Completing army upgrades research (the book)

[Lady Monica]

Hi

I would like thoughts about completing army upgrades in research . I have upgraded my armies and have completed all as I go. I have not skipped an upgrade. Some of my team believe that the more you upgrade the harder it is to fight. Therefore you dont need to complete the upgrades as you go. I dont see that as why have the upgrades if you dont need to do them? Would like some thoughts please

 

[cwgiii]

There are a few threads discussing this topic. Please see the link below for an example:

https://en.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/squad-sizes-and-fairness.10691/#post-63418

Basically, Squad Size upgrades increase the difficulty of fighting in tournaments, specifically. (if memory serves)

 

[Deleted User - 1759805]

Basically, Squad Size upgrades increase the difficulty of fighting in tournaments, specifically. (if memory serves)

Not quite. The difficulty in tournaments stays the same, but higher SS means both you and the enemy bring more troops to tournament fights, which means total losses in number of units will be higher. And these higher losses would be more difficult (more time/resources) to recover.

 

[FieryArien]

Also catering cost of tournament raises with each squad size upgrades. So after you run out of troops, because you can’t keep up with higher loses* (explained above), you’ll need to invest more goods* to get through the provinces.

*compared to person who took less squad size upgrades

 

[DeletedUser8409]

Not quite. The difficulty in tournaments stays the same, but higher SS means both you and the enemy bring more troops to tournament fights, which means total losses in number of units will be higher. And these higher losses would be more difficult (more time/resources) to recover.

That makes the tournament harder since the more squads you can train the easier the tournament is across the 6 rounds of the tournament.

An individual battle isn't harder but the tournament is more than just an individual battle.

 

[DeletedUser1829]

That makes the tournament harder since the more squads you can train the easier the tournament is across the 6 rounds of the tournament.

No it doesn't, it makes them more costly. The difficulty is a function of the squad size and that ratio changes every round. It is why round 6 is more difficult than round 1. Whether you have a squad size of 1,000 or 2,000 or 3,000 the difficulty is a fixed amount for each round. Similar concept with world map province difficulty ratings.

If for example you can't win when the enemy outnumbers you, then you are never going to get past the third round no matter how many troops you bring.

 

[DeletedUser8409]

No it doesn't, it makes them more costly. The difficulty is a function of the squad size and that ratio changes every round. It is why round 6 is more difficult than round 1. Whether you have a squad size of 1,000 or 2,000 or 3,000 the difficulty is a fixed amount for each round. Similar concept with world map province difficulty ratings.

If for example you can't win when the enemy outnumbers you, then you are never going to get past the third round no matter how many troops you bring.

Both are elements of difficulty.

If you are seeking 2000 points and can do that for the loss of 250 squads over the week then if you are able to train 300 squads per week that is easy. If you are able to train 200 squads per week that is hard.

Free squads via AWs like SSS, Pyramid, Strategists Grounds etc make the tournament easier even if individual battles are not easier.

 

[valle]

What many seems to forget is that you will get more troops from your AWs when your squadsize is bigger. If you got a lot of AWs producing troops at high level the amount of extra troops shouldn't be ignored.
Also your troop production queue is longer with bigger squadsizes, reducing time when the barracks are idle due to not beeing able to get into the game before the queue runs out.

 

[Heymrdiedier]

What many seems to forget is that you will get more troops from your AWs when your squadsize is bigger. If you got a lot of AWs producing troops at high level the amount of extra troops shouldn't be ignored.
Also your troop production queue is longer with bigger squadsizes, reducing time when the barracks are idle due to not beeing able to get into the game before the queue runs out.

first, your troop production queue doesnt get longer when you research a bigger squadsize. It only gets longer if you get a higher training size (more barracks or similar wonders).
second, its true you get more units from your unit producing AW, but those wonders became a bit less usefull with the coming of the brown bear. The amount of troops you can get out of those AW is low if you compare it with the effect of 1 brown bear and full trained queue.
and third, if you like tournaments, then you know that in 4 of the 6 fights you fight against and enemy with higher numbers then yours.
Lets take prov 20 for an example since that one is 100% your strenght.
So say your troop size grows with 100, that means in
round 1 the enemy gets 85 more units, round 2 the enemy gets 100 more, round 3 115, round 4 130 round 5 145 and finally round 6 160. So all rounds combined, you gained 600 more units, while the enemy gained 735. you have to multiply that with 5 since we fight with 5 troops (so 3000 vs 3675) and that you again have to multiply with 4 since it takes 4 fights for 1 province so 12000 vs 14700.
If you did 20 provinces, like we did in this example, then you have to multiply that number with 10, so in that case u used 120k units vs 147k units. And every province after 20 its gets a lot more expensive (like if you do 35 provinces, then you have do not x10 but x31)
And thats only for an increase of your SS of 100, now say you go for all out, and end up with about a squadsize of 3500. That means you would need 420k units for 20 provinces, while you fight 514,5K enemy units.

 

[valle]

first, your troop production queue doesnt get longer when you research a bigger squadsize. It only gets longer if you get a higher training size (more barracks or similar wonders).

I think you are wrong here, I've noticed that my barrack training time increases when I unlock a squad size upgrade.

second, its true you get more units from your unit producing AW, but those wonders became a bit less usefull with the coming of the brown bear. The amount of troops you can get out of those AW is low if you compare it with the effect of 1 brown bear and full trained queue.

More free troops are always good.

and third, if you like tournaments, then you know that in 4 of the 6 fights you fight against and enemy with higher numbers then yours.

I only do the first 10 - 20 to level 5 or 6. Then I do the rest to level 2 to get the 5kp. That way most of the fights are against smaller and equal number of enemy troops. My aim is to get as much kp for as small cost as possible. I don't care for tournament score as it's good for nothing.

 

[DeletedUser3571]

Your barracks training time probably increases because you have the dwarven bulwark (DB), as the DB increases training size based on your squad size.

 

[Killiak]

Your barracks training time probably increases because you have the dwarven bulwark (DB), as the DB increases training size based on your squad size.

Behold, Rocket Science!


I can imagine that once people have multiple Ancient Wonders, each tying in to so many different game-stats, that it gets difficult to know and/or figure out where each bonus comes from.

 

[Deleted User - 1759805]

I can imagine that once people have multiple Ancient Wonders, each tying in to so many different game-stats, that it gets difficult to know and/or figure out where each bonus comes from.

That's why you have tooltips (in the browser version)...

 

[Killiak]

That's why you have tooltips (in the browser version)...

You assume people read tooltips and the like?

 

[valle]

Yes I see now it's Dwarven Bulwark that gives the longer build queues. But that's not changing my point as almost everybody after dwarves (no troop building AWs before) doing a lot of troop building should have one. So unlocking squad size upgrades will for the vast majority increase build queue length and making it easier to have the queue running 24/7.

 

[DeletedUser1829]

What many seems to forget is that you will get more troops from your AWs when your squadsize is bigger. If you got a lot of AWs producing troops at high level the amount of extra troops shouldn't be ignored.
Also your troop production queue is longer with bigger squadsizes, reducing time when the barracks are idle due to not beeing able to get into the game before the queue runs out.

It also makes world map provinces easier, depending on your strategy it can make them very easy bordering on free (in combination with wonders and such)

 

[DeletedUser8409]

Yes I see now it's Dwarven Bulwark that gives the longer build queues. But that's not changing my point as almost everybody after dwarves (no troop building AWs before) doing a lot of troop building should have one. So unlocking squad size upgrades will for the vast majority increase build queue length and making it easier to have the queue running 24/7.

Almost everyone after Dwarves should be able to keep barracks running 24/7 either way.

Anyway running your queue for longer just to get to the same spot isn't a boost, its neutrality. Whereas if you run your AW 24/7 then you lose, so there is a potential loss but no benefit.

Increased SS hurts Tournament but helps clearing World Map Provinces. Since Tournament is vastly, vastly, vastly more important than World Map Provinces it is a negative.