• Good day, Stranger! — Are you new to our forums?

    Have I seen you here before? To participate in or to create forum discussions, you will need your own forum account. Register your account here!

Curiosity about the SoE and Tournament difficulty variables

Almondum

Spellcaster
Hello folks,

The other day I was reading about the formulas that calculate the difficulty of the Spire and Tournaments. I am a bit confused and curious, so pardon my ignorance in the remainder of the thread (casual here).

I remember that the main research nodes, number of expansions and the levels of Ancient Wonders increase the difficulty of the Spire/Tournm.
How much difficulty I am adding to my Tournament/Spire per 1 level of AW? 0.3%? 1%?
Also, for some reason, in my mind 1% bonus attack + 1% bonus HP makes up for 1% in increased difficulty (does this even make sense?)

I would like to know the values, as I have a feeling that if I invest into the economic AW levels, I will be losing out since "fighting" will eventually become too expensive, by forcing us, if we choose to fight, to use more Unit Upgrades/Unit boosters than we would use had we leveled only the military wonders that provide a direct % to damage/HP. In my mind the military wonders work like permanent boosters that offset the difficulty increase and "pay back" for their levels in a more straighforward way.

I am asking this as I feel that I have to choose between the kind of AWs to level, and that if I choose to level a mix of eco and military wonders I would be less efficient (unless a diamond spender) than choosing just 1 kind and focusing on 1 activity (catering or fighting).

Examples of wonders that I believe will make the Spire/Tourn harder without offsetting the difficulty increase directly: Blooming Guild Trader (the Bee), Enar thingie (the wooden face), Elvenar Trade Center, etc.

I am asking this as I am "freebie", I only spend once in a moon, maybe once in half a year..5 euros. The thing is, I believe the Tournament and Spire are central parts of the game, and I would like to continue doing them at later chapters, on a weekly basis.
I have been seeing my high chapter fellowship mates spending 5-6 boosters just to finish the last stage of the spire. That's seems very "unviable/unsustanable" and I would like to avoid that. There is no way to offset it by having a slightly smaller city with less wonders?
Will I be able to do the Spire until the Lab without having to spend many boosters in later chapters? Or the boosters become a must?
At present, I am at the Wood Elves and I do a mix of fights/catering until the Lab, no boosters are used (just 1 pet food for the Twilight Phoenix, no fire p. yet)

I hope my message is not too confusing, if you don't understand something let me know.
Thanks in advance,
Almond.
 

Silly Bubbles

Necromancer
There's not much of an agreement on this at this moment so all I can do is to share my personal experience with this:

I'm in Ch19, I only autofight in the Spire and get to the top easily every week, I average 2.5 k in the tournament autofighting only to save troops for the Spire. I have Golden Abyss, Mountain Halls and Monastery maxed (level 30) and I also have Sunset Towers and Simia half way through. I need 100% health boost on top of MM to get to the top of the Spire that I easily get either in the Spire or through crafting. I time the expiring boost buildings so I can do two Spires when I place them (eg I place them on Friday so I can do two Spires one on Friday and one on Monday, this way I double the use of them). Time instants aren't a problem especially when you are in a gold Spire fellowship.

This thread is very useful if you need Spire tips
.
 

Almondum

Spellcaster
Thank you very much Silly Bubbles! I see that you wisely chose only the Wonders you really want and didn't level others. I will think about it as well.
 

schadenfreude

Enchanter
I remember that the main research nodes, number of expansions and the levels of Ancient Wonders increase the difficulty of the Spire/Tournm.
It's not increasing the difficulty. It's increasing the size of stacks brought to battle and quantity of catering. The difficulty would be things like 3* troops vs 1* troops (affected by Chapter), troop type combo, or the ratio of your troops to enemy troops, which is preset and same for everyone at the same point in Spire/Tourney.

You can use MinMaxGamer's Google Spreadsheet to preview what happens if you upgrade wonders, techs, etc. It will also show the error %. If you compare the results to the actual numbers, it will be very close so it's not 100% accurate but a very good working model of what's going on.

I have been seeing my high chapter fellowship mates spending 5-6 boosters just to finish the last stage of the spire.
I finish the Spire each week, but I only use 2 buff buildings a week, 1 UUU for health and then 1 ELR/MMM depending on tourney type. It could also be your higher chapter teammates have Timewarp/Polar Bear combos and are stretching that many boosters for 2 weeks of use instead of 1. The biggest way to offset fighting and make the most difference will always be a fed level 10 Fire Phoenix :)
 

Susie49

Soothsayer
So does every upgrade of any ancient wonder effectively reduce your fighting power by the same amount, irrespective of which AW and what level?
 

MinervaOz

Enchanter
No, upgrading your AWs (or placing expansions, or completing mandatory techs) does not decrease your fighting power. It increases your squad size in the tournament and Spire, so you're bringing more troops to every fight. The ratio between your squad size and the enemy's is preset and is not affected by anything you do in the game. It has no effect on the difficulty - whether you win or lose, or what percentage of squads you lose - of individual fights. (Upgrading military wonders can of course decrease the difficulty.) A bigger squad size means you lose more troops - for instance, if the squad size is 1000 and you have a 10% loss, that's 100 troops; if the squad size is 10000 the same 10% loss means you lose 1000. You can therefore run out of troops quicker, so in that sense it makes the whole tournament or Spire more difficult. But it's more accurate to think of it as increasing the cost (catering costs are affected as well) rather than the difficulty.

In practice, most people don't notice any difference, unless you're making a lot of changes at once. It's really only when you're aiming for high tournament scores that it's noticeable and even then it's not hard to overcome (you just have to train more troops).
 

Jake65

Mentor
So does every upgrade of any ancient wonder effectively
{Insert @MinervaOz's comment here}
by the same amount, irrespective of which AW and what level

As far as I understand, yes :)
An AW level counts as 1 level in the formula regardless of the AW.
Fighting related AWs will offset some of their 'cost' increase by improving the health/attack, etc of your troops.

From my auto-fighting experience, troop selection is important. When I get defeated I will often win when I use different troops on the second attempt.
 

SkyRider99

Immortal
The ratio between your squad size and the enemy's is preset and is not affected by anything you do in the game. It has no effect on the difficulty - whether you win or lose, or what percentage of squads you lose - of individual fights. (Upgrading military wonders can of course decrease the difficulty.) A bigger squad size means you lose more troops
I am bemused by all the dozens of research items that ask me to get a bigger squad size, because according to them it will 'make my fights easier'. Balderdash and poppycock!! I just lose many more troops, and lose more encounters! The bigger my squad size, the bigger the game makes the opposing enemy forces. So why bother to offer a squad size upgrade at all ?! Oh yeah, that's right, it's so I am forced to train ever increasingly large numbers of troops to get slaughtered by the rigged enemy squads.
 

MinervaOz

Enchanter
I am bemused by all the dozens of research items that ask me to get a bigger squad size, because according to them it will 'make my fights easier'. Balderdash and poppycock!! I just lose many more troops, and lose more encounters! The bigger my squad size, the bigger the game makes the opposing enemy forces. So why bother to offer a squad size upgrade at all ?! Oh yeah, that's right, it's so I am forced to train ever increasingly large numbers of troops to get slaughtered by the rigged enemy squads.
Increasing your army camp squad size - through research - makes fighting easier in map province encounters. Since the tournament change of 2000 (I think it was) that has no effect on your squad size in tournaments or Spire. You can keep your squad size the same in those encounters by parking your city - not doing research, not placing expansions, not upgrading AWs. Some players have chosen to do that and if they're happy they'll get no argument from me. (Some tried and eventually got bored, and resumed normal gameplay.) Most decided to live with it and worked out how to compensate. Tournament scores, at least in my world, have been steadily increasing, so they seem to be succeeding.

And once more for the people at the back: wining or losing individual encounters (in tourney and Spire) has nothing whatsoever to do with your brought squad size because the ratio between you and the enemy is preset. If you're losing more battles, or even a bigger percentage of troops in a single battle, it's not because you upgraded an AW. That's due to troop choice, troop strength (in both attack and defence - the level of your troops and how many booster buildings/other boosts you have), or just bad luck - terrain or the vagaries of the AI, neither of which you can control.
 

Jake65

Mentor
That's the joy of having info stored on the forums. :)
My thought exactly!
I can't say I've tried searching for a topic on Discord but I imagine it's like trying to find someone in this crowd :eek:

QuietDayOn Discord.jpg
 
Top