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Fellowship Summonings Inventory

In the Fellowship Summonings, you can put Gold, Supplies... Instants... Spells... even buildings like event cultures.

If someone in the Fellowship wants to remove an item from the Fellowship Summonings, they have to replace the item/s with something else. Like a bid system.
So, for instance, if they wish to remove some of the Gold that's in the Fellowship Summonings, they have to replace it with, say, some Supplies, or a handful of Spells, or maybe an Instant or two.
Or if there's an Event Cult in there... they can bid on it with some Gold etc.

The bid for the items in the Fellowship Summonings, would be literally a "bid".
They place their bid on the item that's in the Fellowship Summonings, and a Mage, or the Archmage, has to either confirm or deny the trade.

This would allow Mages and Archmages to keep items secure, and make sure the Fellowship Summonings doesn't get raided by players who might not be fully trustworthy.
Not saying everyone is untrustworthy, but there may be the ocassional player in a Fellowship that would nick all the Instants and Event Cultures, and leave the Fellowship Summonings filled to the brim with nothing but Gold or Supplies.

The Arch/Mage system on bids, not only would give the Mages something to do... but would also stop the Fellowship Summonings from just ending up packed with nothing but a load of Gold and Supplies.
[10:46 AM]
It would also be handy in the Gold and Supplies situation because there are 3 players in my Fellowship who are constantly maxing out on Gold and Supplies, and they have to use the Wholesaler all the time to get the numbers down again.

And there are smaller players who sometimes struggle for Gold or Supplies.

If they could place the Gold/Supplies into the Fellowship Summonings or even spend that surplus Gold/Supplies and get themselves an Instant or some Spells or whatever, then a smaller player could then bid on those items with say, some Supplies or maybe a couple Spells... an Archmage or Mage can then say yes to that bid, and the smaller player then gets that handful of Gold.

Fellowship Summonings: Swapping Gold, Supplies, Cultures, Instants, Relics, even Combining Catalysts etc between Fellowship Members.
 

anonglitch

Co-Community Manager
Elvenar Team
Thanks, @Saapphira. It is not a bad idea at all, although it would bring a lot of changes. We will pass it :)
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Far too much work for the mages, I would think. Looking over hundred or thousands of bids and then I have to decide who gets what? And then having people mad at me for chosing the other bid? No thanks.

But why not turn it around and have people offer their own goods? Then everybody is responsible for what they put up for trade themselves. They can accept any bid they like.

An alternative would be to sell and buy items for diamonds.

Either way the main problem would be to prevent push accounts. This market would make the common practice of push accounts a lot worse, so far all you can do is push goods and KP... Once you can push 5-day booster buildings it will change the whole game.
So unless you can prevent that from happening I see far more problems than benefits, but the idea is of course both great and old :D
 
The mages would only be looking after trades for their own fellowship. Each fellowship would have their own separate fellowship trader to trade only amongst that fellowship. there would be no trading with players outside your own fellowship. You would be able to trade all items in the regular trader plus any item in your inventory. This would be in addition to the regular trader
 
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Deleted User - 341074

Guest
The mages would only be looking after trades for their own fellowship.
Right, but what @Gargon667 is saying is that players who run multiple accounts can give all of their good buildings to their "main" account (in the same Fellowship) making it super powerful and ruin things like the tournament for competitive players.
 

Silmaril

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
Please bear though in mind it is against the Game Rules to have more than one account even on the same internet connection within the same Fellowship. Somehow that appears to have been overlooked in this thread.

§7 Pushing
  • Operating a “push-account” is forbidden. This is defined as unbalanced routine resource (resources, Knowledge Points etc.) transfers from one account to the next even if involved accounts do not belong to the same player.
  • It is forbidden to create trades in any form (goods, Knowledge Points etc.) that involve multiple worlds.
  • Please note that it is strictly forbidden to use the invite feature to invite yourself or players that share an internet connection with you.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
The mages would only be looking after trades for their own fellowship. Each fellowship would have their own separate fellowship trader to trade only amongst that fellowship. there would be no trading with players outside your own fellowship. You would be able to trade all items in the regular trader plus any item in your inventory. This would be in addition to the regular trader

I understand you. If such a trader was there, I alone would be putting up a hundred trades immedeatly, more over time you see my inventory alone is full of pages over pages of junk that I would be more than happy to get rid of, gold and supplies I am throwing at the wholesaler every day...
There are 25 of us in our FS, so 2500 trades at least, we are 5 mages and an AM. to look over thousands of trades in our FS... Not interested.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Please bear though in mind it is against the Game Rules to have more than one account even on the same internet connection within the same Fellowship. Somehow that appears to have been overlooked in this thread.

§7 Pushing
  • Operating a “push-account” is forbidden. This is defined as unbalanced routine resource (resources, Knowledge Points etc.) transfers from one account to the next even if involved accounts do not belong to the same player.
  • It is forbidden to create trades in any form (goods, Knowledge Points etc.) that involve multiple worlds.
  • Please note that it is strictly forbidden to use the invite feature to invite yourself or players that share an internet connection with you.

Of course it is against the rules, but we all know it happens all the time anyway, rules or not. So far there is rather little harm done, because pushing is limited to rather few resources. A trader would open up whole worlds of opportunities for the same people that already are breaking the rules.
 

Silmaril

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
We would hope that if you suspected any player of operating a push account that you would be letting us know in Support, to be able to investigate the account/s again as per the Game Rule 9.

§9 Report breach of rules
  • If you believe someone is breaking the rules, you can contact the Support team and report it. Knowingly benefiting from another player breaking the rules is prohibited. If you think you have benefited from a breach of rules, please report this.
  • It is forbidden to incite other players to commit a rule violation. The attempt is punishable and need to be reported.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
We would hope that if you suspected any player of operating a push account that you would be letting us know in Support, to be able to investigate the account/s again as per the Game Rule 9.

If I "Suspect" anyone I will certainly not report it, that is entirely pointless. If Inno cared, they can look up Monkey1, Monkey2, Monkey3,... Monkey17 themselves. it´s not actually hard. (and no I didn´t check if there actually is an account like that)

If I can prove a player breaks the rule with screenshots of 17 different monkey accounts all donating to Monkey1s AWs with none of Monkey1s KP in any of the other 17 monkeys, I will occasionally (I think I did it twice) take the time to compile the information and send it in. However we also all know that punishment will not follow after the first offense, they get off with a slap on the wrist the first couple of times. So I have the option to:
1. spend a lot of time on a very not fun task to get a most likely close to zero result or
2. just let some pushers keep pushing their KP (which doesn´t bother me much)

If Inno really cared: Take in a couple of Interns (or even volunteer players) and send them cheater hunting, it´s not hard to explain what to look for. Have a pro look over the results, you can easily clean up the top 100 tourney players, top 100 ranking players, top 20 FS on each server.
Cleaning up the entire game would be a much bigger project of course, but who cares if a player that plays no big tourneys, scores no big ranks and plays in no big FS cheats in a couple thousand KP?
 

Silmaril

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
That is far from the case @Gargon667 and many players have been banned from the game, when they are unable to adhere to the Game Rules.
These bans can be applied for short periods of 1-7 days or indefinitely if a player refuses to adhere to the rules.
Please bear in mind that by NOT reporting to us, you are also in breach of our rules and all we require in Support is the name of the account/s and the World. We make it this simple to encourage our players to help us keep Elvenar a fair game for us all.
Ultimately we do of course prefer to educate the players than impose account limits, many do not realise the damage they bring to the game by breaking the rules.
 

Far Reach

Conjurer
If Inno really cared: Take in a couple of Interns (or even volunteer players) and send them cheater hunting, it´s not hard to explain what to look for. Have a pro look over the results, you can easily clean up the top 100 tourney players, top 100 ranking players, top 20 FS on each server.
Cleaning up the entire game would be a much bigger project of course

One way of achieving the outcome in an automated way would be for the game to keep track of (for example) the value of the goods gained in trades and the value of the goods spent in trades for each player. If the proportional gain was excessive then the player would be flagged up for a closer look. (Obviously the same could be done for AWs too, counting the gifts to a players AWs over and above the reward chests, and comparing that with the donations they make.)

A more hands-off approach would be to introduce an automated penalty when some threshold has been reached:

(1) Player is no longer able to see trades above 2 star, or offer trades below 2 star, if they've been profiting excessively.
(2) Player is no longer able to receive donations to his AWs if receiving a disproportionate amount of AW kps from gifts.

Over time as the player traded/invested fairly (or unfavourably) the ratio would re-adjust until it fell below the threshold (when the penalty would be automatically removed).
 

Silmaril

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
Unfortunately that could penalise many players who get ahead using Diamonds to purchase Knowledge Points, Goods, Units etc: to get ahead in the game quickly. It could also lead to players no longer wishing to participate in the Knowledge Points swap threads, for fear of it looking unbalanced and also then being penalised.
By having the team investigate, this then takes into consideration more factors than a programme could.
After all the aim is to just have players wanting to adhere to the rules as they are there to give fair gameplay for us all.
 

Far Reach

Conjurer
Many thanks for the quick response.

Unfortunately that could penalise many players who get ahead using Diamonds to purchase Knowledge Points, Goods, Units etc: to get ahead in the game quickly. It could also lead to players no longer wishing to participate in the Knowledge Points swap threads, for fear of it looking unbalanced and also then being penalised.

Just to clarify - my suggestion above will not penalise any of the cases you describe. Specifically the penalty doesn't depend upon how many KPs a player invests, nor how many resources they trade - it is simply a response to a sustained gross deficit (as a proportion of the total) between what they give to other players and what they receive from them. (This is what I understand pushing to be.) Also all the penalty really does is to remove the ability to cheat, the affected player isn't really worse off than those who have acted fairly throughout.]

By having the team investigate, this then takes into consideration more factors than a programme could.
After all the aim is to just have players wanting to adhere to the rules as they are there to give fair gameplay for us all.

I absolutely agree. The team is of course also much better placed to determine whether cheating is happening than the player-base is. @Gargon667 suggested that more manual effort could be used to detect issues. I thought that you might be overloaded, and that an automated approach would help reduce the burden (leaving the team to focus on difficult or disputed cases). Either approach is valid though.
 

Silmaril

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
We do have our moments as we are actively recruiting still for Support as we are a little thin on the ground. But we do go through every last one with a fine tooth comb.
We know how damaging some of these selfish players can be to the gamE. After all we are all here as we love Elvenar and choose to spend our time and efforts not only playing but helping our fellow players too :) (she said heading off to get cracking on the Spire)
 

Gargon667

Mentor
That is far from the case @Gargon667 and many players have been banned from the game, when they are unable to adhere to the Game Rules.
These bans can be applied for short periods of 1-7 days or indefinitely if a player refuses to adhere to the rules.
Please bear in mind that by NOT reporting to us, you are also in breach of our rules and all we require in Support is the name of the account/s and the World. We make it this simple to encourage our players to help us keep Elvenar a fair game for us all.
Ultimately we do of course prefer to educate the players than impose account limits, many do not realise the damage they bring to the game by breaking the rules.

Guess I am lucky that I don´t visit other people´s AWs much anymore since the tourney changes... I wouldn´t want to break rules by not reporting anyone.
If all you want is name and world however I will send tickets to support because that much time I sure can spare, in case I see someone anyway.
 

Deleted User - 341074

Guest
we also all know that punishment will not follow after the first offense, they get off with a slap on the wrist the first couple of times.
That is far from the case @Gargon667
One way of achieving the outcome in an automated way
There was a player who made a script to track all KP donations in the top 100 of each server.
This script flagged any account for further investigation that had significantly more KP gained vs donated.
He tracked them for a few weeks, took evidence screenshots, submitted reports, and repeated for 3 more sets of weeks. ( I believe it was 2 months in total)

He offered the script to Inno for free, but they didn't care, and none of the offenders were noticeably affected by anything Inno did to them as evidenced by the fact they all continued to push KP and were still doing so in the weeks and months following the reports.
At least 3 rounds of reporting were done over 2 months on the worst offenders (4,000+ KP per week from dummy accounts)

So we know for a fact that the process can be 99% automated but INNO has chosen not to.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
I understand your sentiment @Gargon667 but this is poorly worded. It looks like you are saying all of these are cheating.
lol I guess one could read it that way. In which case I am a triple cheater of course ;) But it should be obvious enough I think. The point is not to argue who is a cheater or who is not, but to start investigating at the most important target groups, if resources are too limited to check everybody all the time

I absolutely agree. The team is of course also much better placed to determine whether cheating is happening than the player-base is. @Gargon667 suggested that more manual effort could be used to detect issues. I thought that you might be overloaded, and that an automated approach would help reduce the burden (leaving the team to focus on difficult or disputed cases). Either approach is valid though.

.Also the auomated process doesn´t have to be the only process, it can simply used for doing the simple initial screening, when an alert pops u, a human can easily check if any actual cheating has occurred or not.

Also I see no problem with diamond spenders, since it can easily be traced where the KP come from, even automatically, if diamonds are used to buy KP, just add those KP to the balance.

KP chains are not a problem at all. Every player using chains, donates and receives exactly the same amount of KP. No net benefit (the benefit comes from reward chests), so it won´t show in a balance.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
There was a player who made a script to track all KP donations in the top 100 of each server.
This script flagged any account for further investigation that had significantly more KP gained vs donated.
He tracked them for a few weeks, took evidence screenshots, submitted reports, and repeated for 3 more sets of weeks. ( I believe it was 2 months in total)

He offered the script to Inno for free, but they didn't care, and none of the offenders were noticeably affected by anything Inno did to them as evidenced by the fact they all continued to push KP and were still doing so in the weeks and months following the reports.
At least 3 rounds of reporting were done over 2 months on the worst offenders (4,000+ KP per week from dummy accounts)

So we know for a fact that the process can be 99% automated but INNO has chosen not to.

I would guess the guy running the script got a warning though...
 
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