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End of repeatable quests...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Recksters, Sep 1, 2015.

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Do you agree to limit the declineable quests as shown in the Beta server?

  1. Yes

    10 vote(s)
    17.9%
  2. No

    46 vote(s)
    82.1%
  1. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    I think this game is going downhill. I regret spending money in it. I'm used to other online gaming compagnies like Inno, and when they create other games, they build on a previous game, they don't start over as if they didn't create a game before and reinvent the wheel all the time.
     
  2. Horanda

    Horanda Enchanter

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2015
    Abuse is using a feature of a game in a way that it was not intended to be used (has nothing to do with design). That it was not intended is shown by the fact that they are trying to fix it.

    I also am struggling to understand why people need to use this feature. True, I am only in the mid-purple, but I have had to tell my alliance to stop giving cash on visits because it just ends up with the wholesaler. I haven't run short of supplies since early in the second tier of the knowledge tree. This may change further up the tree, but I see no evidence of it at the moment. If people at the top are struggling, it is either because of poor planning on their part, or because Inno has not released new content quickly enough.
     
    Vergs likes this.
  3. Da Twista

    Da Twista Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    I agree 100%.

    If a player is struggling, they are doing it wrong. I talk from experience, I have not run out of any resource or had to wait for resources in probably 6 weeks now. If there are changes - I will adapt.
     
    Vergs likes this.
  4. Kazobel

    Kazobel Guest

    When I registered here at no point was I told that was not how the declinable quests were intended to be used, it matters not a jot what the "intention" was when they were designed because if people aren't told that intent then the assumption is there is no rule being broken and as such no abuse. Bad forward planning by the developers is not the fault of the gamers that take advantage of something that currently is just as much a feature of the game as fighting or upgrading.

    The reason why people use this feature is simple, planning has nothing to do with it the problem is in some areas trade is useless for acquiring goods, in my own region the trade is flooded with Steel but getting your hands on planks or marble is nigh on impossible so I use the wholesaler which takes coins and supplies and I have no qualms whatsoever using the declinable quests over and over again to supply me those coins and supplies and as long as this feature (it's not abuse it is a feature) exists I will continue to take advantage of it. I'm of the opinion that anyone who isn't taking advantage of it while it is there on some silly moral ground needs their head examined.
     
    firerock, sandgreen and unicorn like this.
  5. unicorn

    unicorn Alchemist

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2015
    I agree with Kazobel 1000 % about this NOT being ABUSE or an EXPLOIT but a feature of the game as it is at this moment in time.

    I also agree that it is the trade office that is broken, there are a lot of goods that are not for sale in my area..Scrolls, Magic Dust, and the biggest problem is Elixir, where are we supposed to get these goods from, we haven't got enough room on our islands to make non boosted goods in the quantity's that we need so I say again where do we get them from ?

    You can't even rely on getting neighborly help coins to buy anything from the merchant as my neighbors keep vanishing ( I have about 15 missing atm ) as do a lot of other folks in the game apparently.

    Unicorn.
     
  6. NecroDee

    NecroDee Bard

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Not indended? Bollocks!
    If the quest has a "decline" option, and so does the next quest, and so on, then TO ME, it seems that it is working egg zactly as intended.
    You don't like/need the quest, you decline it, and keep declining until the quest you'd like to complete comes up again.
    What is wrong with this? Nothing, working as intended.
    And lets not pretend that the rewards are game breaking, they are measly, at least at my level.
    Do they help? Sure they do, but they by no means give you crazy advantages.

    What I find really funny is the newer players coming on the forums and crying "it's not fair, because I didn't know I could do this"
    Who's fault is it that they did not experiment with this?

    I was never told about repeatable quests, or as I call this feature "quest cycling"
    I found it out myself by trial and error, and shared said knowledge with my fellowship.
    Cycle through the quests to get the ones you want. Nothing wrong with that.
    Furthermore, half those quests are useless (for me anyways) because I never use 1 day productions, so all those quests can go down the drain, ie, skipped.

    If the developers dont agree, they can further nerf the rewards, or better yet, make the repeatable quests less predictable by randomizing their order.
    So you might get the same quest twice, thrice in a row, or you might cycle through 50 times without getting the one you're looking for.

    Lastly, if the devs are really gung ho on stopping this, they could always put a limit on how many times you can complete the same quest per day. Cap it at say 10 or 5, whichever they would feel is most balanced.

    Another thing they can do to alleviate carpel tunnel via mass clicking is to make the 25-26 repeatable quests ALL be available via a quest menu and call them "daily quests" or "dailies".
    You can only complete each one once per day, but you can choose them from a quest menu.

    Got many more ideas, but y'all get the jist of it.
     
    darkmic likes this.
  7. Kazobel

    Kazobel Guest

    You can bet your ass not one of the naysayers goes through all the declinable quests one by one and doesn't move on until they complete the current one, us "Abusers" aren't the only ones taking advantage of the "Decline" button
     
  8. NecroDee

    NecroDee Bard

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Indeed.
    If the devs didn't want the players to be able to decline the quests, why would they put the decline button there?
    Quest cycling there for a reason. And lets be honest, the rewards are NOT that amazing.
    To top it off, everyone can do it, so the naysayers really have no valid argument!
     
  9. Da Twista

    Da Twista Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    You're arguing a point that has been beaten to death already. Yes, there is a decline button, players are declining quests to get to their desired ones - we know, everyone knows - it is working like it should be. But this is not the concern that caused the proposed changes.

    Let me pick your brain for second - tell me something - how is it not beneficial to have infinite amount of coins and supplies? Do you honestly think the developers intended for players to gain an infinite amount of coins and supplies using the repeatable quest system? With an infinite amount of coins and supplies, players don't need to build workshops nor manufactories. A player can simply buy their non-boosted goods and trade for their boosted goods they cannot buy from the wholesaler.

    Because there are repeatable quests available that a player can do over and over and over and over again. The amount of coins and supplies depends on how many times they are willing to skip through 20 odd quests to get back to the exploitable ones.

    Think about it.
     
  10. NecroDee

    NecroDee Bard

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    "Infinite" in this case is subjective. Nay, it is just wrong.
    None of the RQs can be "instantly" completed, you still have to do something for the rewards, it is a quest after all.

    Calling this infinite is like saying that your Residences supply you with infinite coins because they are always producing coins.
    As for the benefits, it's already been said in this thread and others that due to the very poorly implemented trading system, RQs in a way help balance this issue.
    As you yourself have pointed out, even if you're going to cycle quests to get the ones you want, you need to click say 75+ times.
    I don't know about you, but there are only so many times I am willing to do that per day before I say, ok, enough.
     
  11. Da Twista

    Da Twista Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    And this is my point, you're against a proposed change to fix exploitable quests you don't even know of yet.

    Yes, infinite. Nearly 100k coins every 3 minutes is considered an exploit.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2015
  12. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Fix the trade system, then nerf the quests. Simple. Why are you guys going around in circle?
     
  13. Kazobel

    Kazobel Guest

    But it is not an exploit by the sheer facts that it exists, Inno know we are using it, none of us have been banned yet for it even though they have known for ages that it exists. Look here's the basics of human nature, if some quests are ridiculously hard to complete and some are ridiculously easy then which ones do you think people will chose to complete when they are given the choice to do so over and over again? What I find even funnier is that the ridiculously easy ones are not only ridiculously easy but also give the best rewards. the 24 hour ones only give a few K in coins and a moderate amount of supplies whereas the ones you can complete multiple times a day give 75k and 8k in supplies, now who is the genius that thought that would be a good idea and not only though it would be a good idea to give such high rewards but also gave a decline button so that they could be looped over and over again. Like how could they not see that coming?

    You can argue all you want that it is an exploit but people were doing this on the Beta version waaaayyyyy before the game was released to the general public and there was ample time to fix it before going live but it wasn't fixed so now, like it or not, it is a perfectly valid feature of the game. It's a dog eat dog internet so you can't expect people not to take advantage of every available opportunity just because some people think it is morally wrong to do so.

    I'm still trying to work out how people can say things like "It's not fair" when talking about what is essentially pixels on a screen, it's not like anything is getting stolen, no one will die because I loop quests, looping quests isn't furthering starvation in Africa or anything. "Exploitation" is such a big word to use for such a small irrelevant thing. I remember the days when "Exploitation" meant real things like forcing kids to work in sweat shops for 10 cent a day but now it means "Anyone who worked out how to take advantage of a feature of a game before I did". Nothing is being exploited, the feature exists and people are only taking advantage of it BECAUSE THE POWERS THAT BE CHOOSE TO MAKE IT AVAILABLE TO THEM.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2015
  14. NecroDee

    NecroDee Bard

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Not quite sure what you mean by quests I don't even know of yet.
    100k coins every 3 minutes? I think not, let's not be dramatic. 100k coins per hour, sure.
    It's like saying that visiting everyone in our explored neighbourhood is an exploit because you can make a couple of million gold in 15 mins or less every day. Should that be taken out of the game as well? Too funny!

    You're throwing around "exploit" like we're doing something illegal.

    The point is, it is part of the game, and really, the only thing that even remotely balances the uber broken neighbourhood trade system.


    In general, exploit is not a big bad word, just the context it's used it.
    "Look at NecroDee's heroic adventures and exploits"....see? Not such a bad word, hehe.
     
  15. PhorLaughs

    PhorLaughs Seeker

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Wow, everyone is so passionate on this subject. I have the quest "Grander Palace" to upgrade main hall at the moment. All I thought of it was, ' Hmm, ya. I should probably do that" when I saw it.

    Been speed reading the posts and I think someone said the beta had a 24 hour CD on RQs? That is some kind of crazy. I think I have only declined one quest, and it was something with Magic Dust and I had just gotten the building for it. Ha! Was thinking that it was going to take too much time. Did not see too many ideas on how to fix this that seems realistic. Ha, and who is to say that my idea is either. But maybe fix is not the right word since I did not think it was broken to begin with. Ah well, idea time!

    What if you had to pay for declining? What if you use KPs to decline the quest. There is a CD that people are already used to and it would limit how many times you could do it at one time. Also it would make you think about it more when you decline the quest. That is unless your at the end of the tech tree. But then you are still limited to 10 times. Have not seen it suggested, but let me know if I'm mistaken. But that is my two cents on the matter.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2015
  16. Zoli

    Zoli Dreamer

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    I am not sure why are you yelling here ? You can make your point without posting in all caps.

    Exploit or not, abuse or not call it however you want but fact is it was not intended that players will take big advantage of RQ. I believe CM said in one of the posts before this game was planned to play slowly so they have full right to change features if something is not going as planned.
    Instead of wasting your energy on trivial stuff and debating was it exploit or not it needs to change so better give constructive ideas.

    I apologize if someone already suggested this but I will give my 2 cents on how to make things more balanced. Maybe give double amount of RQ
    so players have more to pick from to earn cash and supplies but quest can be done once in 24 h. Players still need to be able to get good amount of cash and supplies cause many are using wholesaler.
    If income is very low and limited then market needs to be adjusted as well ( bigger range of players you can trade with or make FS have more members or some sort of allies between FS that would allow players more trades etc. )

    Someone also mentioned already, fixing RQ is not that big deal, and I kinda agree with that cause we daily discovering new players and provinces and have more towns to get gold at ( not talking about active neighbours that will visit you back cause they are rare but for example 4-5 new towns equals the amount of cash you get in RQ )
     
    darkmic and Da Twista like this.
  17. PhorLaughs

    PhorLaughs Seeker

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Oh, and it would be good business too. Another reason to buy and spend diamonds. LOL, then it would not be an exploit, it would be the player choosing to spend money or not. But that is hole nother can of worms.
     
  18. Da Twista

    Da Twista Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    Again, right over your head. You are not catching the point. Let me help you out just a little bit.

    You are aware that there is a quest that requires you to gain 100 population. This rewards you with 95k coins. You can put up 4 residences (You need one expansion area free). The 4 residences will take a minute to build then demolish them because you have gotten the 100 population. Complete the quest, gain 95k coins, skip through 20 odd quests and repeat. This process takes about 3 minutes.

    So no, I am not being dramatic. This is an exploit because you can gain an inordinate amount of cash in a very short time and it's unlimited. Unlike neighborly help where you are limited to a 23 hour timer. With coins, you can gain as much goods as you want, you can buy as much knowledge points as you want albeit KP prices raise each time one is bought.
     
    sandgreen and Zoli like this.
  19. NecroDee

    NecroDee Bard

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Hmmm...ok, well that is very "creative use of game mechanics" and truth be told, good on you for figuring that one out. That DID go over my head and I really didn't think outside the box with that quest, good call.

    But like I said in a previous post, I can't do all that clicking without going mad, lol. (granted, that's just me, doesn't stop others from doing so)

    However, that is one quest out of 25, so with this particular quest, I will agree with you 110%, this quest either needs to be taken out or changed.
     
    Da Twista likes this.
  20. Kazobel

    Kazobel Guest

    It is obviously going over your head too, it is NOT an exploit, it is people using the quests in the way they were designed to be used. The ONLY way that someone could not be accused of "exploiting" quests by your definition of what "exploiting" is would be to never decline one and go complete them all until that one you mention comes around again which begs the question why have declineable quests in the first place then? like is what you are saying is that people should voluntarily waste days doing all the crap quests just to get back to a good one again? (which makes the decline button moot then)

    If those quests are removed from the declineable quest most people won't bother doing quests anymore, I mean all the rest aren't worth the effort so it will just become an aspect of the game that was a waste of developers time to add. All the time and effort put into programming it into the game will have been nothing more than a waste of man hours because no one is going to waste their time doing 24 hour quests..FACT
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2015

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