about the unfairness of that : if there is more than 5 ennemy troops, they are significantly weak in size compared to when there is less squads...
That's not entirely true. Sometimes they are maybe weaker, but they still have 8 hits on you, and you max 5. And that's not insignificant .
and moreover, when they have less troops, their units are pretty large . For example, I have max. troops of 200 units - enemy has more than 700 (!!!) if less than 3 troops.
 
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