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Easy Preparations for the next FA

Sir Derf

Mentor
Let's face it, Sacks of Coins badges previously weren't worth the Coins in their Sack. We never paid particular attention to collecting them, and despite this we all ended up with plenty of Sack of Coin Badges.

INNO showed their intention to address this. Abruptly, without warning, and to a level that many feel was an unnecessary overcompensating increase to 4x the previous costs. INNO might keep it at this new level. INNO might reduce it to a smaller increase. But, I think it's safe to say, it's not going to fall back to the original levels.

So, what can you do to prepare? Yes, I discussed this in other threads, but I felt this take was important enough to lift out into it's own thread, to hopefully bring it better visibility. As I thought on this, I realized a couple of things... Most of these suggestions represent things you probably were going to do in your city anyway; this just suggests prioritizing them higher than you might have previously because you might not have thought it mattered. Most of these suggestions won't be done at the expense of producing other badges in the FA. And, most of these suggestions don't have negative consequences.

  • Things to do in the time between FAs
    • Upgrade your Residences within your current Chapter.
    • Upgrade your Golden Abyss. (I find this to be the most useful AW in existence. It's one of the first ones you get, so is available for dumping KP into from an early point, and thus really easy to get to a high Level. It's got a tiny footprint. It quickly becomes more efficient at Population than a Residence, and at the top it is massively more efficient.) (Yes, increased AW Levels causes increased difficulty in some aspects of the game, so consider well, but I think this one is worth it)
    • Build up an inventory of EE spells.
  • Things to do before an FA
    • Wait to collect Coins from Residences immediately before the FA
    • Wait to perform Neighborly Help immediately before the FA
  • Things to do during the FA
    • Perform Neighborly help immediately upon the start of the FA, and continue Neighborly Help in a timely matter to accomplish a 7th round of Neighborly Help during the FA.
    • Use EE spells during the FA to increase your Culture Production Bonus.
    • Coordinate with your Fellowship to Neighborly Help all members during the FA by buffing Culture buildings, further increasing your Culture Production Bonus.
There are additional things you can do to improve your Sack of Coins production during the FA, but these are the ones that I feel you can accomplish almost for free.
 

Lymhir

Seeker
Sorry, you call it easy? :)
I call it stressful, and when something starts to become stressful the only solution is to ignore it.
Of all the events the FA is the only one that deserves a totally negative grade, I think it's time to radically revise it:
- it's boring
- cumbersome
- the rewards are not worth the effort
- it has 4 management buttons at the bottom totally useless
- and if by chance you reach the pit watch out! you might die of boredom
...
 

Sir Derf

Mentor
I called my preparations easy. Not that gameplay in the FA under these new rules are easy, or that my suggestions would make that gameplay easy.

Is upgrading Residences difficult?
Is the Golden Abyss not worthy of being upgraded?
Are those not generally helpful for a city all the time, FA or not?

This is part of the reason I felt it desirous to split into a new thread. I politely suggest that your response, expressing an opinion you are free to have, is 100% appropriate for this Forum, but 99.44% off topic for this thread.
 

Jake65

Sorcerer
Things to do before an FA
If I could add, wait to collect NH coins from your main hall for a day or two before.
It can hold 20x NH donations which for my MH would be 1/3 of a sack of coins badge.
 

Jake65

Sorcerer
Upgrade your Residences within your current Chapter
Worthwhile!!
Not only does the production amount increase but also the full production time so you can collect a far larger chunk of coins when the FA begins.
 

Lymhir

Seeker
It's not off topic at all, the preparation you're talking about is stress added to the stress inherent in FA.
 

Sir Derf

Mentor
Well then say that then.

All five of your bullet points reflect the FA in general, and not my preparation suggestions.

I'm sorry if upgrading Residences or the Golden Abyss are stressful to you.
I'm sorry if thinking about not collecting coins immediately before an FA is stressful to you.
I'm sorry if the rest are stressful to you.
 

Lymhir

Seeker
In fact, the first two lines correctly referred to your preparation, the subsequent points were to explain that adding more stress to an already stressful thing doesn't make much sense.
 

Silly Bubbles

Sorcerer
Has anyone done calculations when it's better to get culture polished or Main Hall? In some instances, it's obvious like I don't have many residences so MH is better. I'm still curious whether culture bonus is as good as it seems.
 

Sir Derf

Mentor
I notice you didn't do the calculation yourself.... And I can't do your numbers for you, as I don't know your stats... But I can show you how my numbers work out... Which is obviously what you were asking for, right?


Currently, I have a mix of 34 L38 Residences, 5 L17 Magic Residences and 4 L18 Magic Residences. Let's just round that down to 45 L38 Residences. An L38 Residence produces 318,000 Coins / 23.5 h, or all together 14,614,468 Coins/day. An individual NH Culture boost (provided you already have the 25% increase) is 5% increase in production / NH buff. 5% of my daily production is 730,723 Coins/day. (Assuming you can maintain the buff for 24 hours)

Currently, my L39 Main Hall provides 475k Coins in bonus for every received NH Main hall buff.

731k > 475k. 54% better.

And, my numbers would be better still if all Residence were at their max L39, my Magic Residences were all L17, and I counted all my Magic Residences fully.



Obviously, everyone should do their own math, as their circumstances will be different.
 

Silly Bubbles

Sorcerer
Obviously, everyone should do their own math, as their circumstances will be different.

Yeah, you're right as it is a very city specific calculation as there's a number of things to consider like:

- A - how many additional coins we get when we increase our culture bonus from all usual visits
- B - how many coins we get from others clicking on our MH
- C - how many visits do we usually get

So, as long as A > B*C, it's better to get clicks on culture rather than Main Hall.

Also, from personal experience, not many people follow our visiting preferences so it'll be a combination of the two even if we state our visiting preferences.
 

Sir Derf

Mentor
Edit - changed hypothetical from referring to a 'Neighbor' to a 'Fellow'.

A is irrelevant. B is irrelevant. C is irrelevant. B*C is irrelevant. And finally, whether A > B*C is irrelevant.

Whether NeighborFellow John Smith should give NH to Culture or the Main Hall is irrelevant of what other people are doing. 99 people could give NH to the Main Hall, and the relative weights of John Smith's selection will still be the same. 99 people could give NH to Culture, and the relative weights of John Smith's selection will still be the same.

When you go to the grocery store, and are deciding which is the most cost-effective package of paper towels, it does not matter what else is in your cart. You compare each of the paper towel options, regardless of the 99 boxes of Hot Pockets you've already picked up.


Yes, it's a city-specific calculation. The real things to consider are:
  • n - Number of Residences and Magic Residences
  • Level of Residences (for production rates (X) and time frames (Y))
  • Main Hall Level (for bonus coins from NH received to MH (Z))
So, as long as (5% * n * X * (150+Y)) > Z, it's better to get NH on Culture rather than MH.

(I left out a nuance or two in my earlier computation)

Using my numbers, (5% * 45 * 13,532 * (150 + 23.5)) vs. (475k * 7) which is 5,282,555 vs. 3,325,000. 59% better.



If I have 100 Neighbors who diligently visit, I can receive anywhere between 332.5M and 528.3M in coins over the FA, depending on how many give NH to the Main Hall versus Culture buildings (assuming I have 100 Culture buildings, of course). The more who give to Culture, the better. But, the benefit from each of those 100 Neighbors is equal and independent regardless of what each of the other 99 Neighbors do.


Apparently I have to rephrase my earlier closing statement...

Obviously, everyone should do their own math using the correct computations, as their circumstances will be different.
 
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Sir Derf

Mentor
Oh, and I made the suggestion only for your Fellowship, who, if your are a communicating Fellowship trying to mutually participate in a Fellowship Adventure, should all be willing to give the appropriate NH, at least during the FA. I realize you probably can't rely on run-of-the-mill Neighbors, so I wasn't including them in my suggestion.
 

Silly Bubbles

Sorcerer
A is irrelevant. B is irrelevant. C is irrelevant. B*C is irrelevant. And finally, whether A > B*C is irrelevant.

There's not only one way to Rome.

PS: Using your tone and communication style: What the you talking about? I'm the only one that does everything right and it has to be done exactly as I say. :p:D
 

Sir Derf

Mentor
There might be more than one way to Rome, but I think you took should have turned left at Albuquerque

I don't suppose you'd be willing to put numbers to your formula and explain how it has any bearing on the question at hand, which I will again point out was specifically pointed to your Fellows, and not your run of the mill Neighbors, despite my erroneous use of Neighbor instead of Fellow earlier? Or point out why my computation is incorrect?

Maybe this will mean more if I actually do compute for you, based on your own numbers, and we'll see how it is for you.

From Elvenstats and your city on Felyndral, you have 10 Level 19 Magic Residences (responsible for 26% of your total population) and a Level 43 Main Hall. Level 19 Magic Residences produce 45,833 Coins/hour and a Maximum Time Frame of 24 hours, while Level 43 Main Hall gives 800k bonus for received NH.

(5% * 10 * 45,833 * (150 + 24)) vs. 800k * 7

3,987,471 < 5,600,000

So, for your Felyndral City, it is more worth it for your Fellows to give NH to your Main Hall rather than Culture.
 

Sir Derf

Mentor
And, for comparison, your city on Arendyl (which I admit hasn't been touched in 3 years) has 24 Level 28, 14 Level 27 Residences and 1 Level 3 Magic Residence (which combined are responsible for 79% of your total population), and a Level 27 Main Hall.

(5% * ((24 * 6,324* (150 + 18.5)) + (14 * 5,611 * (150 + 18)) + (1 * 1,044 * (150 + 9))) vs. 147k * 7

(5% * (25,574,256 + 13,197,072 + 165,996) vs. 147k * 7

(5% * 38,937,324) vs. 147k * 7

1,946,866 > 1,029,000

So, for your (not recently used) Arendyl City, it would be more worth it if your Fellows gave NH to your Culture rather than Main Hall.



Do you see how this works yet?
 

Silly Bubbles

Sorcerer
There might be more than one way to Rome, but I think you took should have turned left at Albuquerque

I don't suppose you'd be willing to put numbers to your formula and explain how it has any bearing on the question at hand, which I will again point out was specifically pointed to your Fellows, and not your run of the mill Neighbors, despite my erroneous use of Neighbor instead of Fellow earlier? Or point out why my computation is incorrect?

Maybe this will mean more if I actually do compute for you, based on your own numbers, and we'll see how it is for you.

From Elvenstats and your city on Felyndral, you have 10 Level 19 Magic Residences (responsible for 26% of your total population) and a Level 43 Main Hall. Level 19 Magic Residences produce 45,833 Coins/hour and a Maximum Time Frame of 24 hours, while Level 43 Main Hall gives 800k bonus for received NH.

(5% * 10 * 45,833 * (150 + 24)) vs. 800k * 7

3,987,471 < 5,600,000

So, for your Felyndral City, it is more worth it for your Fellows to give NH to your Main Hall rather than Culture.

I think my way to Rome is shorter and faster. :):cool:

But I do understand your long way so let's go by that. So I need minimum 15 magic residence for culture polish to be better than Main Hall donation (5,600k / (5% * 45,833 * (150 + 24)).
Just couple of additions. I get 65 visits per day at this moment. If all of them gave me Main Hall donation there's no way that residences could keep up with that. I could calculate that but I'm pretty sure that would be the case (I do love shortcuts but I'm ok to be proved wrong). But ok, 800k * 65 = 52,000k.
Also, let's not ignore the main cultural bonus of 125%, 150%, 160%, 170%. My base cultural bonus is 100%. My buildings don't have very high cultural bonus. So that will increase your calculated cultural bonus too.

Short version: Residences and cultural bonus is not automatically better than neighbours' donations to our Main Hall. So I'd do at least rough calculation before deciding which way to go as it can make getting coin badges much easier.
 

Sir Derf

Mentor
Your evaluation of 65 visits is just my evaluation of one visit, multiplied 65 times. For your city, it isn't a good idea once; over 65 visits it is 65x worse in a gross way, equally worse on a percentage basis. For my city, it's a good idea once, and 24x better in a gross way, equally good on a percentage basis if received from all 24 of my Fellows. Your way is my way, at least the way you're explaining it now. Your way just required you to look at 64 more people to reach the same conclusion. Or, to put it in your traveling analogy, after traveling to Rome the first time, you had to repeat the trip 64 more times before you were satisfied you had the right answer.

And to the base cultural boost, I believe I also mentioned that earlier in this thread


You are right, it isn't automatically better. So, like I said a couple of times over, everyone should do their own math. And, my having done your math for Felyndral city shows that you shouldn't.
 

Silly Bubbles

Sorcerer
Your evaluation of 65 visits is just my evaluation of one visit, multiplied 65 times. For your city, it isn't a good idea once; over 65 visits it is 65x worse in a gross way, equally worse on a percentage basis. For my city, it's a good idea once, and 24x better in a gross way, equally good on a percentage basis if received from all 24 of my Fellows. Your way is my way, at least the way you're explaining it now. Your way just required you to look at 64 more people to reach the same conclusion. Or, to put it in your traveling analogy, after traveling to Rome the first time, you had to repeat the trip 64 more times before you were satisfied you had the right answer.

And to the base cultural boost, I believe I also mentioned that earlier in this thread


You are right, it isn't automatically better. So, like I said a couple of times over, everyone should do their own math. And, my having done your math for Felyndral city shows that you shouldn't.

Yes, you're right. I shouldn't use your math, I should stick to mine. :)
 
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