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[Feedback] Specific feedback on declining quests

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Amy Steele, Sep 7, 2015.

  1. Amy Steele

    Amy Steele
    Ex-Team Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Dear Elves and Humans,

    As announced here, we are seeking your feedback on which specific quests you decline and why. Please let us know why and when (at which segment) you skip a quest, so that we can use all your feedback for a general improvement to the quest system. Including the name of the quest, or the task, and which colour or number segment you had reached in the tech tree at the time would be most helpful, thank you :)

    For more general feedback on quests, feel free to continue to use the existing thread. All feedback from both threads will be forwarded :)
     
  2. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    To summarize, two things:

    1- I already suggested a solution: a cooldown period. Instead of blocking the Decline button, block the OK button on a quest that you completed less than 3 hours ago. Like this, we can decline any quest we want and the discussion will be over. Worst that can happen is that we have to wait up to 3 hours before we can complete a quest again. At least we won't get stuck on a quest for days.

    2- Fix the trading system, to allow us to trade much further away.

    Discussion over, everybody happy.
     
    sandgreen likes this.
  3. Amy Steele

    Amy Steele
    Ex-Team Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Dear Recksters, thank you for your feedback! Are there any specific quests you decline because, for instance, you cannot complete them at the stage you are at? If so, which specific one are causing you problems and why?
     
  4. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    What I like to do is go through my quests and do the activities in the same order, and decline those that are not happening at the moment and sometimes wait 30-45 minutes on a quest that I know will complete soon. Then continue going through my quest to do something in the game that will make me accomplish a quest.

    It's a good way to guide your playing, to stimulate you do to some activities. To keep me in the game more often. Sometimes I can be busy for 3 hours in the game and be ready to collect my 3-hour timed collection without logging off. If you focus on the Decline button instead of the OK button, we will lose that, I would play for a bit, collect, schedule upgrades, then come back 3 hours later. But not if you focus on the OK button.

    As for quests, yes, there are many reasons why we can decline questions. For example, if I know I can fight and solve a lot of encounters, when I get those provinces-related quests, I do them. But that happens maybe once every 3-4 days, to rebuild the troops. So, for a few days I decline them.

    When I collect goods, I do and collect them in the order they appear, but decline them other parts of the day.

    Some quests are for players that come only once per day, some are for players that play often. So, either type of players can get stuck on the opposite type of quests. A player that comes once per day will not come back one hour later to complete the Produce Bread 8 times, and will lose the 1 day production of supplies because of it. Same for produce 3 one-day goods, for active players, you lose a lot of goods. Etc... etc...

    Let's not forget that Repeatables Quests make players stay in the game much more, makes them available more often, makes the game more fun for other members of the fellowship because there is more activity. You will heavily reduce that if you focus on the Decline button.
     
  5. Advaita

    Advaita Seeker

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2015
    When a player hits second colour in tech tree (green) the following 4 separate quests appear (Elves):

    1) Gain 200 Crystals
    2) Produce 1 Crystal ball
    3) Gain 100 Crystals, 100 Scrolls & 100 Silk
    4) Gain 500 Crystals

    At this stage the player is still 10 segments away from researching Crystal (or Silk/Scrolls depending on boost) and 16 segments away from unlocking 2nd tier goods in the wholesaler so these quests cannot be completed at this stage in the game. Granted it is possible to trade 1st tier goods for 2nd tier goods to complete 1) 3) and 4) but at this stage the player will not have enough 1st tier goods to trade, and even if they did the required outlay exceeds the quest rewards.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
  6. Kazobel

    Kazobel Guest

    I'm currently on Purple in the tech tree (City expansion 8) so the quest I currently decline are

    1. "Complete 3 building upgrades to level 6 or higher" - Reason: Most of my buildings are above level 8 so the time it would take to upgrade 3 buildings with 2 builders would be too long especially for the tiny reward offered, at the very least it would take 12 hours where I wouldn't be able to to do any other quest until it is complete .

    2. "Produce 3 giant globes" - Reason: Steel is my special, I can't tie up my specials for 24 hours just to earn 500 steel and 10k, sure I'd earn more than that in 24 hours just putting them on 3 hour production times.

    3. "Produce 3 Mage journals" - Reason: Like Steel scrolls are also my special so I'm not going to tie up my scroll manufactories for 24 hours for a tiny reward (200 scrolls and 20k)

    4. "Complete 2 workshop upgrades to level 6 or higher" - Reason: Ties up the quests for to long and besides I'm not short of Supplies so I'd rather use that time and the builders on a more advantageous upgrade.

    5. "Train 300 units" - Reason: This is one I would never bother with, what ever chance you have of getting a few quests in while waiting for the upgrades above to be completed with this you are talking at least 9 hours stuck on this quest and that's assuming you are training Sword dancers or Archers but the problem is I'm far enough out on my map now that I use trenants and golems too and it would take me about a week to complete if I was training those. So it's not worth it for me to tie my quests and my fighting for 42k and 3600 supplies.

    You see Amy the thing is that currently I can complete the "Gain 4000 supplies" every 90 minutes and earn 70k each time for completing it and complete the "Gain 40,000 coins" twice (sometimes 3 times) every 2 hours and earn 8k supplies each time whereas if I was to tie up my quests with those longer ones I wouldn't earn even a quarter of that and with the market the way it is it is easier for me to keep looping those two quests and using the coins and supplies I earn to just buy the supplies I need off the wholesaler.

    The market is part of the problem, it has made it necessary for us to find an alternative way of acquiring the goods we need instead of having to sit there hoping someone will list some marble or planks you desperately need.
     
    Recksters likes this.
  7. Da Twista

    Da Twista Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    I only have problems with repeatable quests that require building time. The problem with these at a high level is they are a waste of time and resources because one needs to build them and then demolish them to complete a quest.

    Noble Residences - Complete 1 residence upgrade to level 6 or higher
    More culture - Gain 100 culture (This is exploitable)
    Increasing population - Gain 100 population (This is exploitable)
    Improved production - Get a boosted manufactory to level 6 or higher
    Good supplies - Get a non boosted manufactory to level 6 or higher
    Striving for improvement - get two buildings level 6 or higher
    Perfect Logistics - Get a workshop to level 6 or higher

    When I build and upgrade my city, I concentrate on certain areas at a time. If for culture I would spend a day or two just building culture buildings. Residences, I would spend a week upgrading all of them to the max. If I had these quests after I had finished a specific area in my city, I would need to build a building to get the requirement completed and then demolish the building. In some of the quests, the reward for completing the quest is not worth the resources used to get that building up.
     
  8. jixel

    jixel Spellcaster

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    I have a suggestion for something that might help, if the goal is for players to not keep repeating/declining quests:
    Allow exchange of Coins->Supplies and Supplies->Coins at the Wholesaler.

    I believe the "standard" ratio is 10:1 (i.e. 10,000 coins = 1000 Supplies). Apply the 5:1 Wholesaler markup (i.e. final ratio 50:1), so you'd get :
    Spend 10000 coins -> get 200 Supplies
    Spend 1000 Supplies -> get 2000 coins.

    This would mean that if a player gets "stuck" (e.g. low on Supplies) they always have a "last resort" option to get them building again - but it's expensive, so people will still generally try to build their cities to avoid needing it.

    Using an example from the discussion in the Beta forum - there was a player who can get 1,800,000 coins from visiting neighbours/fellowship.

    In the current system: with lots of clicking, they could complete the "gain 150k coins" quest at least 10 times, and get 100,000 Supplies. Note that they also get to spend the 1,800,000 coins as they wish (e.g. on scouting, upgrades, Goods, KPs, etc)

    With the above suggestions: No RQs, but they could choose to spend some or all of their coins on Supplies - they'd get at most 36,000, enough to stop them being completely stuck, but not so much as to completely unbalance the game (which I presume is the concern of the development team which led them to introduce this change in the first place).

    Basically, I'm suggesting a compromise solution:
    - Inno apparently wants to slow the game down a bit
    - Players don't want to get stuck due to lack of Supplies

    That's what my suggestion does - high-level players (and how many get nearly 2m coins from visiting ?) would still get something back for their efforts, but not as much as currently. Mid-level and low-level players, who were most impacted by the quest change, would be less likely to get completely stuck, and hopefully then less likely to abandon the game.
     
  9. jixel

    jixel Spellcaster

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    So to the specifics of which quests I skip, and why:
    First, some background - I'm still working my way through the tech tree, and I want to complete it in reasonably quick time - so I log on multiple times each day to spend KPs, otherwise some will be "lost". Since I'm on multiple times anyway, it's logical for me to set up 9hr or 3hr production of Goods and Supplies at the same time (and load up the Barracks queue, etc).

    So:
    Any quest which has 24hr (or longer) requirement, I will always skip.
    e.g. make 3 Giant Globes (24hrs x 3 steel manufactories - no thanks !)
    Build 1000 units (or 500 Sorceresses) - takes way too long, for too little reward.

    Any quest which I simply can't do at that time, I will obviously skip:
    Upgrade Residences, Workshops, Boosted (or non-Boosted) Manufactories - skip, skip, skip.
    (e.g I currently have no space, all level 15 residences, and 1 Population available - can't upgrade a thing)

    Any quest which isn't sufficiently profitable to me at the time, I will skip:
    At the moment, I get a quest to make 5000 Supplies, and then gain 100k coins - this is useful, but most of the time not worth the amount of clicking through other quests it takes to reach it. I only do it if happens to come up, and I remember it before collecting my Supplies.
     
  10. zgimli

    zgimli Dreamer

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2015
    Quests should not be for things that players are already doing, they should be extra activities for tasks that players would not otherwise do.

    There are several types of repeatable quest

    Complete 3 encounters
    Better to just increase the province reward, instead of having a quest fo something that I will do anyway

    Upgrade structures
    Better to just reduce the upgrade cost, instead of having a quest fo something that I will do anyway

    Gain coins/supplies
    (The only quests everyone actually does)
    Better to just increase production of workshops/house, instead of having a quest do something that I will do anyway

    Produce goods using the 1 day option
    Quest reward + factory output is less than producing goods with the 3 hour option, so active players avoid it, but useful for people who log in once a day. (These should stay)
     
  11. Kazobel

    Kazobel Guest

    But you are assuming people only use supplies for construction when this isn't the case at all, with the market in it's current state most people need to buy the goods they need from the wholesaler and the only way to get enough coins and supplies needed to maintain that is through constantly looping the Coins and Supplies quests. Removing those quests would quite literally put 90% of people into a stagnated state where they would not be able to make any upgrades to their city for days. It's not peoples faults that they had to resort to this, the root of the problem is how specials are assigned when people first join the game because if trade shows anything it shows that there is an obvious imbalance
     
  12. NecroDee

    NecroDee Bard

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Quests I ALWAYS skip:

    Train 1000 units - Takes too long for the small reward, and that's considering you're training one of the first 2 units as an Elf. If we start training treants for example, then this quest will take DAYS. Simple solution: make the Train 1k calculate the space of the troops (weight) instead of the number of them.

    Produce 3 (insert any of the 3 boosted goods) 1 day production (for example Luxury Armchairs) - Most active players do not produce any goods outside the 3 or 9 hour windows. Maybe if they are going somewhere for a day, but normally, no. Also, the rewards are not worth it. 500 planks and 10k gold for a 1 day production? Completely not worth the wait. Simple solution: Change these quests to the 9 hour productions.

    Spend 20 Knowledge Points - Too many knowledge points to spend for the quest. There are much better quests to go through. You can only have a maximum of 10 KPs at a time (when you wake up after a long night sleep for example) and will still need 10 more to complete this quest. Lets say you're solving encounters for this quest. So you just threw away 4 different quests you could have completed for this one. (Solve 4 encounters, Gain 4 relics, Complete a Province and Fight and Win 3 encounters) Simple solution: Change the quest to Spent 10 KPs OR make the quest rewards MUCH MUCH better for this quest. An interesting reward for example would be, complete this quest and get 5 free KPs. Then it might be worth it.

    The rest of the quest vary from great to situational, but the above 3 seems completely counter productive. You lose much more by doing them instead of skipping them and moving on to the next repeatable quest.

    Cheers,
    NecroDee..
     
  13. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    *UPDATED 2015-09-13*

    Here's my updated analysis of each Repeatable Quests.

    upload_2015-9-13_12-51-21.png

    The first few columns are self explanatory.

    The Rating column is simple:

    Great means I can use it multiple times per day
    Good means I can use it every day
    Ok means I cannot use it everyday
    Bad means I never use it

    The Frequency column is self explanatory. But a note on Weekly quests. The main reason is the fighting system that I can summarize with this: Build troops for a week, kill them all in a few hours. And don't worry about my fighting knowledge, I have fought over 800 times and I know what troops to use and how to fight.

    The Can Double Dip? column means that it can be used at the same time as another quest, when you have two RQs available.

    The Comments column explains how a quest can be used.

    If the developers are refuse my idea of putting a cooldown timer on the OK button, and continue with their very bad idea of blocking the Decline button: any Good, Ok and Bad quest will block us for a day or more. My idea will not impact the activity in the game as much as their idea. And we do not need any changes that will reduce the activity in the game.

    I laugh each time I see when I log into the game: "To have more than 150% Culture Bonus you will need the help of your neighbors!".

    What neighbors? If I get 3 neighbors that visit me in a day, it's a miracle. Usually it's 1, sometimes 2.

    It's obvious that the activity level is the biggest problem of this game. And focusing on the decline button will simply "decline" even more the activity level in the game.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2015
    AthenaTrophy and NecroDee like this.
  14. NecroDee

    NecroDee Bard

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Great analysis and completely correct with the "What neighbors?"
     
    Recksters likes this.
  15. NecroDee

    NecroDee Bard

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Also, the RQ is missing 1 quest.
    I forget the rewards, they are meager, but if you don't have a building connected to a street that requites a connection, a quest will pop up "awarding" you for having all the buildings connected to the town hall via street.
     
  16. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Ya, I know which quest you are referring to, but it's not part of the 25 RQs.
     
  17. sandgreen

    sandgreen Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2015
    Got a few adds ....

    First of all, calling "100 pop" and "100 culture" for bad quests is kinda stupid:D, since they are exploitable, and can be done hundred of times a day each if u want to:p

    Second, "100 pop" quest is good for "double dip" when u got 2 RQs as well, with one of the resi-quests.. When your houses are completing... Are u looking for coins, then this one is better then any of the other ones...

    Last but not least 3000 goods and 2000 goods can "double dip" as well
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2015
  18. NecroDee

    NecroDee Bard

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    I think Recks rated the quests in the way they're actually meant to be completed....aka sans exploits, in which case, those quests would be quite bad.
     
  19. NecroDee

    NecroDee Bard

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Also, the gain goods quest (3k goods) are also semi-exploitable via trades.
    Trades are counted towards this "gain" so it's very easy to do this quest many many times per day.
     
  20. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Pffft. :p

    You are right, the 100 pop and 100 culture can be exploited, but I have better things to do with my builders; for now.

    Yes, about the 3000 goods, I had it updated in my list, as a double-dip. I will update the graphic tonight.

    Good point about double-dipping the 100 pop, I will update my list. But only if you upgrade 3+ at the same time, or from level 14 to 15, which brings 50 each.

    Thanks for the input. Sorry for being stupid, but you already know that, I'm the dumbest Archmage and top 20 guy. :p

    Reck
     

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