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Discussion Evolution of the Phoenix

UlyssesBlue

Enchanter
The Storm phoenix displays MM "+ 55%". I have a level 21 trade centre. MM spells display a "+87.5%" effect.

My guess would be that since an unboosted MM spell provides + 50%, the storm phoenix at level 1 provides a 10% boost to that (10% of 50 = 5) that the storm phoenix plus my level 21 trade centre would provide 10% extra of an 87.5% boost, 96.25% total.

Without placing and using pet food, all we will be able to do is guess :(
This sounds like a bug. Either that info is correct and the phoenix will actually decrease your MM effect (which is probably not how it's supposed to work), or that info is incorrect, in which case the way it's displayed in game is not working correctly. Either scenario indicates a bug and I recommend reporting it.

I suspect how it actually works (or is meant to work) is it gives a 5% increase per level over what it would otherwise be. E.g. if your normal MM spells are 50%, then with a level 1 storm they'll become 55%, with a level 10 they'll become 100%. For you, 87.5% will probably become 92.5% to 137.5%, depending on storm level.

Placing and using the phoenix will be the most definitive way to find out, but contacting support will likely work as well. If you report this as a bug you can probably find out what it will actually do if used in your city. If you do, let us know. ;)
 

UlyssesBlue

Enchanter
This is an interesting analysis, but I won't necessarily jump to conclusions on best upgrades based just off that. Have you taken into account that there is limited amount of pet food and MM spells per week that you can get? I assume you can't run 24/7 on MMs; once you run out of MMs it doesn't matter how high your Storm is, and whether you have pet food or not - your Storm is useless, while Aureate is not.

Similarly, there is only so many pet food instants you can get per week. With two phoenixes, you will face a choice of which one to feed to get maximum effect given limited food. This decision will be intertwined with your choice of which one to upgrade; you can't make it standalone.

My 0.02.
The analysis I posted is simply crunching the numbers to see what will happen in each possible scenario. I provided the information just to help people understand how they work, and how they might interact, since there is a lot of confusion about those two phoenixes. Details such as MM spell and pet food availability are going to be city dependent, so I didn't go into this sort of detail. I make no conclusions as to which scenario is best for people, just provided some details that can help them make a decision.

I have already taken into account the additional factors you mentioned, as well as several others, when considering what will work best for my city. At this stage I can rule out the storm phoenix and a combination of storm and aureate if I am focusing just on the feed effects. I am still considering factors such as the daily benefits, population and culture, which of course requires no spells or pet food.

As an example, if I build both the storm and fire phoenixes and upgrade each to level 4 they will produce the same amount of supplies as 2.85 of my workshops, while taking up roughly half of the space. They will also give me about 1450 population. If I decide to delete 3 workshops to compensate for the increase in supply production, I will gain a further 4602 population. At this point I am considering feed bonuses as only a minor factor in the overall value of a phoenix.
 
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MinMax Gamer

Sorcerer
As an example, if I build both the storm and fire phoenixes and upgrade each to level 4 they will produce the same amount of supplies as 5.5 of my workshops, while taking up a third of the space. They will also give me about 1450 population. If I decide to delete 5 workshops to compensate for the increase in supply production, I will gain a further 7670 population. At this point I am considering feed bonuses as only a minor factor in the overall value of a phoenix.
That's a good point. I haven't looked closely at supplies stats before. But it looks a bit too good to be true ;) - which chapter are you looking at?

In Woodelves, L4 phoenixes produce 40-45K supplies (my in-game tooltip and GoK disagree on the exact numbers, not sure why). So 80-90K supplies between the two, and I believe phoenixes are on 48h cycles (correct me if I am wrong). So that's 40-45K supplies a day.

Now, L23 workshops produce about 4.2K/3h without culture bonus, and about 6.7K/3h with culture bonus (pretty hard to avoid that in Woodelves ;) ). Assuming 6x 3h collections a day, 1x workshop produces 25-40K supplies a day. So replacement value of 2 phoenixes purely on supply output is 1-2, not 5.5. Am I missing something, or is the math very different in other chapters?

I mean, it is still pretty good considering pop and culture release, but I doubt it is THAT good ;)

The downside of the replacement that upgrades will need Artifacts and Royal Restoration, and both are pretty scarce. But then you don't need a bazillion of orcs for workshop upgrades.
 

UlyssesBlue

Enchanter
Ah, my mistake. I thought the phoenix productions were 24hrs. It wasn't made clear anywhere that they were actually 48hrs. I've adjusted my figures, but they are still very powerful buildings that will allow me to remove 2 or 3 workshops, and gain thousands of population in the process. I am in sorcerers and dragons, if you're curious, however your other assumptions about my city and play style are incorrect, so those numbers are very different to what occurs in my city.

Because those numbers are going to depend on a huge number of factors, including play style, they're going to be different for everyone. My point is simply that people should not disregard a phoenix just because the feed bonus is of little benefit, and instead consider the other benefits it offers. These are very powerful buildings, so have the potential to do a lot for a city even when the feed bonus isn't used, or only used infrequently.
 

FieryArien

Sorcerer
What do people in Orcs do in these events??? There wasn’t any major event when my bigger city was in Orcs, so this is my first time. Even though I’ll be focusing on maximizing the feathers, I’m sure I’ll score some daily specials along the way, so choosing random day doesn’t cut it. ;-) The question is: what does this event have for players in Orcs? Is anyone in the same situation? (Or was and still remembers it?)

- There is literally no point trying for any cult/pop/whatever building. (Who doesn’t know what I’m talking about, please just go to Gems or Elvenarchitect webpages and lookup the big jump in stats of event buildings between Orcs and Woodelves chapter).
- There is no point going for Wishing Well as there is literally not a square available for toying around.

I’m currently thinking about 30 KP instants for upgrading wonders; or about 20 squares big buildings to disenchant into spell fragments. I was also thinking about trying some (1 or 2) mana building which I upgrade once I get into Woodelves to produce mana, but that doesn’t seem very efficient strategy for more than very few buildings ... Are there any other reasonable options I’m missing?
 

pompeywolf

Scholar
when i was in orcs i went after the time instants, kp (or the military boost buildings, not in events now), but things have changed so its up to you.
for example i went for the biggest building in the carnival event just so i can disenchant them when i need the fragments.
 

MinMax Gamer

Sorcerer
What do people in Orcs do in these events??? There wasn’t any major event when my bigger city was in Orcs, so this is my first time. Even though I’ll be focusing on maximizing the feathers, I’m sure I’ll score some daily specials along the way, so choosing random day doesn’t cut it. ;-) The question is: what does this event have for players in Orcs? Is anyone in the same situation? (Or was and still remembers it?)

- There is literally no point trying for any cult/pop/whatever building. (Who doesn’t know what I’m talking about, please just go to Gems or Elvenarchitect webpages and lookup the big jump in stats of event buildings between Orcs and Woodelves chapter).
- There is no point going for Wishing Well as there is literally not a square available for toying around.

I’m currently thinking about 30 KP instants for upgrading wonders; or about 20 squares big buildings to disenchant into spell fragments. I was also thinking about trying some (1 or 2) mana building which I upgrade once I get into Woodelves to produce mana, but that doesn’t seem very efficient strategy for more than very few buildings ... Are there any other reasonable options I’m missing?
Different event have different daily prizes, so it's hard to compare. I agree that cult/pop buildings probably make little sense for you - I only go for them tactically, when I miss a few hundred pop/culture in the total chapter plan, and 1-2 hybrids just top it up until later chapters. I also generally think that getting buildings from events for disenchanting is kind of a waste of event - there are other ways to get fragments (e.g. disenchanting spells from tournaments)

Completely disagree with you on Wishing Wells - unless you pay for diamonds (in this case WWs are nothing to write home about). First of all, there is always room for WWs. I was running Orcs with ~70 farms/5 rally points, and still had 4 WWs operational. I've been running 4 WWs constantly since chapter 3 (chapter 10 now). So there is that.

More importantly, you don't need to place them right away! They can sit in your inventory and wait for their time. Unlike most other buildings, primary WWs benefit (diamonds, also KPs) does not diminish with your progress. You don't get them for their culture ;) And WWs are becoming more scarce. Previously, you could count on WWs being in daily prizes. Last event you only had them as a Grand Prize (so you effectively could only get 1 per event). I would load up on WWs while I have a chance! I did in last September (got 9 of them), and just placed the last one from that stash yesterday. That's with running 4x WWs at all times. I've got 4-5 premium expansions with free diamonds already.

Other things I'd go for are trading posts and portal profit instants. If you're in Orcs, you probably already have an idea of how good these could be. None are in dailies so far though - but they may still show up later.

And I'd also pick up a few long time boosters - these are pretty useful for upgrading your 24/7 buildings - in particular, barracks. But there are other ways to get time boosters (crafting, chest consolation prizes etc). I wouldn't go for KP instants; if you're active in tournaments, 30 KP instant is nothing. Unless you have absolutely nothing else to get (not true, see above).
 

explorerpitt

Dreamer
I have, I finished all 118 sequential quests a couple of days ago and was expecting to only have daily quests and egg drops until the end but now another quest has appeared, I'm not complaining, just curious as there seems to be nothing announcing this.
 

Dizzy Lizzie

Ex-Team Member
I have, I finished all 118 sequential quests a couple of days ago and was expecting to only have daily quests and egg drops until the end but now another quest has appeared, I'm not complaining, just curious as there seems to be nothing announcing this.
Some additional Quests have been added today onto Evolution of Phoenix giving you a chance to earn more rewards. This was in response to feedback from our Beta players who felt that there were insufficient Quests.
 

Timneh

Sage
Some advance notice of the additionla quests would have been nice. It would also have been a massive surprise if they actually had told us beforehand.
 

kimkimkim

Enchanter
Here is the list of new quests straight from GoK

115 Produce Basket of Groceries 15 times
116 Produce Toolbox 9 times
117 Gain 18 Relics
118 Solve 12 Encounters OR
Solve 60 Tournament Encounters
119 Produce [Tier 1 Boost] [9 hrs] 12 times
120 Produce [Tier 1 Boost] [1 day] 10 times
121 Produce [Tier 1 Boost] [3 hrs] 15 times
122 Produce [Tier 1 Boost] [2 days] 6 times
123 Gain 18 Relics
124 Solve 12 Encounters OR
Solve 60 Tournament Encounters
125 Scout 1 Province or upgrade 1 Building to level 16 or higher
126 Produce 15 Baskets of Groceries
127 Produce 20 Toolboxes
128 Solve 12 Encounters or 60 Tournament Encounters
129 Produce [Tier 1 Boost] [9 hrs] 12 times
130 Produce [Tier 1 Boost] [1 day] 10 times
131 Produce [Tier 1 Boost] [3 hrs] 15 times
132 Produce [Tier 1 Boost] [2 days] 6 times
133 Scout 2 Provinces
134 Gain 18 Relics

Mod Edit: spoiler added
 
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