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Cross tiers trade advice

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by alsael, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. alsael

    alsael Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2017
    It is a fact by now that a lot of players dislike(or even hate) cross tiers trade.Here is my advice for how to make it more appealing(this is my personal opinion,you may disagree of course):
    Forget about the games' "advice" of a fair trade,forget about the star system or which tier the goods belong to.It all comes down to quantities.The game says a fair(2 stars) trade would be 10k elixir for 40k silk for example.Will you take that trade?I won't(unless I am really desperate and in great need).
    So make the trade much more appealing:10k elixir for 15k silk,or even less.It doesn't matter which tier the good belongs to,it matters how much of that good you can produce.If I have an enormous amount of tier 3 goods(due to past event buildings) why not offering them to a close quantity to the good I want?
    Of course there is the restriction of tier1 vs tier3 goods.It can't go lower than 1:4.I hope they lift that in the future.
    You don't have to agree with me,that is just my thoughts on the matter:rolleyes:
     
    Quinoa, RainbowElvira and Pauly7 like this.
  2. Lelanya

    Lelanya Summoner

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2016
    So let's just ignore the fact that there is way too much tier3 floating around by giving away even more. I love you dearly Als but how does that fix anything? It doesn't change that we are short tier 2 (thanks all for the obsidian trades, I am raising my scrolls factories with it).
     
    alsael likes this.
  3. Crowella

    Crowella Soothsayer

    Joined:
    May 13, 2019
    On the limited occasions that I trade cross tier, I offer 1:2 tier 2:tier 1 goods, such as 1000 crystal for 2000 planks. I haven't traded tier 3 for tier 1 or tier 2, because there are just too many tier 3 goods on offer as it is.
     
  4. Pauly7

    Pauly7 Necromancer

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    I agree entirely @alsael. It's kind of what I've been saying each time this conversation frequently comes up. Remove the tier and trading star systems altogether and let people trade at whatever level they choose. I don't hate cross-tier trading at all, but it makes me roll my eyes (let's say) to see "stupid" cross tier trades, i.e. 1000 elixir for 15,990 marble (I see that a lot).

    The only problem right now for the type of trading you suggest is that it only works across one tier. To trade tier 3 for tier 1 the game still forces a minimum ratio of 4:1.
     
    sunrae, RainbowElvira and alsael like this.
  5. Rocket57

    Rocket57 Seeker

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2018
    I hate cross tier trades, (but use them occassionally). Its the one within the fellowship that annoy me the most
     
  6. tesla333

    tesla333 Spellcaster

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2019
    The problem is still not the cross tier trades but the current imbalance of the goods economy - especially the ridiculous amount of T3 goods that are thrown and players in Chapters 5 to 10 from set and event buildings.
    As for cross tier trades: If you don't like them, don't take them and don't post them. Discussing the rates between goods is just beating on the symptom and has nothing to do with the cause.
     
  7. foolfighter

    foolfighter Spellcaster

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2016
    It's not the cross-tier trading that is the problem per se, it is its consequences. I now have a couple of players who have more or less given up on T1 and T2 manufactories producing just T3 and trading for everything else. This is a great tactic saving space and costs - until everyone else decides to join in, then it falls apart. We are now trying to get some members to drop a T3 and build a T2 just to help rebalance. It's not helped with the recent set buildings being T3 producers. T1 is to a small extent replenished via the wholesaler, and T3 is in over production. It is no surprise that there is a general lack of T2 goods, and scrolls and now silk in particular seem to be in drastic shortage. We can become to a large extent self-sufficient within the FS by who we let join and asking members to boost certain productions, but outside the FS it is still a major problem needing addressing. Perhaps the next group of set buildings could be focussed on T2 goods.
     
    Lelanya likes this.
  8. Hekata

    Hekata Alchemist

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    I'm glad you brought up this topic again becasue I was just looking at my trader and got so annoyed to see that out of the 18 pages 16 are cross trades. It is becoming insufferable. My whole fellowship is doing it and even the old players from my neighbourhood who always posted good tier to tier trades are all gone cross trade now.
    I don't see how your system is sustainable. At the same level T3 makes more goods than T1 and T2 (plus there are all the event buildings producing T3). And the exchange rate is 1:4 or 1:16. Even if your fellows trade 3 stars those who have to produce T1 or T2 will have to have a lot more factories than those who have only T3. It's not really fair to them. Can you actually calculate how much T1 and T2 your FS needs to keep up with those that only have T3? I don't think it's possible because everyone needs in goods is different depending on their chapter, how fast they progress and whether they are a fighter or a trader or a bit of both.
    And why do you indulge those who only want to have T3? If I were in your FS and you'd asked me to change my factories because another fellow decided he'll only keep his T3, I'd see it as very unfair and leave :confused:
    Though the biggest mystery for me is who takes the cross-tiers trades? Why would anyone want to spend 1600 marble to get 100 gems?? Or even 1000 marbles to get 100 gems? I've asked that question before and I don't think got an answer.
    I think that Pauly has been advocating for the system where we lose the start system and the ratios and we can then all post whatever trades seems fair to us. And I agree with that. In a system with no starts no one would ever consider taking an offer at 1:16
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019 at 5:29 PM
    Pauly7 and Lelanya like this.
  9. RainbowElvira

    RainbowElvira Conjurer

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2018
    Nobody accepts these trades (well, not voluntarily - thanks to delay and jumping of offers in the app, some are still accepted). That is the reason why we see so many of them. They stay for a week before the system deletes them, as opposed to fair same tier trade that is accepted in minutes or hours. At least that's my perception.
     
  10. Killiak

    Killiak Necromancer

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2016
    I take them, but for fellows only.
     
  11. Lelanya

    Lelanya Summoner

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2016
    I do occasionally take them but only to help small neighbors who are clearly at Choke points. Or by accident.
     
    Hekata likes this.
  12. Hekata

    Hekata Alchemist

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    @RainbowElvira What you say makes sense except foolfigther says that some of his fellows have dropped their T1 and T2 because they get enough goods from trading T3, so someone does take them.

    @Killiak If a fellows asks for goods in the chat I'll take any trade he wants to help out. I take all the same tier trades that I can, but if I were to take all the cross-tier my fellows post I'd be left without T1 and T2 in 2 days. Because I'm not talking about the occasional cross tier trade, this is pages and pages of them. At least half of my trader is my FS trades.
     
  13. alsael

    alsael Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2017
    It depends on the trades.If I make 10k elixir and ask for 12k crystal,it's not that bad
     
  14. Pauly7

    Pauly7 Necromancer

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    That's good. Worth taking for most people wanting the Elixir.
     
    alsael likes this.
  15. sunrae

    sunrae Spellcaster

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    I have so many T3 now that when I cross tier trade I do like for like T3 to T2, they get taken very quickly and everyone is happy, but its frustrating to have the 1:4 limit on T3 to T1. I agree I would like the limits removed. I do like the star system as it gives a clear indication in the trader rather than having to get my calculator out thougho_O

    In a RL market it's the market itself that determines the trades and I don't see why it should be different here. Learning to trade effectively is part of the fun of the game. There is no obligation to take any trade and we have good filters now that mean you can simply search for the goods you require without having to trawl through the dozens you don't.
     
    yo momma love me likes this.
  16. Lelanya

    Lelanya Summoner

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2016
    The fact remains unaddressed: mid level players are swimming in tier3 and no one wants all that excess.
     
    RainbowElvira, m4rt1n and tesla333 like this.
  17. tesla333

    tesla333 Spellcaster

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2019
    That exactly is the cause. The rest is symptoms. And the main culprit is the Jester's Tavern.

    I'm in Chapter 7 and I receive 32K (in words: thirtytwothousand) T3 Goods every 24 hours just from Event Buildings. This is twice the amount of goods I get from 4 fully upgraded T2 factories (on a 9h plus 3x3h cycle). I have no T1, no T2 but 500K T3 goods. Each.

    Late chapter players just do not understand how much T3 we get. They were so used to being able to trade their T3s for T1 and T2 from mid-level players that most of them abandoned the general rule of 4:4:2 and are now having trouble adjusting their cities (or are unwilling to, we had a case like that. 2 pages crosstier trades every day from a single player). On top of that, even high level players get 40K-45K T3 goods from the Jester's Tavern daily.

    I'm not even willing to trade T3x1 : T2x1 anymore because I have T3 coming out of my ears.

    However, I don't want Inno to "fix" the Jester's Tavern. I'd very much prefer if players could adjust their production to accommodate the changed trade balance. Lucky for me I'm in an FS where literally everybody adapted and changed T3 factories to T1 and T2. If there is something to fix for Inno its the forced ratio and possibly implement a "hide crosstier trades" tick box.
     
    m4rt1n likes this.
  18. Hekata

    Hekata Alchemist

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    I'm not sure that's completely accurate. I have been playing this game for at least 2 and a half years now and I have never posted cross tier trades and there were very few of those on my trader. Just a few players posting them before all these buildings became available. The only time I posted cross tier was when I had a deal with a fellow who agreed to take them to help me out or when I was really in a hurry to get goods and then I'd post T3-T2 1:1, or T2-T1 1:1.

    That's not a bad offer but that's not the one I usually see. It's mostly T3 for T1 at 1: 10 ratio.

    IRL the value of things is mostly determent by how rare they are. Diamonds are more rare than copper or wood so it's more valuable. In the game we get more T3 form a level 24 factory than T1 from a factory the same level. So it makes no sense for the ratio to be 1:16. For that ratio to work the T1 would have to produce 16x more goods than the T3. Ofc no one forces us to accept those trades we don't like, but when your trader has 16 pages of T3 for T1 at least a 1:10 ratio it becomes a problem. No one wants to work their way to get the goods, everyone wants to get more than they produce and to free as much space as they can by selling T1 and T2. But that system will collapse when everyone starts doing the same thing as foolfighter said. Plus current filters can be used to target a specific good you want but not the cross tier offer. If Inno added that kind of filter it wouldn't solve the real issue but it would make the trader a more pleasant place for a lot of us.
     
    pompeywolf likes this.
  19. alsael

    alsael Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2017
    I guess there is still the ratio between goods,because it is more expensive in materials+time to built a T3 factory than a T1.And that WAS the case back then.But now,with the additional T3 sources,I would say that there is no need for any ratio restrictions.Let us trade as a totally free marketeers.:rolleyes:
     
  20. Flame Knight

    Flame Knight Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2019
    Not really, as it makes no sense either to only compare the two factories with each other. You should take into account the requirements for workshops, residences, culture and roads. Only then you know the output per square.
     

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