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End of repeatable quests...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Recksters, Sep 1, 2015.

?

Do you agree to limit the declineable quests as shown in the Beta server?

  1. Yes

    10 vote(s)
    17.9%
  2. No

    46 vote(s)
    82.1%
  1. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
  2. Prendyo

    Prendyo Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Well its not ending today on EN1 as far as I know. Thats the point of Beta, to test new game features and changes.
    However, we all knew this was coming...and not just because the Great Prophet Da Twista prophesied so ;)..it is an obvious change really.

    lets just make hay whilst the sun shines an fill those coffers one last time! :p
     
    Da Twista and Josiah like this.
  3. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Already advanced players are quitting the game, look at mastering's pictures in the beta thread.

    It's coming to 0.24.

    I mean, they think it's overrated? Just nerf the rewards when you do it more than once per day. Don't change completely how people play and built their city.

    It's common that a game will adjust things, to balance it, but this idea will kill the game for many. Is that REALLY the reason they need to increase the activity level of the game? Why touch this. Most find repeatable quests annoying. Just like in Forge of Empires, some build their city around the repeatable quests we want to do, to be able to do as many as possible per day. Not many do, but some.

    An option, to nerf it, would be either to lower the rewards permanently, or each time you complete a quest, if you do it again in the same day, you get 10% less rewards each time.
     
    Halbes likes this.
  4. Vergs

    Vergs Spellcaster

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Good job Elvenar Team! And that's not sarcasm.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2015
  5. Da Twista

    Da Twista Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    This will only happen on the EN server if the proposed changes don't change by the time it reaches us with the next update. Beta got it today for testing purposes, and with that, it will most likely change again before we get it judging by the feedback from the disgruntled players.

    I tend to agree with a lot of the arguments I read on the beta forum. Some of the quests are really stupid and should be removed or replaced with others. Perhaps they are useful to the lower level players but upgrading a residence to level 6 and those type won't help me out since I don't plan on building more residences soon.

    But I am happy there will be a change coming, I'm all for the re-balancing. And as it is now, the repeatable quest system is not a healthy component for the game. If a player cannot run their city efficiently without the use of quests, they should re-evaluate how they've built it.
     
  6. TheRodent

    TheRodent Conjurer

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2015
    Repeatable quests are one of only two reasons I've been able to actually get any progress.
    The other is fellowship.

    Without the repeatable quests, my progress will be cut down by about 90%.

    If they change it, I'll see what other system they put in place, but if it turns out to not be any good, I'll be gone.

    Sooooo glad I held back from spending real cash now. I was tempted a couple times to buy diamonds... Inno may have done themselves out of a paying customer with this news.
     
    Dreamer likes this.
  7. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    IMHO, RQs are useful for one MAIN reason: The very weak trading system!

    If we could get the goods we need without using the wholesaler, we wouldn't need the RQs as much.

    - Allow us to have friends to trade with
    - Drastically increase the range we can see trades
    - Use a system of trade tax based on range, instead of 50%, make it from 10 to 70%, based on range.

    Fix the weak trading system, then you can nerf the RQs.
     
    The Tyroll, Zoli, quicksilver and 2 others like this.
  8. Prendyo

    Prendyo Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    You make some very good points about the trading system Recksters. When I compare the trading system here with other games, including other games in the Inno portfolio, it does seem very limited and 'embryonic'. I am confident that this will change and improve over time, but I think you are right that some of those changes should be put in place either before or at the same time as nerfing the repeatable quests. That would at least address some of the issues raised by those who want the quest system to remain unchanged.
     
    Recksters likes this.
  9. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    In some games you use caravans/trucks to trade between players, and the farther away they are, the longer it takes to get your resources. And you can improve your caravans, have more, make them faster, etc... But at least, it's possible to find what you need.

    In this game, you RARELY find what you need. So, RQs are useful when you overflow in coins and supplies, to get goods you don't produce.

    Instead of allowing us to build a team with players that fits our fellowship style, we have to make ridiculous decisions based on what goods a player is producing first. I'd rather choose players that fits the team, that makes the team more fun.

    Fix the trading system, then fix/nerf the RQs.
     
    The Tyroll likes this.
  10. unicorn

    unicorn Alchemist

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2015
    Not a great deal to be said about this update, except to say if it goes live as it is then it is bye bye Elvanar :(

    The damage to the trust of players might also see the game slowly die, as I and a great many others will not buy Diamonds ever again, so no income no game.

    What a sad state of affairs as I really liked this game.
     
    Dreamer likes this.
  11. Amy Steele

    Amy Steele
    Ex-Team Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Dear all,

    Thank you for your feedback so far! Please keep it coming :) we need to know which of these quests are difficult for you and why. We very much want to improve Elvenar, but we need your feedback to be able to do this, as only you can tell us your specific experiences of these quests. For now I will address some of the points raised already:

    This is very true. 0.24 does not come to International until next week, so we cannot say until then what further changes may be made in the repeatable quest system as a result of the awesome feedback from players there.

    This is an interesting suggestion and I will most certainly see that it is forwarded for consideration. Please do keep these suggestions coming. We are also seeking feedback, as I said above on which of the repeatable quests you regularly skip, and most importantly, why. As Da Twista and TheRodent's quotes below, please be as specific as possible, so that we can better address the issues you raise.

    I'm guessing then, that for you, as with Recksters below, the repeatable quests mean access to goods, either directly as a quest reward, or indirectly by using the coin or supply gained at the Wholesaler? It would be most helpful if you could let us know if that is indeed the case :)

    Thanks for raising this point Recksters, it is an indication of why players are relying so much on the rewards from the repeatable quests. This may in turn help us to further improve other areas of the game.

    I will continue to respond to points raised in this thread and will forward your views. Please keep the feedback coming, please make it as specific as possible, as this will help us to help you, and please do let me know if I fail to address any specific points raised :)
     
    The Tyroll and Recksters like this.
  12. zgimli

    zgimli Dreamer

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2015
    Change is needed, but 1 decline a day is rather too severe.

    I expected each quest to be made available once a day, you either do it or decline, next day the quest reappears.
    Quests should only give minor benefits, not be anyone main source of items. Some quests however reduce income, as the 1 day production option that they require gives less goods than using the 3 hour option three times

    Fellowship trading works well, there is no need for quests to give many goods.
     
  13. TheRodent

    TheRodent Conjurer

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2015
    The repeatable quests are handy for gaining things that are almost impossible. I use the gold awards to buy things I need, either upgrades or extra stuff from the wholesaler.
    Another thing is to buy goods from a wholesaler, then swap for, say, Scrolls. I make scrolls, but sometimes find myself short of the amount I need and I can't buy them in the wholesaler as they're my boosted good, so it becomes a bit easier to get the scrolls I need for either an upgrade or a province negotiation.

    Changing the repeatable quests and removing this outlet for gaining a few bits and pieces that are important... which will mean having to wait anything up to 24 or 48 hours, for something you might need within the next couple hours, maybe even minutes in some cases, will just turn Elvenar into a system of brick walls, and it won't be fun to play anymore.
     
  14. Josiah

    Josiah Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2015
    The quest that I skip every time are the ones that require you to produce one good that is in the 9 hour to one day range, ( I am actually doing one now, produce 3 Alchemy kits, 9 hours for 1 kit). Think there is one dealing with planks also, those are on the 1 day time frame. Plus, in my opinion the rewards for each of those quests are not worth the trouble.
     
    Halbes likes this.
  15. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Thank you Amy for your long reply. It means a lot.

    You want specific? Let me be blunt. If I didn't spend money in the game, if this extreme change occurs in the game, I would have surely stopped playing as much as I do right now. But one thing is certain, I will not spend any more money if I do not enjoy the game as much as I do right now.

    When I see such low activity around our neighborhood, with only 1/10 of the players active, I believe you should be focusing on changes that will increase the activity, not changes that will lower it even more.

    Another specific: Recently, I had to say no to two very active players, only cuz they had two boosts we have an overflow of. Why? Cuz of the weak trading system.

    RQs, at first, help save you space, to build less workshops, which gives you more space, which slows down the acquisition of expansions, which might slows down purchasing of diamonds? ;-)

    Then they become useful to buy Knowledge Points, to speed up your tech development.

    Then, they become mainly useful to get goods you need, cuz of the weak trading system.

    I highly recommend you do not go forward with this change before you fix the trading system.
     
    unicorn likes this.
  16. Amy Steele

    Amy Steele
    Ex-Team Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Thanks again folks!

    To sum up so far...

    The high reward/easy to do repeating quests are necessary because:
    The weak trading system (lack of trading partners?) means that goods (or coin or supply to buy them) are needed as rewards. Doing these repeatable quests enables Fellowships to take in players who will fit into the Fellowship, rather than having to take in a player simply because they have the "right" boost.

    Quests get skipped because:
    Some quests make no sense at the level the player is at. For example: For higher level players setting a 24 hour goods production for a quest yields less Goods (even including the quest reward Goods) than setting 1 9 hour and 3-5 3 hour productions.

    Removing the ability to skip more than 1 quest per day:
    Leads some players to feel they are constantly hitting a brick wall, having to wait for some days for something that they need rather sooner than that in order to make sufficient progress in the game so that it is still fun to play.


    Did I miss anything so far? Does anyone have any other specific examples of quests that they either skip because they are too hard/not rewarding enough for the level they are at? Or conversely can you supply some more specific examples of why you do the 'easy' repeating quests for coin/supply/goods other than to gain goods? For example, what do you use the resources for? For negotiating, because at the stage you are at, the fights are too hard? For unlocking research, or for something else?

    Please do keep the feedback coming on this one folks, and please make it as specific as possible - letting us know the specific quest task and reward (quest 'title' too if you know it) plus the reason why you would either skip this quest or want to do only this quest would be really helpful.
     
    Recksters likes this.
  17. Recksters

    Recksters Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Yes, but it's a weak compensation and not everyone in a fellowship is willing to click 3,000 times per day like some of us (like myself) is willing to handle.

    With a better trading system, we would be able to choose players better.

    It's a matter of how much coins/supplies per day.

    Here's my review and usefulness of each RQ:

    http://prntscr.com/8buncu

    Great ones are those I do more than once per day. Good ones are useful when specific actions occur, but they do not occur every day. Ok ones are just ok, but better ones are available so I skip them. Bad ones are a waste of time.

    Yes, it's annoying to be stuck, especially when you buy diamonds and you get more than 2 builders, it's annoying to see your investment go to waste and you cannot keep them busy.

    Some don't like to fight, and use a lot of goods, which heavily impacts the game. But that's ok, why make the trading system so difficult?

    RQs should be a nice bonus, not a way to play, but it is a way to play cuz it's very difficult to get goods.

    It's a simple cause and effect analysis. There's usually ONE thing you need to change, to remove all impacts and consequences. And in this case, it's the trading system.
     
  18. Amy Steele

    Amy Steele
    Ex-Team Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Many thanks for the analysis Recksters :)

    How about it folks - what is your view on these quests? Do you agree with Recksters' analysis, or do you find different repeatable quests useful/too hard? Is the trading system the underlying issue here, or is it something else? Please do share your views :)
     
  19. firerock

    firerock Enchanter

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2015
    Yes the trading system does need a bit of a tweak.
    From an early point in our fellowship it was clear we were going to be short of elixir, as only about 4 or 5 of us at the tier 3 level, we all produce dust and gems, we have NO-ONE to trade elixir with, there is one person in my catchment that does occasionally put up elixir trades, but 50% fee is too steep for tier 3 goods.

    I too now have to look for the high gold quests so I can get some elixir by the wholesaler
    You could have a tech tree for the trader that does two things, a tech upgrade to let you see further out, and another to reduce the trading fee for players you haven't got to yet.

    So you can say start of 10 hexes out as range
    upgrade to 15 then 20 then 25 then 30
    fees start at 50% then can be researched down to 40, 30, 20, 15.

    this will make it a bit more interesting, extend the range of the trader when you need it and make it cheaper esp for tier 3 goods.

    although you may want to help players located on the sides of the map (which I think is a hex of 99 towns on each side of the six sides)
     
    Dreamer likes this.
  20. Kazobel

    Kazobel Guest

    Personally I wouldn't be sad to see the end of the repeatable quests, I find them to be an irritation to be honest
     
    Thuriquesse and Da Twista like this.

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