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Update Discussion Discussion: New Spìre of Eternity rewards.

Gargon667

Mentor
If their goal is to "even the playing field", as it were, then maybe they ought to increase the chance of getting an artefact because 5% is very low, and with the limited nature of their presence in the Spire, it feels odd that they have such a low chance of dropping.

Well somebody supposedly did the math and came to an average of roughly 1 artifacts per week, which means the average player gets around 6 of them, with the upcoming easter event I think that should easily be enough for nearly everybody to get a fire bird to 10 without much trouble. I don´t see the point of handing out even more artifacts.
 

Elryar

Dreamer
Well somebody supposedly did the math and came to an average of roughly 1 artifacts per week, which means the average player gets around 6 of them, with the upcoming easter event I think that should easily be enough for nearly everybody to get a fire bird to 10 without much trouble. I don´t see the point of handing out even more artifacts.

You say that, but many people haven't received a single artefact, every week so far.
 

Pauly7

Magus
If their goal is to "even the playing field", as it were, then maybe they ought to increase the chance of getting an artefact because 5% is very low, and with the limited nature of their presence in the Spire, it feels odd that they have such a low chance of dropping.
I'm inclined to agree. If they are looking to even the playing field then they should just give out a guaranteed artefact for reaching the top of the spire, on top of what they are already giving. That way they would be saying that for anyone that is completing the spire then they would be almost a guarantee of evolving a whole bird during the 6 weeks. The current set up could be dividing the field even more, because they're powering up some people, but some unlucky ones may only get 1 or 2 artefacts the whole time.
 

DopeyDoc

Dreamer
I'm inclined to agree. If they are looking to even the playing field then they should just give out a guaranteed artefact for reaching the top of the spire, on top of what they are already giving ... some unlucky ones may only get 1 or 2 artefacts the whole time.

This is a great idea - I'm in the unlucky category so far, with only one artefact from three completed Spires. Even the few reward chests I've won have been duds :(
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
This is a great idea - I'm in the unlucky category so far, with only one artefact from three completed Spires. Even the few reward chests I've won have been duds :(
Well it's a 6 week experiment, so so far you have no clue yet of you are lucky or unlucky.
You only need 1 lucky spire out of those 6 weeks to get to average.

But yeah for events like this I do not like the pretty hefty RNG.
I want people to get an opportunity to get a firebird, even if it takes 2 events / years. but the RNG is to hard on this one, there will be people ending with none or 1/2 artefacts, while I don't need it and got 8 of them so far. the range should be more like 3-4, but with only 6 weeks there will be not be enough opportunity for the RNG to average out.
 

RainbowElvira

Sorcerer
The Fire Phoenix has much impact on the Spire and tournament. In my opinion so much impact that every player must be able to get one fully evolved. As long as there are new players joining, there will probably always be some way to get Phoenix Artifacts (or universal ones).
 

Stucon

Illusionist
The Fire Phoenix has much impact on the Spire and tournament. In my opinion so much impact that every player must be able to get one fully evolved. As long as there are new players joining, there will probably always be some way to get Phoenix Artifacts (or universal ones).
hear hear
 

Gargon667

Mentor
You say that, but many people haven't received a single artefact, every week so far.

Same here, none so far... doesn´t mean the average isn´t 1 per week though. That´s how random works.

However the real question should be if you want random or not? Do you want the chance to get 3 per week and other weeks get 0? Or do you want the other extreme where everybody gets exactly 1 every week? Most often people seem to prefer the non-random option, but I personally don´t mind the random effect, it makes the whole thing a bit more interesting :) I personally never even bother looking at what I get if I know what it is anyway, a mere annoyance to click away. The only rewards I actually look at are both big and random, things like golden and purple chests in the spire, I am actually interested in what it is :D. If the reward is non-random, like the 19 chests rewards or the gold medal, I never bother looking, no matter how big the reward is, also if the reward is random, but small, like the regular encounter chests in the spire, I don´t look, but that´s a different matter and open to discussion what big/small means.
As I said, if it´s not random it´s nothing I look at for sure. So that is my guess why the game like offering random rewards.
 

DeletedUser9850

Guest
So far as we know
6 weeks we get original Phoenix Artifacts
6 weeks we go back to Library
After that we do not know, we only speculate...
Watch the News from Beta section we will tell you what happens there, once we know
Thanks for the info
 

Elryar

Dreamer
Same here, none so far... doesn´t mean the average isn´t 1 per week though. That´s how random works.

However the real question should be if you want random or not? Do you want the chance to get 3 per week and other weeks get 0? Or do you want the other extreme where everybody gets exactly 1 every week? Most often people seem to prefer the non-random option, but I personally don´t mind the random effect, it makes the whole thing a bit more interesting :) I personally never even bother looking at what I get if I know what it is anyway, a mere annoyance to click away. The only rewards I actually look at are both big and random, things like golden and purple chests in the spire, I am actually interested in what it is :D. If the reward is non-random, like the 19 chests rewards or the gold medal, I never bother looking, no matter how big the reward is, also if the reward is random, but small, like the regular encounter chests in the spire, I don´t look, but that´s a different matter and open to discussion what big/small means.
As I said, if it´s not random it´s nothing I look at for sure. So that is my guess why the game like offering random rewards.

It doesn't "make things interesting" it just means some people have a 4x4 building that gives their units 50% more damage and many don't. It's massively unfair and it needs to change.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
Same here, none so far... doesn´t mean the average isn´t 1 per week though. That´s how random works.

However the real question should be if you want random or not? Do you want the chance to get 3 per week and other weeks get 0? Or do you want the other extreme where everybody gets exactly 1 every week? Most often people seem to prefer the non-random option, but I personally don´t mind the random effect, it makes the whole thing a bit more interesting :) I personally never even bother looking at what I get if I know what it is anyway, a mere annoyance to click away. The only rewards I actually look at are both big and random, things like golden and purple chests in the spire, I am actually interested in what it is :D. If the reward is non-random, like the 19 chests rewards or the gold medal, I never bother looking, no matter how big the reward is, also if the reward is random, but small, like the regular encounter chests in the spire, I don´t look, but that´s a different matter and open to discussion what big/small means.
As I said, if it´s not random it´s nothing I look at for sure. So that is my guess why the game like offering random rewards.

depends, if you are one of those recent players who has not got one yet.. then it is rightfully so extremely frustrating.
It's not that you can't compensatie it with cash or so like and event.

Fire phoenix, polar bear and brown bear are gamechangers, there is a reason the phoenix is returning for the 3rd year in a row.
 

Deleted User - 341074

Guest
However the real question should be if you want random or not? Do you want the chance to get 3 per week and other weeks get 0? Or do you want the other extreme where everybody gets exactly 1 every week?
For me, somewhere in the middle, closer to the latter.
I do not like
Average 5 with Common Results of 1 and 9

I'm fine with
Average 5.5 with Common Results of 4 and 7

I enjoy games at the casino like blackjack where I win ~49% of the time or roulette at ~47%, even slot machines at ~41%, but I never buy a lottery ticket.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
depends, if you are one of those recent players who has not got one yet.. then it is rightfully so extremely frustrating.
It's not that you can't compensatie it with cash or so like and event.

Fire phoenix, polar bear and brown bear are gamechangers, there is a reason the phoenix is returning for the 3rd year in a row.

If I agree or disagree with this depends mostly on the next event I guess.

Definitely the Firebird is a necessary building for excelling at tourneys, but so are many other things. It should certainly be possible to gain this building say by playing for a year? I don´t see it necessary to be available 100% of the time without effort.
Especially if the upcoming event works like last years I have no problem with a highly random number artifacts in the spire. The event will provide a stable baseline, so that the spire artifacts are only a way to top up what you get from the event. Also I would assume that this is not the only 6 week period with artifacts in the spire.... In the end I think we don´t have enough information to really say.
But my guess is that rather soon more and more people will be complaining about too many artifacts...

Also I just got my first artifact :)
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
If I agree or disagree with this depends mostly on the next event I guess.

Definitely the Firebird is a necessary building for excelling at tourneys, but so are many other things. It should certainly be possible to gain this building say by playing for a year? I don´t see it necessary to be available 100% of the time without effort.
Especially if the upcoming event works like last years I have no problem with a highly random number artifacts in the spire. The event will provide a stable baseline, so that the spire artifacts are only a way to top up what you get from the event. Also I would assume that this is not the only 6 week period with artifacts in the spire.... In the end I think we don´t have enough information to really say.
But my guess is that rather soon more and more people will be complaining about too many artifacts...

Also I just got my first artifact :)

Got 9 so far, and modded my previous ones to coldfire last year in the hope it would be some train -> phoenix->coldfire->ashen->next year but it looks that guess was wrong.

I agree with you that it depends on next easter event, if that indeed allows swaps from ashen to phoenix then I agree with you.
if not, and this was this years only opportunity then it sucks.


I totally agree with you that you should not get them to easy, but once per year and then 4-6 artefacts would be nice. not 0-15 that margin is a bit to much
 

Elryar

Dreamer
Yeah so I've done the Spire every week almost to the end, and I've only received ONE phoenix artefact after all of it. Feels like it would nearly be a total waste of time if I wasn't getting the time boosters and CCs. I did get a Magic Residence, Magic Workshop, a Genie and a Trading Station, but no artefacts... the only things worth getting let's face it.

Inno, you really need to fix this broken system because it's leaving some people with a fully levelled Fire Phoenix and many, like me, with nothing. It's not working.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
Yeah so I've done the Spire every week almost to the end, and I've only received ONE phoenix artefact after all of it. Feels like it would nearly be a total waste of time if I wasn't getting the time boosters and CCs. I did get a Magic Residence, Magic Workshop, a Genie and a Trading Station, but no artefacts... the only things worth getting let's face it.

Inno, you really need to fix this broken system because it's leaving some people with a fully levelled Fire Phoenix and many, like me, with nothing. It's not working.
I wouldn't be mad with a premium residence and workshop in a month, those odds are pretty good.
but yeah it sucks if your goal is those artifacts
 
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Elryar

Dreamer
The Fire Phoenix is such a ridiculously OP building. +50% unit damage from the feeding effect at level 10? How many other buildings have such a powerful effect? It's a game changer, and I can't get it, not because I'm bad at the game, not because I don't pay Inno my hard earned money, not because I don't spend enough time or don't dedicate myself to the Spire every single week. I can't get it because of ridiculously bad luck. Fix this system! It's a terrible way to give players the opportunity to collect old artefacts!
 

Gargon667

Mentor
The Fire Phoenix is such a ridiculously OP building. +50% unit damage from the feeding effect at level 10? How many other buildings have such a powerful effect? It's a game changer, and I can't get it, not because I'm bad at the game, not because I don't pay Inno my hard earned money, not because I don't spend enough time or don't dedicate myself to the Spire every single week. I can't get it because of ridiculously bad luck. Fix this system! It's a terrible way to give players the opportunity to collect old artefacts!

The Firebird sure is the most powerful building in the game, and I understand your frustration, but I also understand Inno doesn´t want to just hand it out for free once a month to everybody. This time they limited it by a highly random factor, good for the lucky ones, bad for the unlucky ones as you said. The good news is, the next phoenix event is only a few weeks off, and if things go the way they have before you should have a chance for more artifacts soon. Events have a very low random factor and a pretty high baseline guarantee. So it will be the other extreme.
It is a game of patience and if you look at it another way: Some people have played the game for many years before the Firebird was invented, while you are still on track to get yours within less than a year from starting to play :)
 

RainbowElvira

Sorcerer
Some people have played the game for many years before the Firebird was invented

Disagree. The tournament got a complete overhaul long after the existence of the Fire Phoenix. I think it is safe to assume that the balancing was made with the bird in mind.

What has been before the tournament changes is now irrelevant.

I firmly believe that every player must have the opportunity to get a fully evolved Fire Phoenix without too much effort. Anything else is just unfair to new players. It's not nice to slam the door before their noses.
 

Laurelin

Sorcerer
The Firebird sure is the most powerful building in the game, and [...] Inno doesn´t want to just hand it out for free once a month to everybody.
Well, that is in fact exactly what happened when the 2019 Phoenixes, including the Fire Phoenix, were introduced. The Event concerned ran for less than a month, and it was easy at that time, even for a non-hardcore player such as myself and without spending anything on extra Event Currency, to acquire a fully upgraded Fire Phoenix simply by following the usual line-up of not-very-demanding Quests. Therefore I absolutely fail to see why new players - and those who either chose a different Phoenix originally and/or did not earn enough Artifacts to level up one Fire Phoenix - should now have to jump through far more difficult hoops in order to acquire a Level 10 Fire Phoenix than those of us who just happened to be around during 2019.

There are many games which re-run old Events (or Quests, or any other in-game method of earning particularly valuable items) exclusively for players who do not already own the item(s) in question. I see no reason why this should not be done in Elvenar as well, thus giving all players the chance to win a fully levelled Fire Phoenix via the same effort which existing Phoenix owners put in - and with the same degree of certainty, as well (as opposed to relying on pure chance, which I consider to be a particularly unfair system). If the game allows for individually tailored Diamond sale offers to be presented to different players, as we know is the case, then I see no reason why individually tailored Quests/Events could not also be implemented.
 
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