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End of repeatable quests...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Recksters, Sep 1, 2015.

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Do you agree to limit the declineable quests as shown in the Beta server?

  1. Yes

    10 vote(s)
    17.9%
  2. No

    46 vote(s)
    82.1%
  1. TheRodent

    TheRodent Conjurer

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2015

    Some of the repeatable quests are, I wouldn't say too hard exactly, but they're certainly not worth the effort.

    Like Josiah pointed out above, there's a couple of these quests that take 24 hours, I have one that says "Make Luxury Armchairs" and another saying "Make X Amount of Scrolls" ... and they're 24 hour productions and only give an award of something like 2000 coins and a handful of supplies. In fact, they pay less supplies that getting the award won't even pay for an upgrade of a workshop.
    These particular missions are simply not worth it.

    The planks I make, are planks I need, and waiting 24 hours for some to cook just ties up my factories when I need those planks now, or at least in 3 hours from now.
    Sure a 24 hour production is useful if you're not going to be online, but having a quest that requires it, and pays nothing in return, is, well, worthless.

    If you remove the repeatable quests, or even make it that you can only decline one a day, it would simply mean for about 6 days I would not do any of them... I mean none... not one...
    I would just wait till tomorrow and then decline another, and again and again... and I would then struggle to get together the few bits and pieces I need in the meantime that I have been getting from the repeatable quests that are actually worth the little bit of effort over the space of a few hours.

    I'd rather wait and do production at a minimum of 3 hours in the factories, than tie up several factories for 24-48 hours while they're completing a quest that pays little to nothing.

    Repeatable quests that are doable and pay out when they are done, are fun. It's nice to have that in place when things are difficult. It's like a lifeline.
    This news about stopping them, or turning them into brick walls, makes them not-fun.
     
  2. TheRodent

    TheRodent Conjurer

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2015
    A suggestion I'd make on repeatable quests if the powers-that-be feel they need to change them... is change the list daily.

    Day one, you get say, 10 missions that you can repeat during that 24 hour period.
    Day two, you get a different 10.
    Day three, another different 10, or maybe a mix of the missions you had on days one and two.
    Day four a new set of 10.
    Day five, the same as day one.
    Day six, the same as day two.

    And so on.

    It'd balance things out... you might have a few rubbishy missions on day one, day two some better ones... etc.
     
  3. Thuriquesse

    Thuriquesse Guest

    Repeatable QUESTS should not have existed to begin with. Period end of story. It is an exploitable part of this game and it should have been eliminated a very long time ago in the Beta world. So now Elvenar in it's infinite wisdom has decided to make a Bold move and address that problem, and many players have adapted their playing style and city build to the EXPLOITABLE quest Income model.....Big mistake to base your city revenue on something that is not a sustainable business model.

    To successful manage a city one Must put everything into perspective. If you have built too many Ultra expensive Tier 3 buildings and your Workshops do not generate enough Supplies then you have a big problem. A well managed city is a good balance between all your infrastructure. Building High point buildings like the Tier 3 structures will cost very dearly....Especially setting it many times a day and Night....A huge strain on city coffers.

    Going for points results in huge deficits to your economies. Then you find your city in dire straits and the Repeatable quests filled the budget deficit's your city incurs. But sooner or later that gravy train ends and you must take Economic Responsibility and assess your own BUSINESS model. It is very tough. Budgeting sucks and I know it, But the Repeatable quests was treated like a unlimited Credit card of epic scope and sooner of later that must be stopped.

    Drop all quests

    Best decision Innogames can make. Then rework the quests with input from This forum and others. Then at some time in the future bring them back.

    So what now. SORRY. Is that what you want? Everyone must admit they knew this day would be coming and this game is still in development and maybe not to everyone's satisfaction and yes it can be very frustrating. A year from now and this game can be totally different.

    So bite the bullet, take a look at all your cities and do a simple budget.

    Expensive versus revenue business spreadsheet, listing all your expenses and all your revenue.

    Any extra funds gets budgeted into other expenses like troops and new provincial exploration. Just like real life you cannot buy all the toys and keep up with daily expenses. This game is no different, it is just set into a different format.

    You want a thriving well managed economic Powerhouse then you must Budget, plan and most importantly Manage with Fiscal Responsibility.

    Apologies if I stepped on anyone's toes just giving an opinion.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2015
    Da Twista, Katwijk, sandgreen and 2 others like this.
  4. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    An exploit? Please. It's to allow me play as much as I'd like to. Without RQs right now, I wouldn't be playing this game as much, maybe just once or twice per day. Why? Cuz I would be stuck all the time.

    Why? Cuz the trading system is very bad, we are surrounded by inactive players, we can never find the goods we need. Fix the trading system, allow us to find the goods we need, then you can do whatever you want with the RQs.

    *Edit* And just now, another good, well developed player that I have to deny his application to my fellowship, because he doesn't have the boost we need. I'm getting sick of this... Fix the trading system...
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
    Thuriquesse and TheRodent like this.
  5. Dreamer

    Dreamer Alchemist

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2015
    You wanted feedback on the quests - here is mine. Being able to work my way through the quests is really the only thing that has kept me in the game. If not for them I would have never had enough coin or supplies to upgrade my buildings or build new ones. If I can't decline the quests and am stuck with something I can't or don't want to do it slows the game down even more and for me it's already frustratingly slow. I have a quest up at the moment that I can't decline - Research Superior Armory - but I have 3 other researches before I do that one so it has to sit there until I complete the other 3 which all 53 KPs. If I couldn't rotate the other guy I'd not be able to use the quests at all and I'd have never had the coin to upgrade my main hall.

    Some of the quests aren't helpful, which is why I decline them - I have reached a point in the provinces that I can't proceed without thousands of gems or a bigger army, including a sorceress but that's 18 researches away - what point is there having a quest that asks me to gain 4 relics or complete a province when it isn't going to be possible for weeks. Some of the quests force us backwards in the game. I haven't had one but one of the other players in my fellowship who was on a rank of 325 when she got this quest and had floating citadels and mage towers was asked to have 5 holy codex. She couldn't decline it and the last thing she wanted to do was use space and resources building culture she was going to sell straight away. The quests should never make us go backwards!!

    I personally would like to see the repeatable quests stay as is. I think if you are going to put a limit on how many can be declined at least make it 10 or something. This will stop people gaining 20 million + a day from them but make it fair for honest, earnest players.
     
  6. Josiah

    Josiah Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2015
    Might be time for Inno Games to think about the daily log in bonus they offer in other games they have. Totally agree with a lot of the players concerns, but being retired, one thing that I learned during the time I was working, never depend on overtime to help make ends meet. Like real life, that dependency can get you in trouble, because if and when it runs out, the outcome is not always going to be a favorable experience. Not a sermon, just a thought.
     
  7. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Look at the reactions in the Beta:

    https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/discussion-changes-in-declining-quests.3278/page-8

    It's a resounding NO. And they will still go ahead with this. It's illogical, unless it's because it will bring them more revenues?

    Cuz yes, I think the ONLY reason they will go forward, even if it will be a feature that will lower even more the percentage of active players, is because they think it will bring them more money.

    How? Maybe they think players will have less space to grow and therefor will buy expansions faster?

    If they put this change in place, I will seriously reconsider if I continue to play this game.

    Who left the game because of the current RQs? If any?

    How many will slow their play or stop playing if they kill the RQs like in Beta?

    A lot more.
     
    Thuriquesse likes this.
  8. Thuriquesse

    Thuriquesse Guest

    I tend to agree. IF the trading system was working properly we could be doing much better and having much more fun. Look at the mailing structure, it is a hopeless train wreck. Utterly stupid way especially since Innogames has so much experience in making a great mailing system.

    It would have been better IF Innogames offered a fix prior to or at the same time to Our lack of revenue. A boost to the way revenue is calculated would have been a easy fix.

    IF Innogame said the following...

    We are removing the repeatable quests BUT we are going to recalculate the methods supplies and Coins are calculated....So we are penalized and rewarded at the same time.

    Innogames constantly tell us that our voices are heard...I say bladderdash...

    How many players have been giving suggestions since the beginning of this game?
    How many suggestions have been brought forth?
    How many have been implemented?

    It is very simple, we are the puppets and they are the Puppet masters pulling our strings and ordering us to do as they want, not as we wish. They make up their minds that something is Going to be done without First asking us...and if they ask us they only give us a few hours to reply before they do it anyway.

    Innogames Ram things down our throat no matter what we think.
    Innogames makes up their minds to do something and hardly ever take our concerns to heart.


    I compare Innogames to a Dictatorship.

    Will things change ....In a simple answer NO.

    Now my game is Ruined.

    One day Innogame will come to us with Suggestions prior to ramming them down our throats.
     
    unicorn and Recksters like this.
  9. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Very well expressed, Thuriquesse. I uterly agree.
     
    Thuriquesse and unicorn like this.
  10. Da Twista

    Da Twista Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    Wow, just wow...

    Players intend to get to end game in like 4 months, which is not the way it should be. I find some of these arguments hilarious at times and becoming a bit redundant at that. Thur's first post was spot on - very nicely said too. His second, well, I won't comment.

    I cannot understand why Reckstar who is currently ranked 12th in the world is complaining about not having goods because the traders is not working very well for him. His boosts are scrolls, steel and Elixirs and has approximately 11 steel, 6 scrolls and 6 elixir manufactories. How on earth are you not getting enough goods? Oh right, the trader doesn't work properly for you. Being in a full high ranked fellowship I honestly do not believe you have such a shortage of goods like you are making it out to be. Your argument would have been more believable if fellowships never existed and you had to rely on your inactive neighbors.

    But as I said, everyone wants to finish the game in 4 months or even less. And then complain they have nothing better to do, throw some threats they will leave the game etc... As a browser game, these types are designed to last well over a year with the introduction of new features filling the game as you progress through it. You don't have enough gems to complete a technology, give it a few hours, you will get some.

    Build an efficient city, adapt to the changes and you will not have any problems. I have changed fellowships twice, I'm now in my third one - I don't have any problems with goods. I don't need to finish quests to gain coins and supplies, I have more than enough residences, workshops and neighbors unlocked. In fact, if I never finish another quest in this game I will still progress comfortably and at a reasonable rate.
     
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  11. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Where did I write it was difficult for me to get goods?

    Geez. I hate when people put words in other people's mouth.

    If I did, I don't think I would be as developed, eh?

    My analysis is general, not centralized on my own way to play, but also from what I see from my fellows.

    Your comment is very passive-aggressive and not constructive.

    Why attack my playing?
     
    Thuriquesse and unicorn like this.
  12. Da Twista

    Da Twista Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    All your posts have mention of a weak trading system, difficult to get goods, using surplus coins and supplies to buy from the wholesaler. It is only natural to assume you are experiencing problems with goods since your posting suggests so. And you're using this argument (weak trader) to counteract against a proposed change on another feature.

    The bottom line is, there are known exploitable problems with the current repeatable quest system that needs to be sorted out. Exploitable problems known by a few minority of players that can affect the ranking system and other player's progress and gameplay very badly.

    If you're not experiencing problems with goods then why are you so adamant this change will be detrimental to the game? I would expect a high caliber player such as yourself to not have any issues with coins, supplies or goods. Your city looks good and sufficient to support your play style.

    This change once it is done will be more beneficial for the playerbase as whole than the disgruntled players it may cause in it's wake.

    Please don't see this as an attack against you - I'm trying to get a better understanding why you actually feel this way about the proposal. I'll admit, the trader can do with some more work, so can the neighbor system - which will probably come in time. But I don't see any problem with putting a cap on the decline button. The quests will still be available but at a far slower pace. And players can actually do the quests as they were originally intended.
    Perhaps we can see maybe a third quest line in the future that I recently saw suggested on the beta forums. Who knows?
     
    Dreamer likes this.
  13. Lane

    Lane Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    I'm with Kaz on this one! I don't find they help later in the game, enough to skip all of them just to get to one that may offer you 4k supplies and 10k gold. I get that by visiting my neighbors and fellowship members. To summarize, early in the game, great idea. Later in the game, just give me quests to do every once in a while to motivate me to keep reaching for higher technologies and buildings. The ones that ask you to upgrade so and so after already having several past that level are irrelevant, imho.

    - Lane
     
    Thuriquesse likes this.
  14. Thuriquesse

    Thuriquesse Guest

    When did we have a meaningful UPDATE that helped us beyond the fellowship which by the way should have been released when this game first started?

    The Developers release an update and it is to fix bugs they caused in a previous update.

    How many suggestions have they implemented?
     
  15. Thuriquesse

    Thuriquesse Guest

    I AGREE. But Fix the game flaws. Make it a little easier AND a fun game to play. Stop making the game progressively more harder just to gain a profit....Apologize for the double post.
     
    Lane likes this.
  16. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Da Twista of words. Indeed.

    You make me look like a complainer. How is that not an attack? Respect is not your forte it seems.

    The game's biggest consequence (using a cause and effect analysis here) of the game is VERY low activity by players. Easily only 1/10 are playing, and maybe even less. And of that minority that plays, how many play a lot? Much less.

    Will this change INCREASE the activity? No, on the contrary, it will lower it even more. Proof: Many players are upset in Beta, and some are quitting.

    There are many reasons why the activity level is low in this game, and the main one, is to be stuck. And in a city builder game, it quickly kills your will to play, I'm sure. It's not a treat, it's simply a risk of what might happen.

    Why on earth did they build such a bad trading system when they have other games that have better ones?

    p.-s. If RQs were such a problem, they would have killed them in FoE as well.
     
    quicksilver likes this.
  17. Da Twista

    Da Twista Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    I'm not twisting your words, you're doing that on your own. You were first going on about the trader, I commented and now you've replied with inactivity issues. I do not have access to the statistics of this game, and I cannot make a reasonable assumption without data. From what I can gather observing a lot of my neighbors, majority have not completed the tutorial yet. You cannot get 'stuck' on the tutorial. They probably left because they did not find the game appealing at first glance.

    But as for your question. You cannot copy/paste one game to another system, change the graphics, change some mechanics, give it a new name and expect it to work. A lot of the features have to be built from scratch and a lot of the time, these features are released into the game over a number of updates. This to accommodate improvements, problems, tweaking ...

    - New language servers, so players wanting to play in their native language could.
    - Guilds were one of the most suggested ideas, we got fellowships which is essentially the same thing. This also enhanced the trading system considerably players were complaining about.
    - Hot keys which were suggested on the beta forum.
    - Chat system (Not sure if this was requested specifically from the public but we got this along with fellowships).

    There were other small miscellaneous changes and features added among the updates players requested. The last two updates were mainly bugfixes and preparation updates for things to come.

    You can have a look at the announcements. They are linked to all the release notes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
  18. Amy Steele

    Amy Steele
    Ex-Team Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Wow! Thanks for all the amazing feedback folks! Please keep it coming :)

    To summarize again - the reasons why you need the high yield repeatable quest rewards seems to be tied in with goods production, which itself is tied in with problems obtaining the goods you need other than via the wholesaler:

    A small aside here... firerock - so that this doesn't get lost in this thread, please feel free to propose this in our Ideas section (I don't think anything similar has already been proposed)

    Another reason players rely on the quest rewards is in order to be able to afford upgrades and new buildings:

    One reason you like the repeatable quests so much is that they are (mostly) quick and fun to do when you're stuck on a non-declinable quest:


    As far as declining the repeatable quests goes, the main reason would seem to be that the reward is simply not worth the cost of completing the quests:


    As mentioned previously, another would be that they are sometimes not appropriate for the level of development of your city:
    (this is also tied in somewhat with the point above regarding the repeatables being fun and quick to do - when they are no longer quick, but instead would take many days or even weeks, or even make you set your progress back, then they are no longer fun)

    It would be really helpful for us, Dreamer, if you could list for us the quests you regularly decline because they are 'not helpful'. A list, or table similar to Recksters' in the linked screenie in this post would be awesome if you can manage it. The more specific feedback we can get on the difficulties you have with these quests, the better.

    Finally (for now ;) ) I would like to borrow 3 players' words to sound a note of caution on this.

    It is indeed true that Elvenar is a game that is meant to be played slowly, over many months, and is a city builder game, which also includes balancing supply and demand. We are dedicated to finding the correct balance for these repeatable quests in order that the game may be played as it was always intended to be played, and want to thank you all for your feedback so far. Please do keep it coming, but please make all feedback as specific as possible. Especially we would like to hear why you decline repeatable quests and which ones it is that you decline.
     
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  19. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Keyword is "played" I believe? And not stuck. It won't be fun to come into the game and see that still, we can't build/upgrade something.

    I really think this idea is hurtful to the game and is overblown by some comments, suggestions, by a very small minority that doesn't like them.

    Most players don't help their neighbors cuz it takes too much time. Do you really think 1,000s of players are doing RQs like "some" of us do?

    Might as well remove all the other "exploits" some of us use to build quickly, like

    - building lvl 1 residences to quickly get population to put down a building or do an upgrade
    - allowing us to disconnect residences from roads, and still get the population
    - purchasing of diamonds, so we can buy expansions and premium buildings
    - etc...

    ;-)

    Other points that proves that some use RQs a lot mainly for goods:

    - If I didn't need to buy goods from the wholesaler, I wouldn't do RQs as much, just a bit. 25 RQs, compared to much less in FoE, is a good way to balance them. It's all about what you need to do for what you are looking to get.

    - And I would only do the coins ones if all I would use the RQs for was for more KPs, but after a while, they get very expansive, so it balances itself out.

    - And when I will be done the tech tree, KPs will become useless, RQs as well.

    The problem is not the RQs, the problem is why we need them.
     
    Thuriquesse likes this.
  20. Thuriquesse

    Thuriquesse Guest


    Well said. I agree with the balancing but if INNOGAMES take things away it must be balanced so we also benefit.

    Innogames took away a HUGE source of income and never replaced it so I totally disagree with AMY STEELE'S comment about balancing. A good balance is giving us something to increase our fun and thus our revenue. AND guess what they did not.

    Here is a summary of their balancing...

    1) Reduced our culture and made it harder to get more....Balanced in who's favor, not ours
    2) Reduced our income of supplies and coins when they reduced the Culture. I saw a huge decrease in income. Started the repeatable quests at that time....Balanced in INNOGAMES Favor totally.
    3) Fighting was made harder. Up until a update I was having a ton of fun fighting in the map discovering new provinces. But all of a sudden I went from enjoying myself to utterly losing almost every fight. That is when I gave up fighting....Balanced...NOT...

    I Apologize to AMY STEELE but this game does NOT listen to us if you had then you would implement good changes to this game and not ruin this game like others games that have shut down.

    1) Rising Generals
    2) Lagoonia
    3) Kartuga

    All the above games HAD great potential to become a good games. Many players gave Innogames Moderators a Ton of suggestions and guess what all wasted effort. Innogames has a huge history of not listening to us though they pretend to do so. Please stop saying you want more input and then do as you want anyway and ignore ALL your customers wishes.

    We totally know what we want. We do not need to be lectured to and telling us how to play our game, Some want a slow paced game but most serious gamers are very bored with a very slow game. You guys have repeatedly attempted to slow this game down with very bad effects. Many players are ready to quit because of your attempts to freeze our game play.

    PLEASE stop ruining this game..We want a meaningful Update, The fellowship was not a meaningful update as this game should have been released with that feature like all your other games..

    I am ready to quit because it will be weeks before you give us anything. I will never give you anymore of my money because I have wasted enough of my money as it is. I am quite frankly tired of waiting for your programmers to do something. It has become very obvious this game should have been delayed a long time ago due to such a vast number of bugs and flawed execution.

    Fellowships should have been at the very start of this game....
    Chat system should have been released when this game was...
    Language system REALLY...innogames does it anyway

    I totally disagree with you. All the above items, Innogames does anyway in their other products. Nothing new here and pathetic to say Innogames is listening to us when it is very obvious they do not.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2015
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