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[Feedback] Specific feedback on declining quests

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Amy Steele, Sep 7, 2015.

  1. sandgreen

    sandgreen Adventurer

    Aug 14, 2015
    Even if u completed "100 pop" the "right" way , it still gives more coin then other residence quest... = still not bad...
  2. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Jul 28, 2015

    Rolling on the floor, laughing! :p
    NecroDee and sandgreen like this.
  3. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Jul 28, 2015
    Here's an updated spreadsheet of the Repeatable Quests. I've made some corrections.

  4. Amy Steele

    Amy Steele
    Ex-Team Member

    Apr 23, 2015
    Thank you all very much for your feedback folks! I have passed it on :) please do keep it coming - even if I don't respond in this thread I am still keeping up to speed with all your great feedback here, and will continue to pass it on :)
    Recksters likes this.
  5. Shatterhand

    Shatterhand Adventurer

    Sep 24, 2015
    This is a planned function ? Feels as if i'm abusing a bug. But if these rotating quests are planned then is there any chance of making it easier to reach the one that i aim to finish next. Takes a lot of clicking to cycle through to the ones that are easiest to finish for my town.
  6. TheRodent

    TheRodent Conjurer

    Aug 25, 2015
    Didn't see this thread till now...

    I use certain declinable quests to get the things I normally can't.

    My missions have changed as I've grown, but I still have some that are invaluable. At the moment, I have 4 dust factories, 4 scrolls, and 6 planks (I did have 8 but I had to delete 2 of them, I'll explain in a moment why).

    It's costing me 60-70k gold, plus I don't know how much supplies, every time I want to go on 3 hour production with my factories... gold from houses just doesn't cut it, especially when I want to upgrade stuff as well, and my workshops don't make anywhere near what is needed for production and upgrades.

    So, declinable missions, for instance 60k gold for collecting 1000 goods, is perfect for a gold boost combined with residence gold, so I can go on another 3 hour production... I also have one mission which pays some supplies as a reward, which covers some, not all, of the supplies needed for productions and upgrades, especially when I combine those supplies with what my workshops have made (like I do with the gold from houses and gold from missions).

    Without declinable missions, I simply wouldn't have the gold and supplies needed for the basic things like production and upgrades. I would have to do a 3 hour production, then wait 4 or 5 hours, maybe more, before I can do another.
    Also, I simply would not be able to afford a 9 hour production while I was asleep overnight.
    And without declinable missions, upgrades would simply not happen.

    This was why I deleted 2 of my planks factories. 8 of them down to 6 saves me a couple thou gold and supplies. I deleted them mainly through fear of declinable quests coming to an end.

    Declinable missions are a valuable asset, and without them the game would just become a case of making a small handful of stuff, then wait a whole day for gold and supplies to build up just to make another tiny handful of stuff.

    The basic thing of this game is to make stuff, and then trade, build or upgrade with it. Without declinable missions, I wouldn't be able to do this.
  7. NecroDee

    NecroDee Bard

    Sep 4, 2015
    Before I continue with my response, I would like to point out that the repeatable quests definitely help to progress through this game, though a few of them are just way too open to abuse.
    That said ... (to me) you stating that this game would be unplayable without them just sounds like an inefficiency issue on your part.
    I don't understand how you can possibly not get enough gold from your residences for your needs. The only thing that would explain it is if you're dumping all of your gold into KPs.

    For example, I currently have 15 plank MFs, 6 silk MFs and 6 dust MFs, and I still ALWAYS have a surplus of gold.
    Per day, every day, all of my MFs do 5 x 3 hour productions and 1 x 9 hour productions.

    Lets throw some maths your way:

    My daily plank MFs:
    15 MFs doing 5 rotations of 3 hours and 1 rotation of 9 hours
    Total 3 hour rotations: 75
    At level 15, each 3 hour production eats up 1100 gold and 110 supplies per rotation.
    Total 9 hour rotations: 15
    At level 15, each 9 hour production eats up 2020 gold and 202 supplies per rotation.
    So total daily plank expenses are: 112,800 gold and 11,280 supplies.

    My daily silk MFs:
    6 MFs doing 5 rotations of 3 hours and 1 rotation of 9 hours
    Total 3 hour rotations: 30
    At level 15, each 3 hour production eats up 8,720 gold and 872 supplies per rotation.
    Total 9 hour rotations: 6
    At level 15, each 9 hour production eats up 15,900 gold and 1,590 supplies per rotation.
    So total daily silk expenses are: 357,000 gold and 35,700 supplies.

    My daily dust MFs:
    First off, I haven't maxed out my dust MFs yet, so lets just say that on average, they are Level 9
    6 MFs doing 5 rotations of 3 hours and 1 rotation of 9 hours
    At level 9, each 3 hour production eats up 36,800 gold and 3,680 supplies per rotation.
    Total 3 hour rotations: 30
    At level 9, each 9 hour production eats up 67,200 gold and 6,720 supplies per rotation.
    Total 9 hour rotations: 6
    So total daily dust expenses are: 1,507,200 gold and 150,720 supplies.

    Now if you add all of that up, every 24 hours I spend 1,977,000 gold and 197,700 supplies on my goods.

    While this could seem like a lot, the residences I have built, I only built enough of for the population to support my town and I only have 8 workshops. To add to this, not all of my residences are connected to roads, meaning I get the population boost from them, but no gold income whatsoever.

    So all this says to me is that you need to make your town more efficient, and in your case, just seems like to you need more of and higher level residences and most likely less tier 3 MFs. Looking at your town, you have 21 residences. 12 are level 11 (assuming this is your current max until you research further) and 9 are level 10.
    In my experience, 21 residences are definitely not enough to support 14!! MFs, especially 4 of them being dust MFs.

    TL : DR
    You're over-reaching, too many MFs and not enough residences.

    Good luck,
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015
    Lisica, Vergs and Da Twista like this.
  8. ophion

    ophion Novice

    Jun 6, 2015
    I have a quest to build three superior steel manufactories which I cannot decline.
    I have two at level 15 which are sufficient for my needs and have no need to build another. If the quest was just to build three steel manufactories then I could complete the quest as I could build a level 1 manufactory and then delete it...but this quest is asking for three SUPERIOR steel manufactories and there lies the problem.

    I don't feel that I should have to use all my hard earned resources to build something that will take ages to build ...to then just be deleted in order to move forward on a quest.
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2015
    Josiah likes this.
  9. Lisica

    Lisica Guest

    Unfortunately there are other similar quests, such as the tier 3 non boosted goods which many people don't want due to space or cost of building plus having to upgrade those buildings a few quests later.
  10. Amy Steele

    Amy Steele
    Ex-Team Member

    Apr 23, 2015
    Thanks for all your feedback on quests so far folks! Many of these quests have been changed in version 0.26, based on your feedback. Please do continue to give us your feedback on these amended quests :)
  11. metalax

    metalax Guest

    Posted in the general feedback for 0.26 already, but posting the quest feedback parts here as well.

    - At least at my current level of development the rebalanced repeatable quests seem fine now, not too much of a reward that not doing them seriously gimps your progress while being sufficient that you are not just wasting time by doing them.

    - There are still unskipable quests that block progress.

    The example I ran into was the quest immediately prior to the research sorceresses quest, that required the upgrading of a magic dust manufactory. As my boosted tier 3 good is not dust and so by this stage of the game not having any non-boosted manufactories, this meant needing to find a fairly large clear space, acquire a surplus of some 230 or so workers and then tying up a builder for most of the day to build and then upgrade a dust manufactory to be immediately sold as not being worth the workers, just to pass an unskipable quest and a piddling reward.
  12. s5carrot

    s5carrot Sorcerer

    Oct 11, 2015
    I skipped the quests that demanded that I gain a certain relic which I just completed. Sorry that I cant recall the exact quest
    It is very difficult to spend time and allocate scouts just to explore that plot of the required relic and discovered it is full of cannoneers, making it very hard to clear.
  13. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Jul 28, 2015
    Well, as I posted in the 'Report a bug' section, since that update, you can get stuck on only mandatory quests and have no RQs (repeatable quests).

    Without RQs, I cannot produce enough supplies. I have 9 workshops and I would need 40 in order to produce enough supplies without accumulating any. I need 290k of supplies per day and 9 workshops can only produce 65k. And it's not because I have insane numbers in manus. I only have 6 scrolls (2nd tier) and 6 elixir (3rd tier). The 1st tier are not an issue, they don't cost much in supplies each day.

    So, if RQs were nerfed and we would be always stuck on a quest that we cannot decline, it would really affect how we play.

    Even if I lose my job and have no life, without RQs, I would only be able to produce half of the supplies I need. Details in my post in my link at the beginning of this reply.

    This shows that the supplies system is unbalanced.

    This shows that making us stuck on quests would achieve the same result as not having RQs.

    I cannot play without RQs. Now, I barely produce enough supplies for 1st tier, 2nd tier and upgrades. Not enough for 3rd tier manus and not enough for techs. I will have to stop upgrades and manus for one day to accumulate enough supplies for Dwarven Style Workshops (70k supplies). This is ludicrous.

    You need to fix this before making RQs not declineable. You need to make the game self sufficient without RQs first. And you need to always allow a RQ line even if you show 2 mandatory quests.
  14. TheRodent

    TheRodent Conjurer

    Aug 25, 2015
    Funnily enough, I've just hit a snag as well.

    I just upgraded my planks, and had so little gold left I couldn't put my factories on a 3 hour production.
    If it wasn't for a declinable quest, I would have been stuck for hours waiting for residences to make gold, as it costs me well over 250k to go on productions now.
  15. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Jul 28, 2015
    Yep, that's why I have close to 70 residences. It's nuts. In FoE, houses don't take so much room in a city.
  16. Advaita

    Advaita Seeker

    Jun 18, 2015
    You need 290K supplies per day because you have too many manufactories and not enough workshops. Simple. Your city is built on you reliance on RQ's. Get over it, RQ's were never meant to be your main source of income. Adapt. Loose some manufactories and build some workshops.
    I don't believe it was ever the intention to have manufactories producing 24/7, indeed doing so creates a surplus. How many goods you make are dependendent upon the supplies you can produce. Note 'produce', not gain from RQ rewards. You're smart, do the maths, work within your means.

    I like that the game keeps changing, and we have to adapt with it. It requires mental agility and adaptation. Who want's it too easy? Not me. While having unlimited supplies of everything you ever need without having to put any effort in other than a few hundred clicks per hour can get you ahead, surely a challenge is more rewarding (personally I relish the opportunity to punch buttons on my calculator and pretend I'm the chancellor of the exchequer for an hour).

    There is still balance to be redressed, coin production is disproportinate to the amount of population needed, for example, but I do feel the devs are moving in the right direction.
  17. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Jul 28, 2015
    Get over it? Learn to read before commenting.

    How the heck is six 3rd tier and six 2nd tier manufactories too much!?!?!?! Even if I removed them all I wouldn't have enough for upgrades and techs.

  18. Advaita

    Advaita Seeker

    Jun 18, 2015
    Suggesting I am unable to read is rather draconian. Nevertheless, a couple of third tier manufactories might make space for some workshops, which might go some way to helping you out of the terrible mess you are in.
  19. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Jul 28, 2015
    Unable or lazy, your pick. I wrote all the mathematical details in my original post. I find it hilarious lower ranked players trying to tell me how to play.
  20. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Jul 28, 2015
    Here's a quote from my original post, which I updated cuz I don't need 290k per day, I need 330k of supplies per day.

    With 9 workshops, with my work, I can only schedule 2 x 9-hour and 1 x 3-hour productions per day. I can only produce 65k of supplies, while I need 330k each day.

    WHAT? 330k? Are you mad? Nope, I need:

    Total of supplies needed just for manufactories: 189k
    6 x 10k supplies for 9-hour production of 3rd tier manus: 60k x 2 = 120k
    6 x 5k supplies for 3-hour production of 3rd tier manus: 30k x 1 = 30k
    6 x 2k supplies for 9-hour production of 2nd tier manus: 12k x 2 = 24k
    6 x 1k supplies for 3-hour production of 2nd tier manus: 6k x 1 = 6k
    12 x 300 supplies for 9-hour 1st tier manus: 3.6k x 2 = 7.2k
    12 x 150 supplies for 3-hour production of 1st tie rmanus: 1.8k x 1 = 1.8k

    Total for troops: 66k
    24 training slots per day = 2,750 supplies each slot = 66k of supplies

    Total for daily upgrades: 30-50k

    Supplies needed per day: 305k of supplies.

    And I need to accumulate supplies for techs. For example, Dwarven Workshops = 70k of supplies. So, I figure I need to accumulate another 25k per day for techs.

    In total, I need to produce at least 330k of supplies each day.

    With 9 workshops, I can only produce 65k. Even if I had no life and no work and I was using the 1-hour production often, I would fall short.

    9 x 828 supplies x 15 hours = 111k + 9 x 2750 supplies (gotta sleep sometimes) 25k = 136k, not even half than what I need, but I wouldn't be able to play cuz I wouldn't have enough money to pay for my Internet access, cuz I would be out of work. ;-)

    Without RQs, I would need 46 workshops to have 290k of supplies per day with my schedule of play.

    46? Yes. Simple rule of 3: 9 workshops = 65k, how many workshops for 330k? 45.7 workshops.

    "You have too many manufactories!"

    Really? Six 3rd tier and six 2nd tier is too many? Even if I remove all my manufactories, I don't produce enough for troops, upgrades or techs.

    Even if I double my workshops to 18, I would produce only 1/3 of what I need each day. Even if I triple my workshops, that would give me barely a bit over half what I need.

    Sure, not everyone is as far as I am in the game, but I'm sure I would have had this problem a long time ago, if we didn't have repeatable quests.