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End of repeatable quests...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Recksters, Sep 1, 2015.

?

Do you agree to limit the declineable quests as shown in the Beta server?

  1. Yes

    10 vote(s)
    17.9%
  2. No

    46 vote(s)
    82.1%
  1. Da Twista

    Da Twista Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    "In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers." - wiki

    Fact: Recently nerfed quest requirement - Release Notes version 0.23
    Fact: Changes in declining quests - (The very first line states "For the past few months, we have observed our quest system and we have come to the conclusion that it does not work as intended.")

    If it was the developers intention to have players take advantage of the repeatable quests like this, why are they changing it? I don't need paragraphs of text, just a straight answer will do. Thank you.
     
  2. Kazobel

    Kazobel Guest

    The Wiki is wrong, it says that an "exploit" is something used in a manner not intended by the game designers but where exactly does it tell you when you register "There are declineable quests that you could loop endlessly but we never intended you to do that so please don't"? are people suppose to be psychic and in some way extract the true intent of the developers by asking their cat?

    Again that is closing the barn door after the horse has bolted, no one is arguing that is isn't working as they intended but that was their fault not anyone else's and it took them a few months to realise that so why do you assume that anyone who is not a developer of the game should work it out any sooner? See you are accusing people of exploitation of an issue that even the developers took months to cop on to and until they did no one even called it exploitation, it was just seen as an aspect of the game but now all of a sudden attention is drawn to it everyone is throwing around words like "Exploitation" and "Abuse". They are fully aware of it and can stop it anytime they wish but chose not to so the only conclusion is that it is still considered a valid way to use the declineable quests and as such not exploitation nor abuse of bad forward planning
     
  3. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Please, those that think the RQs are exploits. There are RQs in FoE as well. Nobody is talking about them being exploits. It's up to you to setup your city to do many per day. Fix the trading system and we will not have a reason to do them as much as we do them now. I would prefer pay 50% to trade with someone I don't know than 80% in the wholesaler. Hello? Anybody home?
     
  4. Katwijk

    Katwijk Scholar

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    This isn't even close to being correct. In FoE, as an example, 3 of the cycle quests require FIVE 24 hour production units. Very few people have multiples of the oddball supply buildings, but it's convenient to be able to pick up the, essentially week-long, quests.

    Regarding exploits, you could throw a cat through the definition at https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/game-rules.9/
    Judging by the recent efforts to put the brakes on using declinable quests as a piggy bank, it seems pretty clear that the developers think that clicking through 24 declinable quests, several times per day, "could represent an advantage for you or for other players."

    But looking at it from 30,000 feet, the gold standard would be declinable quests that are well balanced, whereupon it would no longer be advantageous to skip most of them. We'll know rather quickly if the developer have achieved that goal, because we can rest assured that the players will "adequately test" the revised quests.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2015
    darkmic and Da Twista like this.
  5. Kazobel

    Kazobel Guest

    I have never played FoE, as a matter of fact I have no idea what FoE actually means so that means nothing to me


    Now see this is an example of an ill defined rule, how is anyone suppose to be able to tell whether something is a feature of the game or just the result of bad programming? for all anyone knows it could be there by intent. They can't make a mess of things and then put the onus on the player for playing the game using the tools provided. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2015
  6. Da Twista

    Da Twista Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    The decline button was purposely placed in the game to decline unwanted quests - I don't deny that fact. Use it, no one is going to complain if you decline quests - no one has been punished for doing so either. I don't have a problem with this setup as much as I do with the exploitable ones.

    The exploit I'm pointing out which I did a few posts back, that is a problem and was not widely known. My guess is that the devs didn't see it as a high priority problem hence why only after a lot more players started doing it this way - they decided it's time for a change. And I do believe that this type of quest was one of the main reasons they decided to look into changing the repeatable quest system. That was an unforeseen circumstance and should be fixed along with the "Gain 100 culture" quest. The exploit comes in when a player is intentionally building and demolishing residences to fulfill the requirement. The developer's intentions were to have the player build a residence and continue upgrading it. As with all the other quests in the repeatable quest sequence, it's supposed to act as a guidance for the player.

    This is a strategic city builder game, logically one would expect to build a city that supports itself. Gaining an income from the city you built and not relying solely on outside features for the income. Any outside help would be considered a bonus rather than a full income.

    The quests in FoE work differently to the ones here and also have undergone some changes.

    Perhaps no one is replying to your point because not everyone is experiencing the problems you are with the trading system. The devs can only provide so much, it is also up to the player to adapt and fix issues they have themselves.
    We get it, you have problems getting goods - I don't because I am in a good fellowship. Perhaps it's time to start looking at options like these to help yourself along instead of complaining about it in nearly every post you make in this thread.

    Correct, and this is the reason why no one was ever punished.
     
    darkmic, Vergs and NecroDee like this.
  7. NecroDee

    NecroDee Bard

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Kaz, FoE is Forge of Empires, another InnoGames Flash based browser game.
    It's quite similar to this one, the largest difference being is that it has PvP and Guild vs Guild battles.

    While I agree with most of you that RQs are not exploits at all..Twista has pointed out one particular quest that most definitely was not meant to be abused the way it CAN be abused. Again, for me, it's just waaaaay too many clicks for an "ok" reward, but some people don't have a problem with sitting there and clicking all day.

    I'm in the same boat as Twista as I've recently switched fellowships to one that is more on my level in terms of trading and I really don't have any issues with getting the resources I need. With my old fellowship, the players were much less active and way below me in progression which started to stagnate my own growth due to lack of trade-able resources. They are all great people, just not as active as I needed my fellowship to be.
     
    darkmic and Da Twista like this.
  8. Kazobel

    Kazobel Guest

    But see this is a thing I don't get, why are there repeating quests asking you to put your production on a 24 hour cycle? how does that act as a guide? firstly unless you are blind you already know there is a 24 hour option, we are not that thick that we need it pointed out and secondly the 24 hour quests don't teach you how to develop your city they slow you down since completing a 24 hour quest would give you less than eight 3 hour production times. It's retarded to claim any of those long quests improve your knowledge of the game because all you learn from them is never to do them again. At the end of the day it is obvious the declineable quests aren't working and never will so the only options are to either leave it as it is or just scrap it altogether and just admit it was a total mess up from the start.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2015
    darkmic and NecroDee like this.
  9. Da Twista

    Da Twista Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    Relax, I'm not fighting with you - no need to get so uptight :)

    I didn't say the repeatable quests are perfect - I don't think anyone thinks they are. Just like some of the quests in the main quest line are asking for non-boosted manufactories and to produce goods from them. A lot of players do not bother building non-boosted manufactories so I don't see the point. But the repeatable quests are more forgiving in that manner that you can decline them because obviously, you would get more having 3 hour shifts rather than a 24 hour shift. Amy dedicated a whole thread for us to share our views on which quests should be tweaked or removed because InnoGames wants to make changes and, believe it or not, they are asking for our opinions so they have viable feedback to work from.
     
  10. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Did I start the most "popular" thread in this forum so far?

    upload_2015-9-10_19-19-30.png
     
  11. Kazobel

    Kazobel Guest


    Firstly I'm not getting uptight, I'm just saying it as it is albeit a bit more emphatically than most would but I just blame that on the fact that I am Irish and we tend to feel that a sentence isn't complete unless you throw in at least one curse lol :D

    See this is another thing I don't get, you admit repeatable quests are there to help us but then call people "Exploiters" for repeating them which is a contradiction really so which is it, are repeatable quests there to be repeated or is any one who repeats a repeatable quest repeatably a repeat exploiter?
     
    Da Twista likes this.
  12. Da Twista

    Da Twista Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    I referred to the certain quests as exploitable and open to abuse but never accused a player of being an exploiter, and the reason for this is because it took InnoGames so long to address this issue plus most of you players have not taken the true advantage of the quests that is actually available. How you play your game is simply your purview and I'm not really fussed about that - but my preference is playing a game where such 'exploitable' options are not available. I left both FoE EN and FoE US moderation teams and the game because they failed to address the problems efficiently.

    I joined this game because I wanted something that will take a lot of time to complete, a game that requires some brain power. I wasn't looking for a clickfest game like clickerheroes to progress through it. I would also like to compete in the rankings which would force me to exploit the game to keep up with the high level guys because a lot of them are doing it.
     
    darkmic and Vergs like this.
  13. sandgreen

    sandgreen Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2015
    Don´t forget u can make 15k coins and 8500 sups, by doing the 100 culture quest in the same 3 min round...
     
    darkmic and Da Twista like this.
  14. Kazobel

    Kazobel Guest


    But if everyone was "exploiting" the repeatable quests we would all be on a level playing field again. See I am of the opinion that all the people who say it is an "exploit" are just feeling hard done by because they can't be bothered to cycle quests so they don't think anyone else should be allowed to it because then it would suit their gameplay. The truth is if I am willing to decline 25 quest an hour to get to one that suits me then then I should be allowed to because that suits my gameplay, it is no one elses business especially not someone who has the option to do the same but can't be bothered to do it for themselves because that's the crux of this argument, whether I and others like me should be allowed do it when others can't be bothered
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2015
  15. Lisica

    Lisica Guest

    They aren't just going through those quests, they are also spending diamonds in freefall mode, after all we can use diamonds to speed up the game, diamonds can be used to speed build both buildings and troops, can be used to buy expansions, to buy KP, to pay for all techs regardless of having the goods or not, we can't use diamonds to start the buildings or to help with trading but they will speed up the game in a phenominal way.

    It will never be a level playing field, those who use diamonds are speeding up the game and going up the rankings faster than those who don't, those who use repeatable quests are also speeding up the game by getting more gold/supplies than those who never decline a quest.

    Arguing for and against the repeatable quests is a moot point at the moment because if we can't decline then short of spending all the money we have on diamonds there is no other way of getting enough gold/supplies to buy goods at the wholesaler rather than waiting for the ones we can produce with boosts and then hoping to trade for what we want. Surely the issue right now isn't these quests its about a workable trade system? Fix the trading and then sort repeatable quests.

    If people want a game that requires brain power and takes a lot of time to complete then they should never decline quests nor buy diamonds...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2015
    Zoli and Josiah like this.
  16. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    upload_2015-9-11_18-30-7.png

    I love to have two RQs SO MUCH for double-dipping that I refuse to unlock these techs, cuz I know it will remove me one RQ and I will lose the double-dipping until I'm done filling the Superior techs. :p
     
  17. Kazobel

    Kazobel Guest

    Totally agree, by the definitions of what is claimed to be an "Exploit" on this thread buying diamonds would fill the criteria of being a MASSIVE exploit since diamonds are limited only to the amount a person is willing to spend. If someone was so inclined they could easily buy enough diamonds to get to the top 10 in ranks in 1 week so technically speaking everyone who buys diamonds is an exploiter.
     
  18. Lisica

    Lisica Guest

    There is also another point while talking about the culture and population quests, the main questline already pushes us along that line even without "exploiting" or "abusing" the repeatables, we have to build one each of our third tier non-boosted goods, I built them, got the reward, and promptly pulled them down again as at the time I was following the advice of not having non-boosted goods and I needed the space, so it could be said that I exploited that quest, and then later on we have 2 quests one after the other to upgrade the non boosted 3rd tier buildings, so I had to build them again in order to upgrade them, by that time I realised that it would be useful to have a top up so I kept them, however if I had been keeping only the boosted goods manufactories then I would have sold them - does that make me an "exploiter" or "abuser" based on the what people are saying about the repeatable quests, or is that a reasonable action? If it is a reasonable action then why would I be exploiting or abusing the same type of quest on the repeatable line?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2015
  19. sandgreen

    sandgreen Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2015
    U lose the second RQ line, when you complete the first tier 2 superior upgrade, and then you get it back after you have completed all 3 superior tier 2... Or i did :p
     
  20. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Ah, didn't know, didn't want to take the risk. :)

    Update

    I activated them, and I got a few quick quests to do, but quickly got back the 2nd RQ line. Thanks sand.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2015

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