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Answered difference between elves and humans

JAQQ

Seeker
what are the difference between elves and humans, and is one better than the other?
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
Elves have prettier buildings.
Humans produce more goods.
Elves have really awesome culture.
Humans have WAY better troops.
Elves have a bit more space, except for the house transition at dwarf to faerie.

I love the battle system so for me it's Human all the way :)

you forgot a mayor asterix, this "better" troops thing requires you to be at the start of chapter 16.
just a "minor" detail.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
you forgot a mayor asterix, this "better" troops thing requires you to be at the start of chapter 16.
just a "minor" detail.

Human troops are better than elven troops right from the start and all the way through the game, the main reason humans are better is that the have better barrack troops, which is the only troops in the start.

Light melee: Both suck
Light range: Similar in the beginning, but humans get somewhat better upgrades.
Mage: Humans are WAY better from start to end.
Heavy Melee: Humans are far better than elves.
Heavy Range: Elves are better than humans.

As I said this is right from the first level of building barracks. Elves only had 1 way of pulling even (by finishing chapter 15) when Merc Camp units finally equal human troops quality. However also this will change very soon now, when the training queues become separated. Humans will be able to train high quality troops in both barracks and Merc camp, while elves can train high quality troops in the Merc camp and junk in the barracks....
So I see no point anywhere in the game now where elves can keep up with humans in terms of military.

And since the military is a VERY big part of playing the game I would never recommend starting an elven town anymore, unless you purely play for looks or personal preference. If you want to be part of any high performing FS humans have a huge advantage. And btw this sucks :p
 

anonglitch

Co-Community Manager
Elvenar Team
As mentioned above, these are some of the differences, however, the most noticeable difference besides looks, its that the tech tree from a chapter I to V is slightly different for elves than for humans. In the end, they are balanced, but their progress is a bit different. For example, with humans you will need to use the trader sooner, however, elven mages are weaker in combat for example.

Some buildings like Holy Codex (humans) are exclusive to each race. However, event buildings usually surpass these, so it is a minor difference.

As you progress through guest races/chapters, your city looks with start to inherit those that visit you! Also, some of the looks you get by the mountains in your city when building AWs will differ among both races as well.

Both options are balanced, and while some game changes may alter this balance, we focus on keep this balance properly, bringing more changes if necessary.

You can play up to three worlds in these servers, so you can start an elven city in a world, a human city in another, and get to experience both. You may stick with the one you like the most, or with both as many players do.

Especially at the beginning, in terms of aesthetics, human cities will look more like real life (for example, a small wood-chopping building for your planks), while elven will look more fantasy (a tree shaking its head for planks). But these also will ultimately be changing to those looks of the races we will be inviting to our cities for both human and elven cities.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
Human troops are better than elven troops right from the start and all the way through the game, the main reason humans are better is that the have better barrack troops, which is the only troops in the start.

Light melee: Both suck
Light range: Similar in the beginning, but humans get somewhat better upgrades.
Mage: Humans are WAY better from start to end.
Heavy Melee: Humans are far better than elves.
Heavy Range: Elves are better than humans.

As I said this is right from the first level of building barracks. Elves only had 1 way of pulling even (by finishing chapter 15) when Merc Camp units finally equal human troops quality. However also this will change very soon now, when the training queues become separated. Humans will be able to train high quality troops in both barracks and Merc camp, while elves can train high quality troops in the Merc camp and junk in the barracks....
So I see no point anywhere in the game now where elves can keep up with humans in terms of military.

And since the military is a VERY big part of playing the game I would never recommend starting an elven town anymore, unless you purely play for looks or personal preference. If you want to be part of any high performing FS humans have a huge advantage. And btw this sucks :p

Light melee: I agree both suck, tho the -attack power + little more hp helps a little bit in favor of the swordsmen, they get a little bit more time to reach the enemy before they are slaughtered.
Light Range: No archers are similar but the better upgrade is for the archer, it takes up to ranger 3 for the human so really surpass archer III, It seems you have no clue how powerfull in elvenar the -defence power is. compared to the archer III the corssbowmen III are pathetic due the fact they have the "wrong" special power.
Mage: Totally agree priest is by far the best mage unit in game.
Heavy Melee: In base they are very similar, the issue is autocombat and AI issues which makes the human paladin / valorian guard more reliable. the 1 range does make a difference, but it's not awesomely much or far superior except for avoiding AI issues. treants have twice the hitpoints of a palladin which is also awesome. so yes they are a little better because of range and range only.
Heavy Range: OMG, what are mortars pathetic, if we compare elven sorceres to priest then we compare golem to mortar, the sorceres is not as bad compared to the priest as the mortar is to the golem. it's insane. mortars are in essence the most useless unit in game untill you reach frog prince when you can mingle the 2 to get the best out of the worst.
So the golem is not better, it's WAY++ better then the mortar.

I mentioned the -defence power of the archer before, prog princes are awesome, mortars are useless, the why?, as they are essentially the same unit, is in that special power, frog princes make awesome units, in some cases superior to the golem in other cases similar. the only difference is it's power. where mortars have - attack power and allow units to units to get within stike distance and hurt them , the frog prince blasts away that defence and kills them before they reach it.

This is the power of - defence and if that unit has a 70% defence agains your unit a -30% defence power actually removes 51% defence.
Making it so much easier to kill the enemy unit, this is why crossbowmen/druids with there -attack power fail, and archer/rangers rule supreme.

So this is why your human vs elves list is not a good representation of reality
It's only later in game when all units are unlocked where the split between production queues and proper alternative options for the humans bad units the humans become superior to the elves. but we are talking about very late game.
 
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BlueBlou

Illusionist
It still feels to me as if the elf treant is better than the human paladin. Have you seen those trees destroy the dog enemy troops?

If you happen to be in group that does well in the Fellowship Adventures, then being an elf is to your advantage as you can place more level 1 tier 1 manufacturing sets. Also easier to see the difference between the buildings and the workshops.

All this are probably not helping any new player decide which race to choose. Just follow your heart and make whatever you choose work for you. This is your game to mold as you would like with whatever resources available to you. As such there is no right or wrong choice. Happy gaming!
 
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Lelanya

Mentor
It still feels to me as if the elf treant is better than the human paladin. Have you seen those trees destroy the dog enemy troops?

If you happen to be in group that does well in the Fellowship Adventures, then being an elf is to your advantage as you can place more level 1 tier 1 manufacturing sets. Also easier to see the difference between the buildings and the workshops.
The damage might be better for the trees but they are so slow... their initiative is high, they go last, with swamp monsters intermingled. The paladins reach of 2 more than compensates for the treants heavier damage by eliminating strikeback from all but enemy orc strategists and knights (and mistwalkers or thornrose mage, but they're not why you bring heavy hitters in the first place).

While Blue is correct about FA buildings, this also leads to overproduction of factory goods by elven players.
 
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CrazyWizard

Shaman
It still feels to me as if the elf treant is better than the human paladin. Have you seen those trees destroy the dog enemy troops?

If you happen to be in group that does well in the Fellowship Adventures, then being an elf is to your advantage as you can place more level 1 tier 1 manufacturing sets. Also easier to see the difference between the buildings and the workshops.

All this are probably not helping any new player decide which race to choose. Just follow your heart and make whatever you choose work for you. This is your game to mold as you would like with whatever resources available to you. As such there is no right or wrong choice. Happy gaming!

treants are awesome, the main issue are mages / archer who can dance around it without the treant ever getting into attack range. this can be countered with some good moves cornering them.
The issue is terrain and AI who just screw this up to often.
Paladins have 1 range and this 1 range allows them to at least always hit back in there own turn, this makes them much more reliable.
If you exclude the random AI losses thet we see sometimes then the losses are about the same between both units.

Only the handfull AI losses (which are automatically huge) make the treant worse than the paladin
 

Pauly7

Magus
If you happen to be in group that does well in the Fellowship Adventures, then being an elf is to your advantage as you can place more level 1 tier 1 manufacturing sets. Also easier to see the difference between the buildings and the workshops.
This is quite a complicated one to use as a basis for choice. The reason is that as the FA is a team game then what it really comes down to is whether your fellowship has enough elven cities. An elf city uses 8 tiles to make a manu badge compared to 10 tiles for a human city, but also a lot more real estate needs to be given over to producing workshop badges. For a team to maximise on their success I think they are going to be fine so long as they have about 7 or 8 committed elves. By laws of averages most have more than that.

You're not wrong, but it is a really small factor to consider.
 

Pauly7

Magus
I'm interested if anyone has any views on the different types of Light Melee troops, by the way. In these conversations it's usually just dismissed with "all LM is bad", but being bad should we not consider what the least bad are?
 

Hekata

Artisan
Just follow your heart and make whatever you choose work for you. This is your game to mold as you would like with whatever resources available to you. As such there is no right or wrong choice. Happy gaming!
I think this is the best advice given here.
As you can see there are some differences but it all balances out in the end. The tournaments are the one thing where humans might have a bit of an advantage but @CrazyWizard gives a very good summery of elven vs human troops and as you can see, all thing considered, the differences are not that big. And those differences are only (somewhat) important if tournaments will be a big thing for you, if you want to go after big scores and rankings... If not, then you can have a decent amount of points with any troops.
Also keep in mind that this game evolves constantly and sometimes even core things change - like the tournaments that just got completely overhauled. Another example: from what I've read, once upon the time, the elven sorceress which is considered to be one of the weakest unites now, was the strongest of them all but then it got nerfed to it's current state.

Ultimately I'd say go for the aesthetics you prefer since that's the only constant in this game. Humans - more realistic and squared/sharp buildings, elves - more fantasy and curvy/fluid/pointy buildings.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
I'm interested if anyone has any views on the different types of Light Melee troops, by the way. In these conversations it's usually just dismissed with "all LM is bad", but being bad should we not consider what the least bad are?

  1. Dogs: no doubt the best unit of them all, the only reason is that they can actally hit something for sure due there massive range. the main issue of LM units is that they are slaugtered before they can reach the enemy and thats the only think this unit has less issues with, unfortunatly this unit has a fairly low initiative which offsets it's main advantage.
  2. Drone Riders: At least on paper these are fairly good. they have a better range and a decent amount of HP thats a bit higher than the cerberus and barbarians. they also have the higest raw damage per weight but since dogs are in another league it would be wastefull to make them unless they are "free"
  3. Sworddancers: 1 less walking range than the drone riders for a tiny bit more HP, I value that 1 extra walking range a little bit higher than the HP bonus. since they are "free" sometimes they still have a usecase.
  4. Barbarians: There HP is worse than the swordancer so the chance for them reach the enemy is a little slimmer, and while I am a huge fan of -defence special powers (a dead unit doesnt hit back) in my experience for light melee units that -20 attack power from the sworddancers seems to be more beneficial since it makes them survive that tiny little bit longer, but since you get these units for "free" sometimes, free is always better then none. only for the dog with its massive range the - defence power seems better. tho I would not mind the -att power there as well.
 

Pauly7

Magus
Thanks @CrazyWizard, very informative. In the defence of the Barbarians though (and presumably Sword Dancers, but I've never been an Elf), is that they are better all rounders for auto-fighting. Surely that has to count for something?
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
Maybe in the drone rider vs sword/barb camp yes, depending on the enemy type.

But as for a comparison to cerberus not really. that walkrage is godlike and what makes those viable.
though I had some battles this week with really poor maps (old style tournaments)

Like: strategist, mage, archer, mage, stategist
With them all behind a barrier with both strategist blocking the flanks, and the mages enough movement to hit your units.
It was the only map consitently creating autolosses vs melee units. even with a hefty HP bonus of 140%.

As long as dogs can make the moves they shred trought the enemy, but then need the space to attack.
Otherwise there are not that different from ranged units which makes them so "usable".

It's an absolute shame the production rate of the training grounds comes so late in game.
 

DeletedUser501

Enchanter
Would be great if Sorceress got another +1 range attack or range movement, like make them 4 + 4 or 5 + 3. And about the treants, I use them much more than Valorian Guards, cause valorian guards even with their +2 range attack die too fast vs cerberuses vs another HM units and also when there are some mages or LR unit involved (except vs abbots or mistwalkers), in contrast treants get better results.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
Would be great if Sorceress got another +1 range attack or range movement, like make them 4 + 4 or 5 + 3. And about the treants, I use them much more than Valorian Guards, cause valorian guards even with their +2 range attack die too fast vs cerberuses vs another HM units and also when there are some mages or LR unit involved (except vs abbots or mistwalkers), in contrast treants get better results.

It had that in the past and at that time it was consideren an overpowered godlike unit. the best in game.
You could dance to victory agains most units at that time, dogs and archers where the only enemies.

When it's range was reduced from 4 to 3 it became one of the worst.
 

Lelanya

Mentor
The sorceress needs to hit a wee bit harder, I would think, then she would be restored as a good troop. Yes her range vs movement got switched, and she was overpowering. You could take 2 trees, block terrain, and she could enspell the opposition.
I agree with the Wizard, LM from TG truly are war gods, they performed excellently this last tourney, better than LR, as they are tougher and shrug off light ranged attack.
I must point out that each troop is especially useful right after it has been upgraded. Some of us have been playing a while, we need to refresh our memory on the basics.
Honestly @JAQQ, try both races, as Anonglitch has mentioned.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
So this is why your human vs elves list is not a good representation of reality
It's only later in game when all units are unlocked where the split between production queues and proper alternative options for the humans bad units the humans become superior to the elves. but we are talking about very late game.

To be honest I don´t see much where we disagree.

LM and LR are similar ( I did indeed remember the human special ability wrong, so only the upgrades for the human LR are better, while the special ability is worse). Later in the game noone uses barrack units here anyway.
Mages and HM are better (yes especially in autofight, but you can´t assume manual battle as the standard), watching treants do autobattle is torture, if there is anything but a completely open field where everybody is rushing forward to meet them...
HR is worse.
Makes in my book an advantage for humans from the start. And instead of evening out in the long run as it used to, now the difference only gets bigger if you get to the end of the game. No I don´t say the advantage is insanely big early on, but I find it clear enough so that I personally would never start an elven town in the current game, I cannot see any part of the game where I have an advantage as an elf, but I see various places where I have a disadvantage.
 
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