• Good day, Stranger! — Are you new to our forums?

    Have I seen you here before? To participate in or to create forum discussions, you will need your own forum account. Register your account here!

Cross-Tier Trades

Silly Bubbles

Illusionist
if someone takes them then both parties have concluded it's a fair trade, regardless of what anyone else thinks about it.

This is exactly what I'm trying to say. Also, logically the opposite is true too. If nobody takes that trade, it's an unfair trade because it's only one sided.
 

Sir Derf

Immortal
Question: Is every trade an unfair trade when first posted, as it has not yet been accepted?
Question: Is a trade an unfair trade if the first player who is shown the trade does not take it?
Question: How many players need to not accept a trade before it is considered unfair?
Question: How long does a trade need to be unaccepted before it is considered unfair?

Question: How do you rate a 100,000 for 99,999 trade that a player sees every day for 6 days and ignores because what is offered wasn't needed, but that same player accepts on day 7, because he has now researched an upgrade that needs the offered resource? Was the trade unfair for 6 days, and then suddenly became fair?

Question: How do you rate a 10 for 5 trade taken in 10 minutes versus a 10,000,000 for 5,000,000 trade not taken for a week?
Question, How do you rate 10 trades, each for 1,000,000 for 500,000, each taken in under an hour by 10 different people, versus a 10,000,000 for 5,000,000 trade not taken for a week?

Question: How do you rate a 10 for 5 trade taken in 10 minutes versus a 10,000,000 for 2,000,000 trade not taken for a week?
Question, How do you rate 10 trades, each for 1,000,000 for 500,000, each taken in under an hour by 10 different people, versus a 10,000,000 for 2,000,000 trade not taken for a week?
 

m4rt1n

Immortal
Question: Is every trade an unfair trade when first posted, as it has not yet been accepted?
Question: Is a trade an unfair trade if the first player who is shown the trade does not take it?
Question: How many players need to not accept a trade before it is considered unfair?
Question: How long does a trade need to be unaccepted before it is considered unfair?

Question: How do you rate a 100,000 for 99,999 trade that a player sees every day for 6 days and ignores because what is offered wasn't needed, but that same player accepts on day 7, because he has now researched an upgrade that needs the offered resource? Was the trade unfair for 6 days, and then suddenly became fair?

Question: How do you rate a 10 for 5 trade taken in 10 minutes versus a 10,000,000 for 5,000,000 trade not taken for a week?
Question, How do you rate 10 trades, each for 1,000,000 for 500,000, each taken in under an hour by 10 different people, versus a 10,000,000 for 5,000,000 trade not taken for a week?

Question: How do you rate a 10 for 5 trade taken in 10 minutes versus a 10,000,000 for 2,000,000 trade not taken for a week?
Question, How do you rate 10 trades, each for 1,000,000 for 500,000, each taken in under an hour by 10 different people, versus a 10,000,000 for 2,000,000 trade not taken for a week?


Lots of questions there @Sir Derf I can only say in my game, all trades are fair, if I need them I take them, if I don't I leave them for another player who may. If trades sit and expire after the 7 days maybe the player who makes them needs to rebalance slightly but still the trades are not unfair as the game allows them to be placed.
 

Silly Bubbles

Illusionist
Question: Is every trade an unfair trade when first posted, as it has not yet been accepted?
Question: Is a trade an unfair trade if the first player who is shown the trade does not take it?
Question: How many players need to not accept a trade before it is considered unfair?
Question: How long does a trade need to be unaccepted before it is considered unfair?

Question: How do you rate a 100,000 for 99,999 trade that a player sees every day for 6 days and ignores because what is offered wasn't needed, but that same player accepts on day 7, because he has now researched an upgrade that needs the offered resource? Was the trade unfair for 6 days, and then suddenly became fair?

Question: How do you rate a 10 for 5 trade taken in 10 minutes versus a 10,000,000 for 5,000,000 trade not taken for a week?
Question, How do you rate 10 trades, each for 1,000,000 for 500,000, each taken in under an hour by 10 different people, versus a 10,000,000 for 5,000,000 trade not taken for a week?

Question: How do you rate a 10 for 5 trade taken in 10 minutes versus a 10,000,000 for 2,000,000 trade not taken for a week?
Question, How do you rate 10 trades, each for 1,000,000 for 500,000, each taken in under an hour by 10 different people, versus a 10,000,000 for 2,000,000 trade not taken for a week?

I rate every trade that is not taken unfair. Of course, there's a lot of tiny details to the mechanics that I'll leave up to you to decide. Have fun!
 

Sir Derf

Immortal
Except it is not a simple opposite.

What does it mean to take a trade (what you define as "fair")?
  1. Right now I have what is being asked for...
  2. ...AND right now I want what is being offered....
  3. ...AND right now I accept the exchange rate being offered.
What does it mean to not take a trade (what you think you define as being "unfair")?
  1. Right now I don't have what is being asked for...
  2. ...OR Right now I don't want what is being offered...
  3. ...OR Right now I don't accept the exchange rate being offered.
 

m4rt1n

Immortal
@Sir Derf to put it simply a fair trade is in the opinion of the player, if you deem a certain trade unfair, just don't take it, it has no impact on your game whatsoever. :)

Also it would be nice if you didn't shout with bold caps, I understand and/or without them, thank you, appreciated.
 

Sir Derf

Immortal
Sorry for that, I'm used to writing logical operators (as opposed to normal English conjunctions) in all caps, so I don't see that as emphasis, and thus saw the bold as emphasis, and not double emphasis shouting.
 

Sir Derf

Immortal
I am Marble boost. Does that mean that nearly every trade offering Marble is automatically unfair, from my point of view? After all, I almost never accept a trade offering Marble...

If there are 10 identical 1,000 Steel for 1,000 Planks offers posted, and I accept 5 until I run out of Planks, were those 5 fair and the other 5 unfair?
If there are 10 identical 1,000 Steel for 1,000 Planks offers posted, and I accept 5 because I only needed 5,000 Steel, were those 5 fair and the other 5 unfair?
 

Sir Derf

Immortal
If 10 people simultaneously each post identical 1,000,000 Platinum for 1,000,000 Gum trades (visible to all players), and 5 are accepted in the course of a week, while the other 5 go unaccepted over the same week, were 5 of those players being fair and 5 of those being unfair?

This simple equating of "accepted=fair, not accepted = unfair", just doesn't sound, well, fair...
 

m4rt1n

Immortal
If a trade can be placed as per Inno rules of 8:1 minimum then it is acceptable to the game, I really don't understand your issue over this to be honest, if you don't like a trade, just ignore it and continue with your game.
 

Silly Bubbles

Illusionist
@Sir Derf What is fair to you is your personal opinion there's no point arguing about that. What is fair trade is a different issue. For a trade to be taken you need TWO players to have the same opinion on the fairness of the transaction. Fair trade means that two players agreed that it's fair.
Sorry I don't know how to explain it any better, so I'm out.
 

Sir Derf

Immortal
Goofus and Gallant each post 1,000,000 Platinum for 1,000,000 Gum trades.

Both of these trades are identical. Are these both Fair trades? Both Unfair trades? One of each? Can't be determined?

I want 1,000,000 Platinum. I don't want 2,000,000 Platinum.
I have over 1,000,000 Gum. I don't have over 2,000,000 Gum.
I am happy with a 1:1 exchange rate.

Both of these identical trades are acceptable to me. Are these both Fair Trades? Both Unfair Trades? One of Each? Can't be determined?

On day 1, I accept Gallant's trade. I don't accept Goofus's trade.

Gallant's trade, since it was accepted, was a Fair Trade?
Goofus's identical trade, since it was not accepted, was it an Unfair trade? Or can't be determined?

By the end of day 7, no one accepted Goofus's trade.

Goofus's identical trade, since it was never accepted, was an Unfair trade?
 

Silly Bubbles

Illusionist
Goofus's identical trade, since it was never accepted, was an Unfair trade?

Goofus should've been nicer to you! :p:D
Supply demand rules. Once the supply exceeds the demand, the situation changes and prices need to change. Poor Goofus's got a bad luck and needs to reduce the price for this trade to be taken, in other words, for someone else to find it fair. Again, just because one person finds it fair, it doesn't mean that someone else will. Kapish?
 
Cross-tier trades are not "unfair" IMHO - they just have a different exchange rate, like money in the real world. An unfair trade IMHO is where players offer LESS than the going rate of goods for the same number of received goods eg: you usually get 15K T2 goods if you offer 10K of T3 (or vice versa) so if you offered say 10K of T2 for 10K of T3 that's "unfair". But some FSs allow that for new players who need to develop their cities.

At the end of the day, nobody is forced to accept any trade, so if you don't like cross-tier trades you can just ignore them - but don't try and get them banned please! :)
 

m4rt1n

Immortal
@Sir Derf Trades are for the player to accept.

Say I have a hotdog stand and those cost me £3 to produce, I sell some to a friend for £2, and some to passers by for £4 and eat some myself at £3, that business would fail, yet they are "fair" in your examples.

If players want to profit on their trades, just ignore them and let them play their game, as I say again, you don't have to take them, it doesn't affect your game in any way.

This is also only a game, just take the trades that suit you and let every one else enjoy the fantasy of Elvenar when picking their trades...
 

Silly Bubbles

Illusionist
At the end of the day, nobody is forced to accept any trade, so if you don't like cross-tier trades you can just ignore them - but don't try and get them banned please! :)

I don't think they'll ban them because sometimes it's the only way to get certain goods. I'm scrolls boosted and there was no way I could trade scrolls when there was imbalance due to Moonstone Libraries. Luckily, they changed cross trades ratio shortly after I started this city. I had to trade my steel to get crystal and silk and that was costly. At the end, I traded my sentient T3 to get obsidian and used decay to get crystal out of it.

There might be some change to reduce the amount of trades people make as there's complaints about spamming. I like to help small players in my neighborhood and it takes too much scrolling through trades that nobody wants anyway to find small trades and help newbies. Over 20 clicks to scroll through the trades and then more to accept multiples of small trades when someone makes 40 of them. I would help so much more if it wasn't that intensive.
 

Sir Derf

Immortal
I put it to you that these definitions of "accepted=fair" and "unaccepted=unfair" are useless. It provides no insight to the person posting a trade, and it produces inconsistent and incongruous labeling of both accepted and unaccepted trades.

Yes, there are accepted "fair" trades and skipped "unfair" trades.

However...

To my mind, players can unhappily take "unfair" trades, accepting negatively unbalanced ratios because of extreme needs of the offered goods.
To my mind, players can unhappily skip "fair" trades, forgoing positively balanced ratios because of lack of the requested goods.
To my mind, players can unhappily skip "fair" trades, forgoing positively balanced ratios because of extreme needs of the requested goods.

Accepted != Fair.
Unaccepted != Unfair.
 

Silly Bubbles

Illusionist
I put it to you that these definitions of "accepted=fair" and "unaccepted=unfair" are useless. It provides no insight to the person posting a trade, and it produces inconsistent and incongruous labeling of both accepted and unaccepted trades.

Yes, there are accepted "fair" trades and skipped "unfair" trades.

However...

To my mind, players can unhappily take "unfair" trades, accepting negatively unbalanced ratios because of extreme needs of the offered goods.
To my mind, players can unhappily skip "fair" trades, forgoing positively balanced ratios because of lack of the requested goods.
To my mind, players can unhappily skip "fair" trades, forgoing positively balanced ratios because of extreme needs of the requested goods.

Accepted != Fair.
Unaccepted != Unfair.

Yep, fully agree. Unfortunately, that's how the communication goes here. The terms "fair trades" and "unfair trades" are used a lot while there's a various understanding of it. That's why I'm referring to the definition of fair and trade to clarify it so we at least start talking about the same thing. This way we can actually get to the root cause of the problems and then it's much easier to solve it.

EDIT: It's actually easier to understand the concept of "accepted" vs "unaccepted". Unfortunately, language has it's limitation and it depends on our interpretation of it while we can actually mean the same thing.
I'd also try to fully understand what we're talking about before trying to dispute it, it makes it much easier and it's more gentle on ego.
 
Last edited:
Top