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Elvenar...You´ve got a real problem with Scrolls....

DunkelSaturn

Conjurer
When you see this kind of trade offers, like, Scrolls are so so devalued, people just offers the same amount of scrolls per the same amount of 1st tier goods, or worse, a biggest amount of scrolls per a diminished amount of 1st tier goods, scroll is considered trash to throw away.
scroll HS1.png
Scroll HS 2.png

Scroll H3.png


Elvenar you gotta fix this problem, this game is not enjoyable at all for players that are boosted in Scrolls.
 

SkyRider99

Conjurer
The problem listed by @DunkelSaturn also diverts a lot of T1 goods that people may like to trade with other fair T1 trades.
Perhaps if we could 'disenchant' scrolls into relics or spells from the MA? Just a thought.
I may end up selling one of my scrolls manufactories, but that's unclear at this point.
 

Hekata

Shaman
It occurs to be that we are about to have an imbalance with marble too, maybe not quite as sever as scrolls but still as a marble boosted player it worries me a bit. The part of the set that all players will get is the one producing marble. Most will get the one producing planks. Those who choose the wrong beacons or are just unlucky will not get the part that produce steel and on the other side those who get lucky (or spend some diamonds) will get another part that makes marble. Plus we get a little less steel from the set anyway. So I predict that steel is going to be the most sought out T1 and marble the problematic one. Inno should really avoid to give any buildings that give the same good to everyone, it can only make problems.
 

Herodite

Senior Forum Moderator
Elvenar Team
Hi Guys! In the recent Live Q&A with Bernard and Lukas this was touched on very briefly, and they have confirmed that they are aware of this. So there maybe something they're looking to do to hopefully balance this out? Fingers crossed because we're very much aware of the Scroll Disparity across all worlds :)
 

Pauly7

Magus
Hi Guys! In the recent Live Q&A with Bernard and Lukas this was touched on very briefly, and they have confirmed that they are aware of this. So there maybe something they're looking to do to hopefully balance this out? Fingers crossed because we're very much aware of the Scroll Disparity across all worlds :)
I hope you're right, but they've said exactly the same thing a year ago and a year before that. In fact, it was more positive last time because they said they had some great new Spire idea to solve the problem, which was supposed to be on the way. We all assumed they were bringing out a new set which would be good enough to oust the Library Set, or otherwise maybe they would be changing how the production worked from the original set, but no... They just stopped people from winning more libraries... Which didn't help at all. And in fact made it worse.
 

Pauly7

Magus
It occurs to be that we are about to have an imbalance with marble too, maybe not quite as sever as scrolls but still as a marble boosted player it worries me a bit. The part of the set that all players will get is the one producing marble. Most will get the one producing planks. Those who choose the wrong beacons or are just unlucky will not get the part that produce steel and on the other side those who get lucky (or spend some diamonds) will get another part that makes marble. Plus we get a little less steel from the set anyway. So I predict that steel is going to be the most sought out T1 and marble the problematic one. Inno should really avoid to give any buildings that give the same good to everyone, it can only make problems.
It could be significant. The way it looks I imagine that well under half of active players will complete the whole set. However, almost everyone will win the first two buildings, meaning they get the marble and the set bonus. There will also be another group of people who win the second marble building, but don't get duplicates of the other two.

That being said, hopefully it won't be nearly as bad of a problem that the Spire set creates for scrolls, tree gum, or even bismuth.
 

Wibbly Woo

Spellcaster
In a horrible way, if the new set does disrupt T1 production, it may actually help the scrolls situation. A marble or planks surplus is equivalent to a steel shortage, and 66% of the steel boosts are also going to be scrolls boosted.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
I hope you're right, but they've said exactly the same thing a year ago and a year before that. In fact, it was more positive last time because they said they had some great new Spire idea to solve the problem, which was supposed to be on the way. We all assumed they were bringing out a new set which would be good enough to oust the Library Set, or otherwise maybe they would be changing how the production worked from the original set, but no... They just stopped people from winning more libraries... Which didn't help at all. And in fact made it worse.
About a year, not the year before that as it did not exist at that time.

But yeah so far it are a lot of empty words that have no merit.
 

Wowwie

Bard
we'll get rid of the dead cities most of them were silk players replace them with new silk players or rotate
I can count 25 player of silk that are non existent,on my world map
 

Hekata

Shaman
It could be significant. The way it looks I imagine that well under half of active players will complete the whole set. However, almost everyone will win the first two buildings, meaning they get the marble and the set bonus. There will also be another group of people who win the second marble building, but don't get duplicates of the other two.

That being said, hopefully it won't be nearly as bad of a problem that the Spire set creates for scrolls, tree gum, or even bismuth.
Probably not quite as bad as with scrolls because every player who did the Spire even a little bit had the chance to win multiple Libraries over time and this is a one time thing (I hope). But in general I don't understand why Inno gave up on the boosted+1 (or+2) formula that woks well for everyone and broke the trader balance just so they can have the names/aesthetics of the buildings match their production.
 

Hekata

Shaman
Hi Guys! In the recent Live Q&A with Bernard and Lukas this was touched on very briefly, and they have confirmed that they are aware of this. So there maybe something they're looking to do to hopefully balance this out? Fingers crossed because we're very much aware of the Scroll Disparity across all worlds :)
I appreciate your effort to check what's new on this topic but the devs said the same thing a long time ago (IIRC it was reported on Beta) and still nothing has been done. There is only one good solution to this problem and it's simply to change the production to boosted +1 or +2 of all library parts. Now, I'm no coder, but I doubt that's more than 1 day of work and since it hasn't been done so far I recon it means they are really not that keen to fix the problem :)
 

Pauly7

Magus
But in general I don't understand why Inno gave up on the boosted+1 (or+2) formula that woks well for everyone and broke the trader balance just so they can have the names/aesthetics of the buildings match their production.
Honestly I don't think they have the capacity to think these things through in advance enough. I don't think that they have any developers that actually have a clear understanding of what it's like to play their own game. They've proven that time and again. As you say, they wanted the productions from the buildings to fit the descriptions and they released one of each type. They just didn't look forward to the effect that might have, as you did.
 

Hekata

Shaman
Honestly I don't think they have the capacity to think these things through in advance enough. I don't think that they have any developers that actually have a clear understanding of what it's like to play their own game. They've proven that time and again. As you say, they wanted the productions from the buildings to fit the descriptions and they released one of each type. They just didn't look forward to the effect that might have, as you did.
If that's the case then it's just sad, especially since it could be easily solved: they'd just need a few very advanced and experienced players as consults (I'm sure they'd do it for free). Or even simpler: release things 1 months earlier on beta, listen to what the beta players actually say and then they'd have time to change it before it hits live.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
I appreciate your effort to check what's new on this topic but the devs said the same thing a long time ago (IIRC it was reported on Beta) and still nothing has been done. There is only one good solution to this problem and it's simply to change the production to boosted +1 or +2 of all library parts. Now, I'm no coder, but I doubt that's more than 1 day of work and since it hasn't been done so far I recon it means they are really not that keen to fix the problem :)
It's literally seconds of work, in the past people commented on fixed productions on beta and they changed it to bonus +x the next day more than once.

For some oddball reason, they keep refusing it with hand and fist and refuse to fix the issue, an issue some of us pointed out on the day of the release.
I really really really do not understand why they kept this ticking timebomb all this time and why they refuse to fix it.
 
I can agree with the statement on the new event building creating disparity. I’m steel boosted, so losing out on the steel generation part won’t affect me too much, I am however none too keen on overflows. ( I highly doubt I’ll even touch the steel part of the pilgrims set).
Scrolls are not my boosted (I got crystal, yay), and even with a library set, I still try to take scrolls when I can. (Loo paper shortages happen).
So yeah, we will see a glut of stone, maybe, and wood, perhaps, however those tend to get burnt through faster than scrolls I think.
If there’s a disparity and people are flooded with stone/ wood, I’ll probably be able to handle that in the same way I handle scrolls, buy em up so the peeps around me have resources to play with, and then put them up for a loss because that’s the only way to get rid of them.
 

Pauly7

Magus
For some oddball reason, they keep refusing it with hand and fist and refuse to fix the issue, an issue some of us pointed out on the day of the release.
I really really really do not understand why they kept this ticking timebomb all this time and why they refuse to fix it.
In my experience when something like this makes absolutely no sense, the answer ends up being something to do with money. If they've realised that the scrolls imbalance somehow leads to people spending more then they won't change it. Ever.
 

zgniniarT

Novice
Seems like Inno values roleplaying or logic/consistency of the building/lore or whatever you wanna call it more than having a balanced game.
Let's call it what it is: a huge flaw of game design.
As long as a company refuses to fix a long known and even foreseeable issue like this, at least i won't purchase anything anymore.
And i bet my butt that there are a lot more customers thinking this way.

As with all building that are not Manufactories, that give Goods as additional boosts, examples are Travelling Merchants, many Event buildings: Valentines Float, Gingerbread Mansion, Mermaids Paradise etc: These are introduced into the game to deliberately add more of the Good types in to the game. The Moonstone Library set is no different, bringing many desired daily collections forward, hence some players have preferred to collect and place multiple's of the building. For many players the Endless Scroll has been a boon, rather than an unwanted item. So please bear in mind that as with everything, there are always three sides to the coin.
And could you please bear in mind, that noone ever complained about implementing that set in general?
We talk about the fact that no other sets (or the suggested +X method) are given so the disadvantage of scroll/tree gum producers disappears.
Is it really the task of your customers to even out a worldwide imbalance created by short-sighted game mechanics?
Is that what you are saying?

We win multiple sets as a side effect of going far in the Spire and then we shouldn't place them? Now the players getting blamed for this?
Are you serious?

And yes, the set provides other desired collections (btw one more reason to want multiple sets to be placed).
But this happens at the cost of a huge number of players. My scrolls boosted S&D city for example is already FS-hopping, because my trades aren't taken. And guess what, while the top notch fellowships are still able to handle this due to experienced Archmage's recruiting, the mid ranged fellowships are already suffering hard.


Make it boosted goods +X or implement 2 comparable Sets. It's not that hard.
But even then it will take a long time until the already done damage is healed. I am sitting on millions of excess scrolls in both cities (my bigger city doesn't even manufacture them) and a lot of my fellows have the same problem.
The pictures shown in the initial post can be seen everywhere.

It's time to shine, Inno.
 
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Gargon667

Mentor
It occurs to be that we are about to have an imbalance with marble too, maybe not quite as sever as scrolls but still as a marble boosted player it worries me a bit. The part of the set that all players will get is the one producing marble. Most will get the one producing planks. Those who choose the wrong beacons or are just unlucky will not get the part that produce steel and on the other side those who get lucky (or spend some diamonds) will get another part that makes marble. Plus we get a little less steel from the set anyway. So I predict that steel is going to be the most sought out T1 and marble the problematic one. Inno should really avoid to give any buildings that give the same good to everyone, it can only make problems.
I don´t think it will be a big problem, most likely so small it won´t be noticable. For 2 reasons:
The total number of sets is much smaller than the Spire set, because only money spending will get you more than one set.
Most people will not have an imbalance at all, only special cases will get an uneven number of buildings.

So we´ll have very few towns with only 1 imbalanced set, instead of everybody having multiple imbalance causing sets.
The imbalance will be so small that it can easily be countered by some people placing fewer factories of the overproduced tier.
That doesn´t work with Scrolls (Our entire FS together has only between 5 and 10 scroll factories, yet we´re still selling Scrolls at dumping prizes)