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[Feedback] Magic Academy Improvements

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Amy Steele, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. Katwijk

    Katwijk Scholar

    Aug 24, 2015
    The developers have quite clearly indicated that the Magic Academy is here to stay.

    The Main Hall, the Trader, the Barracks, and the Magic Academy are all basic buildings that can't be deleted.

    Everybody either has one of each, or will have one as soon as our Cassandras are done flouncing around. It doesn't even matter if those buildings contribute to your score because you'll only have one of each and they take up the same amount of space for everybody. (And yes, I know the Barracks gets larger.)

    We've GOT the tools, whether you want them or not, so figure out how to maximize their benefit, and suggest all sorts of improvements, that's what's been requested, but there's NO point in bewailing the very existence of the Magic Academy.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
    Prendyo, cherri and Eieumeo like this.
  2. Eieumeo

    Eieumeo Novice

    Apr 14, 2016
    Well said Katwikj, its just one of those things, in time the MA will become more useful and for barracks and trader i can understand people's problem's with these three, mainly space that they take but that will just have to be build into the way you want to play your game. its a shame there isn't more option to suit everyone but thats life. :)
  3. Horanda

    Horanda Enchanter

    Jul 25, 2015
    Here is a possible solutions for some of the MA issues. Set up two avenues for upgrades. Start the MA at 2x2, fitting the smaller cities where it has to be built. As the player progresses, encourage the upgrade of the Academy to 3x3, 4x4, 5x5. This upgrade path may add points by using culture or population. Additional slots are seperate, with the first available at 3x3 for the current price, then further ones for diamonds at the larger sizes. This retains whatever plans the devs have for the MA, while softening most of the arguments against it as it stands now.
    Marrra likes this.
  4. bolthorn

    bolthorn Guest

    If the developers did not intend for there to be a magic academy, they wouldn't have made one in the first place--so thank you for continuing to point out the obvious. As far as what they have "quite clearly indicated" after having made it, is that they have quite clearly indicated they realize there are big problems and that people are unhappy. We wouldn't have moderators posting threads on the subject of how to improve it, or have had people get official Elvenar in-game links to survey's asking questions about the subject if they didn't realize there were problems. At best they don't know exactly where they are going with it yet--whether that be not knowing what spells to include/improve or whether they modify its existence or the ability to remove it in individual cities. I admit I don't know that they will make the right decision or if they will follow the advice of the majority of the players. But they clearly know it is a problem, are listening, and are giving it a lot of thought; with this being true I find it ridiculous that Katwijk feels justified in smugly telling the majority of players to shut up and put up with it.

    I think most of us are willing to wait, at least a little while, for feedback. So you know what is keeping these threads, which you claim to dislike, alive right now? It is the repeated visits to the thread to try to put your thumb in the eye of those who are looking for a positive change. It is because of that asinine behaviour that this thread remains vigorously active. You are your own worst enemy.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2016
    Lynxze, Lady Woodland and Heisenberg like this.
  5. s5carrot

    s5carrot Sorcerer

    Oct 11, 2015
    To add on to my idea, I think the MA can be regarded as a pinnacle of knowledge. Upgrading it should also provide a little offset in the purchasing of KP for all levels or either increase the Total KP of 10 to +2 per level upgrade or provide a token that would reduce the KP needed for research. That should do the trick to make it really worthwhile :D
  6. Penjara

    Penjara Conjurer

    Mar 12, 2016
    as i have said before. they can do what they like with the MA as long as i am not forced to have any involvement with it.
    Sudoku likes this.
  7. Slotharingia

    Slotharingia Scholar

    Oct 5, 2015
    The MA and the Barracks should be optional to diversify gameplay methods and strategy. However, since they are not, the MA needs to be redesigned.

    The MA as it is, is a lumbering waste of space. It would be far more interesting if we could use it to forge permanent spells using relics, with each tier of the spell requiring more relics. For example: If someone wanted to boost their culture, they would need 3 each of 3 types of relic. Said relic would then upgrade to a tier 2 relic. For the next upgrade, they would need 3 tier 2 relics and so on. In this way, the MA would ingest relics constantly while serving a tangible purpose, as opposed to just wasting space. Players could choose to concentrate on specific spells, or have a wider range of weaker boosts.

    As it is now, the spells are useless unless the player is online 24-7, and even then, they are not particularly good. The 24-7 thing does not apply to the culture spell, but that's not very useful full stop, unless you are permanently on the brink of reaching the next level culture boost. I use the thing because it's there, but I hate it.
    Marrra, Penjara and AlexLiu like this.
  8. AlexLiu

    AlexLiu Seeker

    Apr 14, 2016
    Or how about transforming a so not-wanted building (even tho' I, personaly, find it quite intersting and usefull at certain times) into a Fellowship goal? For instance, you can design it to have a connection between all members of a Fellowship and all those members to contribute with materials and relics to create powerful spells to help the entire Fellowship? In this way, brings a little sparkle in some of the Fellowships where not much is happening except trades and helping each other. Also, each Fellowship can receive a few good points in rank for create spells and improving the one they already created.

    My 2 cents, please. :)
    Lady Woodland likes this.
  9. Lady Woodland

    Lady Woodland Adventurer

    Jan 29, 2016
    Well said bolthorn,

    I have just completed another survey about future guest races which is interesting, I hear we are about to get tournaments in the next few weeks but it appears the devs seem to have forgotten that they would consider the impact this building has had on the game and players. Please don't treat us with contempt ignoring the issue, Penjara is correct enough time has passed, and no answer. Players are continuing to provide some idea's for goodness sake act on them.

    Katwijk you seem to be deliberately set out to antagonise Penjara in particular with your flippant comments, if you have no substantial positive feedback that adds to your support of the MA then please continue playing with the aspect of the game you apparently enjoy and allow others to provide the feedback that has been asked for by the developers.
  10. Penjara

    Penjara Conjurer

    Mar 12, 2016
    Over two weeks. Still nothing from the developers.

    Despite all of the assurances we have all heard from support/moderators, for whom I have considerabe sympathy in situations like this, we are faced with what can only be described as intransigence.

    We can only wonder, for how long will they continue to ignore the overwhelming player feedback against the MA?

    Let's not give up hope.

    We have to make sure that they are being continually reminded.

    Last edited: Apr 23, 2016
    Sudoku and mikeatgatwick like this.
  11. TheWizEd

    TheWizEd Adventurer

    Apr 4, 2016
    Everybody is completely missing the reason MA is in the game. Inno has invested a great deal of money and effort into developing it, integrating it with the game engine and implementing in beta. You can't go back to your boss and say, "You know that MA we worked on? We have to throw it away".
    AlexLiu likes this.
  12. Arjavh

    Arjavh Soothsayer

    Apr 6, 2016
    For the most part (with a couple of exceptions) players are not saying throw the Magic Academy out. They are just asking to have the quests related to the Magic Academy able to be declined. That way they can continue to progress in the game at their own pace with their individual city design, without losing the ability to do any quests because they are stuck with quests they cannot decline.

    Personally, on the EN server, I have started a new city and am currently in stage 2 of the tech tree. The return on investment of the Magic Academy is not worth the 5x5 space it takes at this point. I built it anyway and am working around it. The up side is I have quite a bit of experience playing the game on the beta server so can easily plan around it. For a new player, a building this large in chapter 1, could be quite a detriment if they don't understand the mechanics of the game well at that point.

    Ideally, the Magic Academy would not be mandatory in chapter1 ( I know you don't have to make it, but by sticking you with a quest you cannot decline ) it pretty much is railroading you into building it. Or make it able to be deleted and rebuilt later when you can make better use of it.

    By all means, there is no need to delete it, or destroy all the work that went into designing it, it just needs to be tweaked a bit.
  13. Penjara

    Penjara Conjurer

    Mar 12, 2016
    When I have made a mistake I admit it, learn from it and move on. I don't stick my head in the sand, hope no one notices and drag all those effected by a mess I have created.

    A little hurt pride, a lesson learnt, now let's all players who don't want the MA to delete the stupid thing.

    The alternative is more and more players are leaving the game because they are being told, in no uncertain terms, that Inno is not interested in player feedback.

    You need to make a decision on the MA now. It's nearly 3 weeks.

    We can't make game decisions without know if, should we build the MA, we will ever be able to delete it.

    Time up!!! Decide.


    Editing of users posts is seen as an extreme action on all forums, very much a last resort. Particularly when the moderator does not make it clear what has been edited.

    Even moving a post from one thread to another or, as happened today, killing a post and appending it to an previously existing thread can seriously change the meaning and context of the posting.

    Many forum contributors would see it as a threat and/or as an insult.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2016
    Sudoku likes this.
  14. Lady Woodland

    Lady Woodland Adventurer

    Jan 29, 2016
    I have 3 cities all waiting for me to build an MA, the sheer size of the space is the main issue I have with it, I don't see or hear of any great gains in building it so I haven't. I particularly like and agree with Arjavh's comments here, compared to other similar games Elvenar is very user friendly and captivates you easily and quickly I would be interested to see the stats on how quickly players start abandoning the game at the level where they reach this building and decide it's just too complicated.
  15. TheRodent

    TheRodent Conjurer

    Aug 25, 2015
    I've found the MA handy for workshops recently. But now I got workshops upgraded, I won't be needing the MA anymore as I'm now making the tools I need to upgrade residences to Fairy Purple Houses.

    I used the free production spells and the free culture spells, but have yet to actually make any using the MA.

    Seriously, it needs to have a delete function. As too does the Barracks. I barely fight any more, it's cheaper and easier to negotiate than waste supplies on troops that die with one hit anyway.
    Sudoku likes this.
  16. Eilith

    Eilith Dreamer

    Mar 27, 2016
    Just make it a lot smaller and deletable. These seem to be the two things that virtually everyone is asking for. After that you could go through the options of making it more usefull that others have suggested. I dont understand why you cant just start it small with the option to upgrade it like all the other buildings. It would solve virtually every complaint that has come from it.

    I do love this game but there are one or two niggles, the difficulty in gaining land grids, the inability to move those grids if you make a newbie mess up with your positioning, which I have and the magic academy size are pretty much the only niggles so far with me. I had another issue which was sorted out very fast which I appreciate.
  17. oldskoolrx7

    oldskoolrx7 Sorcerer

    Apr 9, 2016
    You keep saying this sort of thing without having a basis for WHY. The main hall, trader and barracks are integral to the game, the MA is not. The MA represents a boost building, in a similar way to other buildings that provide resources. If you want more people, you build/upgrade houses. You can CHOOSE to have less people, by deleting houses. Same with workshops etc. The MA is a similar thing, you can choose to use it to gain a benefit. When I no longer need so much culture, or something else comes along I would prefer, I can delete it (EDIT ...a culture building). That is EXACTLY the category the MA falls into, no-essential production boosts.
    The MA (AFAIK) will become useless once you run out of relics, will the devs still say you have to have it once it is a waste of space?

    I get you want to support the devs, you may even be one in disguise. The simple fact is, there is no logical reason why the MA should not be deletable. Until you can give a rational, reasonable BENEFIT to the MA being non-deletable, then the devs just are not listening to their paying customers.

    Saying it gives bonuses is NOT a reason, it can give bonuses AND be deletable.
    Sudoku likes this.
  18. mikeatgatwick

    mikeatgatwick Conjurer

    Dec 1, 2015
    hi oldskoolrx

    I do feel your despair about the MA. Unfortunately I don't think it will ever disappear. The only hope is for it to improve, as promised in the May video update. If you do not build it and get on with the story line quests you will fall behind on that and have to do a lot of silly quest things to catch up on. I have build it and put it on the side lines, as I don't use it.
    oldskoolrx7 likes this.
  19. oldskoolrx7

    oldskoolrx7 Sorcerer

    Apr 9, 2016
    I have built it, the MA is not the real issue here. The issue is that there is no reason for it not to be deletable and I feel as a paying customer, the devs are giving me the finger. <shrug>
    Sudoku likes this.
  20. mikeatgatwick

    mikeatgatwick Conjurer

    Dec 1, 2015
    as I have said in previous posts, if it came out as this shiny new building that worked would have build it without a shrug, but it came out useless from the start and we were asked to improve it. on the video is has a meditation spell, hope that is for the scout and motivates him. then I will use it a bit. but with training times been so poor, I don't know if faster scouting will be worth it for me. I, like you just don't see a need for it. as for relic's, with the tournaments hopefully starting next week, you will be able to get relic's for it from that.