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Elven Sorceress unit in Tournaments

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DeletedUser4003

Guest
So i have a big issue, when i started to play this game.... there was not enough information provided when i got offered to choose a race between humans and elves.

I picked elves but later playing this game i understood that i love tournaments. Then i found out that default mage unit for elves are completely useless. By that time i already had invested huge amount of time in my city, so start over wasn't really an option.

I understand option to have a mercenary camp, you have more options in terms of units for world map, but it dont add up with ''using troops on tournaments only'' strategy. Thats crazy that if you want to be a good elven tourney fighter, you are force to have not just only 1 building more to play same strategy, but to level one more wonder too.

So my first question would be, why are we even having elven sorceress in game ? And i don't want to hear ''fight manually'' because the amounts i do time to time in tournaments are exceeding 20 provinces per day, that's 80 encounters per day, none has the time to fight manually 80 tournament encounters per day.

My second question is, do inno is thinking about to do something with sorceress ? This unit could really use a rework and im sure a lot of tourney players would love if you would do something about it. Please add it to your rework bucket list, so elves get decent mage unit as default :)

Don't get me wrong, mercenary camp is fine for world map fighters as optional building, but sorceress is something ridiculous and unusable for players who fight large amount of provinces in tourneys daily. Inno, elves really needs you.

Third and last question, are you considering to offer an option to change race? (as a premium option).
 
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DeletedUser6260

Guest
If you're doing that many provinces in a day I would assume you are at a point where you know to deal with the counters. At that rate it would be very much in your interest to manually fight if able regardless of troop type, unless you have many armories to compensate for troop loss.

But that's just my take. I don't do tournaments for rank, I just do them until they stop being useful.
 

DeletedUser1829

Guest
Don't forget that elves have golems which are generally better than the human mortar unit. It evens out, neither unit is useless, not to mention sorceress can win you fights other units can't.

I find the extra military buildings let you do more in tournaments as you can better match the right unit to the right fight.
 

DeletedUser4003

Guest
Don't forget that elves have golems which are generally better than the human mortar unit. It evens out, neither unit is useless, not to mention sorceress can win you fights other units can't.

I find the extra military buildings let you do more in tournaments as you can better match the right unit to the right fight.

I don't need beginner tips, i know more about this game than you can imagine. :)

Problem is that every single counter unit like archers out-ranges sorceress not to mention hellhounds strike back is same as sorceress range LOL ?

Difference between using 5 squads of sorceress & 5 squads of blossom mages / human mages = LOSS (loose all 5 squads) vs WIN (loose 1.5-2.5 squads)

None of the mage units takes so much damage as sorceress, sorceress is completely useless at tourneys, that's a FACT.

And like i said, i don't do manual fights because my usual tournament score when i try is over 4k points, 1 province all 6 rounds is 270 points, 1 province has 4 encounters, you can do the rest of the math .....so if you want to suggest me to fight manually, then tell me please where should i get time for that too. :)


Not to mention the fact that Mortars are actually usable vs trash sorceress.

+ you don't need 3rd military production building & flying academy, cause you can get orc strategists from training grounds, right ....an if we will talk about manual fights then lets remember that we have terrain too so humans will want some orc strategists too in a lot of cases ....but then again... no need for mercenary camp + flying academy...... and this is my point. i hate sorceress because as tourney player they are forcing me to have 2 extra buildings, that's my problem.

I have invested some money so im a supporter of this game, but i feel like this is unfair and unbalanced and needs to be fixed.

two buildings is a major deal, cause space is most important thing in this game, it limits our population & culture which limits our goods/troops/guestrace production & your ''unit bonus buildings''
 
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DeletedUser4003

Guest
If you're doing that many provinces in a day I would assume you are at a point where you know to deal with the counters. At that rate it would be very much in your interest to manually fight if able regardless of troop type, unless you have many armories to compensate for troop loss.

But that's just my take. I don't do tournaments for rank, I just do them until they stop being useful.

Hello sunshine, i understand that you seek attention but it would be nice that you read posts before replying to them.
 

DeletedUser4003

Guest
Elven sorceresses WERE reworked hon as I tried to tell you. Their range and movement have been switched already; they used to be move 3 range 4. And one of their special abilities was removed b/c they were too powerful.

Then it was most stupid rework ever, why would someone buff movement, are they ment to run Nike marathon or are they ment to fight ....i really don't care about abilitys, to make this unit work all you need + % bonus damage to units you counter and decent range.

Range 4 would be a lot better vs hellhounds strike back 3 + at least same range with archers ....Sorceress is a punching bag, i should be getting, not spending supplys by producing sorceress.
Range is the thing which makes difference here.
 

Tonton-des-bois

Illusionist
My 2 pence opinion of someone who started Elvenar in 2015, trying to rehab from toxic 24/24h games (MMORPGs)...

At the begining I did some fight "by hand" because when you start, each unit counts, but I was coming from Forge of Empires, another Inno builder game and if the building part of the game was a bit more interesting, I was fast borred by Elvenar fighting part... I started to use the "autofight" asap... So, for the following, you can consider that I'm only talking from the "autofight" point of view...

I started building the Training Grounds as the dogs were very helpfull against all ranged units by waiting their first move then hitting first (manually)... but when Inno changed all units, the dogs weren't anymore worthing the room used by the TG, I needed room, I removed the TG for a while... Since I rebuilt it, I can't remember why, perhaps for a quest, perhaps for the points... But I'm never using other troops than the basic ones from the Barracks... Why ? Because I don't want to spend time chosing among 10 troops when the basic ones are more balanced, it saves me time, my top-graded Barracks and 4 Armories can replace easily the troops I'm using all along a tournament...

Nothing is a B/W option, we are all doing the fighting in a way that fits our wishes, the most efficient way needs to balance with the most borring way, some prefer to paint full houses each day, some prefer to spend 6 months on a Mona Lisa... none is right, none is wrong.

Along my 3+ years in Elvenar, this is an intuition, not a calculation, I think the new training grounds (& mercenary camp) troops have improved too slowly to worth building the extra buildings, except if you reach the last chapters without being borred of thinking about the fights...

Also, my Barracks (at Elemental's chapter) are requiring 1h58 and the TG 3h02 for the same amount of troops and sharing the same limited 5-slots queue... I could change my mind about the extra training building if they had their own queue, not in the way they are now...
 
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DeletedUser6357

Guest
I had prepared a good essay on this subject.
But I will save him - the game does not deserve it.
Everyone has the right to opinion (however strange - to vote in elections for people to run a state :p ). Here is my:
When fishing for carp, take a small amount of bait that is placed on the fishing hook. And take a GREAT pail with extra bait.
A large amount of bait from the bucket is thrown into the water - it falls to the bottom and attracts the carp.
The fishing hook puts a little of the real bait. The carp is de facto caught on it.
The Sorceress of the elves are just the bait of the big pail - they serve only as a lure, their task is to die. But not to get caught the fish!
Their health / blood is so small that they die like flies.
The Sorceress of the Elves have a chance only against an army of two colors - brown or/and beige.
If the enemy's army is more colorful, they are useless in battle.
Although they have two spells.
 

DeletedUser4003

Guest
Build the Dragon Abbey to improve Sorceress' :) You could have another account and play as a Human.;)
1. Increased damage wont reduce damage they take cause of their weak range. Damage isn't the problem here, range is what makes sorceress to loose rounds in any seconds.
2. I have invested too much time & money to start over, i rather quit playing then start over.
 

DeletedUser4003

Guest
My 2 pence opinion of someone who started Elvenar in 2015, trying to rehab from toxic 24/24h games (MMORPGs)...

At the begining I did some fight "by hand" because when you start, each unit counts, but I was coming from Forge of Empires, another Inno builder game and if the building part of the game was a bit more interesting, I was fast borred by Elvenar fighting part... I started to use the "autofight" asap... So, for the following, you can consider that I'm only talking from the "autofight" point of view...

I started building the Training Grounds as the dogs were very helpfull against all ranged units by waiting their first move then hitting first (manually)... but when Inno changed all units, the dogs weren't anymore worthing the room used by the TG, I needed room, I removed the TG for a while... Since I rebuilt it, I can't remember why, perhaps for a quest, perhaps for the points... But I'm never using other troops than the basic ones from the Barracks... Why ? Because I don't want to spend time chosing among 10 troops when the basic ones are more balanced, it saves me time, my top-graded Barracks and 4 Armories can replace easily the troops I'm using all along a tournament...

Nothing is a B/W option, we are all doing the fighting in a way that fits our wishes, the most efficient way needs to balance with the most borring way, some prefer to paint full houses each day, some prefer to spend 6 months on a Mona Lisa... none is right, none is wrong.

Along my 3+ years in Elvenar, this is an intuition, not a calculation, I think the new training grounds (& mercenary camp) troops have improved too slowly to worth building the extra buildings, except if you reach the last chapters without being borred of thinking about the fights...

Also, my Barracks (at Elemental's chapter) are requiring 1h58 and the TG 3h02 for the same amount of troops and sharing the same limited 5-slots queue... I could change my mind about the extra training building if they had their own queue, not in the way they are now...


Beginners tip of the day to Mr.Experienced: We have events, where we gain 14hr instants ....use them to train dogs.....in few minutes you will have 200+ squads (i made 342 squads) .....still have over 200 squads, so slow TG time don't affect me at all and my barracks produce troops happy since 1762.

No need to thank me, glad to help.
Also please stick to the topic, this isn't place for CV and being wrong about unit that isn't discussed here. :)
 
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DeletedUser441

Guest
I am playing as an Elf and find that the Sorceress' are very affective when fighting against the Heavy troops. They were better before the Dev's changed their range , but still win when pitted against the right opposition , especially if you use the Magnificent Mage Multiplier building. All Elves have the same troops , so why complain ?
 

Deleted User - 106219

Guest
ALL mage units are effective against Heavy units, not just the Sorceress.

Let's make a comparison:
World: Winyandor
Squad size in this city: 2718
Martial Monastery level 11 (+13,5% max HP)

A squad of Bud Sorceresses:
Damage 39K-59K
HP 154K
Range 3
Movement 4
Initiative 14
vs Heavy Melee +60%/-60%
vs Heavy Ranged +70%/-50%
Specials:
Target damage -50% for 2 rounds
Target Defense -20% for 2 rounds

Blossom Mage II
Damage ~44800-~74700
HP 109K
Range 5
Movement 2
Initiative 16
vs Heavy Melee +90%/-70%
vs Heavy Ranged +30%/-70%
Special:
Target Defense -30% for 3 rounds

Blossom Mage has MUCH better range, better damage, higher initiative (so she moves sooner), and better Special (that further improves her damage). Yes, I'd rather have an enemy that takes 30% extra damage from all of my units for 3 rounds, than an enemy that takes 20% extra damage for 2 rounds and deals 50% less damage. After all, a dead enemy cannot attack, which is the same as -100% damage debuff. And Blossom Mage still has one more upgrade that will give her a second special, so she too will start lowering enemy attack.

Sadly, I don't have any Banshees to compare them to the Sorceress, so someone else will have to do that.
 
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DeletedUser441

Guest
ALL mage units are effective against Heavy units, not just the Sorceress.

Let's make a comparison:
A squad of Bud Sorceresses:
Damage 39K-59K
HP 154K
Range 3
Movement 4
Initiative 14
vs Heavy Melee +60%/-60%
vs Heavy Ranged +70%/-50%
Specials:
Target damage -50% for 2 rounds
Target Defense -20% for 2 rounds

Blossom Mage II
Damage ~44800-~74700
HP 109K
Range 5
Movement 2
Initiative 16
vs Heavy Melee +90%/-70%
vs Heavy Ranged +30%/-70%
Special:
Target Defense -30% for 3 rounds

Blossom Mage has MUCH better range, better damage, higher initiative (so she moves sooner), and better Special (that further improves her damage). Yes, I'd rather have an enemy that takes 30% extra damage from all of my units for 3 rounds, than an enemy that takes 20% extra damage for 2 rounds and deals 50% less damage. After all, a dead enemy cannot attack, which is the same as -100% damage debuff. And Blossom Mage still has one more upgrade that will give her a second special, so she too will start lowering enemy attack.
113k
Sadly, I don't have any Banshees to compare them to the Sorceress, so someone else will have to do that.

I have the same troops but my stats are much lower . Bud Sorceress Damage 29258 - 43888 , HP 113k. Blossom Mage Damage 33066 - 55110 , HP 80368. There is a bonus of 13.5 % on my HP but nothing on Damage. Can anyone explain this ?
Moderators please explain this !
 
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DeletedUser5976

Guest
So it can't be his city on Arendyll where he has the Sorceresses. But perhaps he can tell us which AW he has in his city.
 

DeletedUser6357

Guest
The numbers described above are not correct.
They express the player's egocentrism and result from the his squad size. ;)
 

Deleted User - 106219

Guest
The stats I posted are the stats of a full squad of each unit (the squads you would use on the World Map). I do not have Dragon Abbey yet, so I have no attack bonus, but I have Martial Monastery level 11 (+13,5% HP). Give me a moment and I will give you some more stats, from my other cities.

World: Arendyl
Squad size in this city: 2505
Sanctuary level 7 (+9.75% max HP)

A squad of Sacred Priests:
Damage 36K-60K
HP 126K
Range 5
Movement 2
Initiative 13
vs Heavy Melee +70%/-0%
vs Heavy Ranged +80%/-80%
Specials:
Target damage -30% for 2 rounds
Target Defense -40% for 2 rounds

Blossom Mage II
Damage ~41300-~68800
HP ~97K
Range 5
Movement 2
Initiative 16
vs Heavy Melee +90%/-70%
vs Heavy Ranged +30%/-70%
Special:
Target Defense -30% for 3 rounds

Ghastly Banshee
Damage ~46K-~69K
HP ~146K
Range 3
Movement 4
Initiative 15
vs Heavy Melee +10%/-70%
vs Heavy Ranged +90%/-80%
Special:
Target Defense -50% for 1 round
Target damage -40% for 1 round



World: Felyndral
Squad size in this city: 729
No military AWs so far

A squad of Sacred Priests:
Damage ~10500-~17600
HP ~33600
Range 5
Movement 2
Initiative 13
vs Heavy Melee +70%/-0%
vs Heavy Ranged +80%/-80%
Specials:
Target damage -30% for 2 rounds
Target Defense -40% for 2 rounds

Blossom Mage (still in Orcs, so no upgrades for them yet)
Damage ~10900-~182000
HP ~23300
Range 5
Movement 2
Initiative 16
vs Heavy Melee +90%/-70%
vs Heavy Ranged +30%/-70%
Special:
Target Defense -30% for 3 rounds

No Banshees at this time



Overall it seems like the main advantage Priest and Sorceress have over Blossom Mages is that they have better HP. Priest also has a bit better debuff.


EDIT: While I am at it, here are the stats from Beta:
World: Beta
Squad size in this city: 1626
Martial Monastery level 1 (+4,5% max HP) (recently built because the rebalancing of the old event buildings left me with negative Culture)

A squad of Bud Sorceresses:
Damage ~23700-~35600
HP ~85K
Range 3
Movement 4
Initiative 14
vs Heavy Melee +60%/-60%
vs Heavy Ranged +70%/-50%
Specials:
Target damage -50% for 2 rounds
Target Defense -20% for 2 rounds

Blossom Mage II
Damage ~26800-~44700
HP ~60K
Range 5
Movement 2
Initiative 16
vs Heavy Melee +90%/-70%
vs Heavy Ranged +30%/-70%
Special:
Target Defense -30% for 3 rounds

Banshee II
Damage ~273000-~40900
HP ~82K
Range 3
Movement 4
Initiative 15
vs Heavy Melee +10%/-70%
vs Heavy Ranged +90%/-80%
Special:
Target Defense -50% for 1 round
 
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DeletedUser441

Guest
Support has enlightened me as to why my stats are lower for the same troops. The stats are for a whole squad , not an individual unit.:oops:
 
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