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Question Bulwark vs Shrewdy

Fligigel

Fligigel

Conjurer
Edit:
The old information I've found on the forum suggests Shrewdy Shrooms is related to armory levels. But I'm looking at mine now, and it's identical to a Bulwark, but producing extra archers, rather than light melee. I've been trying to get rid of my armories, and the old version of Shrewdy would be a hindrance to that strategy. Both Bulwark and Shrewdy now say they are dependant on squad size.
 
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SunriseBuilder

SunriseBuilder

Illusionist
Fligigel said:
All the information I've found on Shrewdy suggests it's related to armories, which I was trying to get rid of, but my unlocked Shrewdy says it's identical to Bulwark. Both say they are related to squad size, and the bonus numbers are identical. Shrewdy produces archers, though.

I'm wondering if it's something I haven't unlocked, due to not having enough armories. When I poke around on the research entry, it also has Bulwark numbers and squad size. It does seem like they changed it.
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I always assumed they were both related to the Training Grounds building, the difference being that Shrewdy produces Light Ranged units whereas Bulwark produces Light Melee. My Bulwark gives more ranking points, if such things bother you. If you are getting rid of armouries, presumably it's because you cater/negotiate rather than fighting, so why are you interested in either AW?
 
Fligigel

Fligigel

Conjurer
Armories have a small effect compared to Bulwark and Shrewdy. They also consume loads of culture, which is needed for supplies and gold generation.

My understanding is that barracks controls the speed of troop production and armories are a luxury that helps you login less. The Training Grounds and Merc Camp can both invisibly use the armories (and Bulwark/Shrewdy) without causing any collision congestion.

But with the introduction of Orc production in chapter 8, the armory actually does something, albeit trivial. I suspect that the armories may start doing something more in later chapters.
 
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Jake65

Jake65

Mentor
They both increase training size based on your squad size, not related to your armouries as such, just having a similar effect.
My Bulwark was maxed for a long time before I built the Shrooms purely to increase my training size, the troop production is a 'nice to have' side effect.
I've got two armouries to boost my required culture but they don't bring much in terms of training size. Armoury level43 =1200, Bulwark level35 = 18200.
Orc production of an armoury is okay although orc nests produce more stinkys per tile than an armoury.
 
SunriseBuilder

SunriseBuilder

Illusionist
Thanks to both Fligigel and Jake65. I hadn't appreciated the issues with Armouries. I have both Bulwark and Shrewdy and also 4 armouries. I will get rid of some armouries and see how it affects my game. Do you know whether, if you teleport an armoury, you keep your upgrade level if you later bring it back?
 
Pauly7

Pauly7

Manipulator of Matter
As @Jake65 says, they are essentially the same. Both increase training size and produce troops as a percentage of your current squad size. All the costs and outputs are similar. The majority of people prefer Shrooms over Bulwark, due to the fact that Light Ranged troops are much more useful than Light Melee. If just building one I would have Shrooms for that reason.

Whether you need one or both or neither is largely driven by your attitude to armouries. If you are the sort of player who is going for high ranking points by flooding your city with armouries then you'd need neither of the AWs. If, (like me) you go as small as possible on armoury numbers, then you will likely want both. Currently mine are both at level 25. Due to the increasing costs of the highest levels of AWs it is more efficient to do this than to max one and have the other at a lower level. Or alternatively, if you are between the two models, i.e you have a few armouries but not lots, then you may wish to only have one of the AWs. If you only need to upgrade one of them to level 25 to give you the training size you need then I would keep Shrooms and not bother with the Bulwark.
 
Fligigel

Fligigel

Conjurer
Great. I will just keep one or less armories around, for good looks. A lot of my workshops and armories are hanging around in teleport land, at various levels. Occasionally, you get quests to upgrade or produce a Bunch of Orcs. They just take so long to make.

I will upgrade Bulwark and Shrewdy to the same level, because all wonders suffer from limited returns as you upgrade. A new Shrewdy will give me 182, and upgrading Bulwark will give me 63 or less.

As for the troops, I sure prefer archers if they are boosted 40% by Needles. My light melee has been piling up, so I'm using them as a canon fodder wall of 5, on the Spire, which works more often than you would think, and creates who-cares-losses if you get it wrong. Losses are needed on Spire.
 
Pauly7

Pauly7

Manipulator of Matter
I have 2 armouries. One is from the current chapter and one is from the previous chapter. As I say, both Wonders are at level 25 and I have a 15 hour training queue. I was thinking, though, that I will shortly want to put a few levels on. I think I was considering the Shellux effect in my calculation.
 
Romilly

Romilly

Scholar
Fligigel said:
All the information I've found on Shrewdy suggests it's related to armories, which I was trying to get rid of, but my locked Shrewdy says it's identical to Bulwark. Both say they are related to squad size, and the bonus numbers are identical. Shrewdy produces bonus archers, though, instead of light melee.

I'm wondering if it's something I haven't unlocked, due to not having enough armories. When I poke around on the research entry, it also has Bulwark numbers and squad size. It does seem like they changed it.
Click to expand...
...yes - it's because that changed with the big wonder update 2024 - since then, both wonders have been working according to the same specifications - since the shrooms were previously tied to the number of armory levels - they had more influence before - but the researched squad size, on which both wonders now depend, has increased significantly in the last chapters - so the number of armories hardly plays a role anymore...
 
Fligigel

Fligigel

Conjurer
Romilly said:
...yes - it's because that changed with the big wonder update 2024 - since then, both wonders have been working according to the same specifications - since the shrooms were previously tied to the number of armory levels - they had more influence before - but the researched squad size, on which both wonders now depend, has increased significantly in the last chapters - so the number of armories hardly plays a role anymore...
Click to expand...

I thought Shrewdy must have changed. One of the big ones was Martian Monastry having its culture removed. And the requirements for RR every rune level.
 
SunriseBuilder

SunriseBuilder

Illusionist
Fligigel said:
I thought Shrewdy must have changed. One of the big ones was Martian Monastry having its culture removed. And the requirements for RR every rune level.
Click to expand...
My Martian monster still gives culture. I get 189k at level 21. Or am I misunderstanding something?
 
Romilly

Romilly

Scholar
...Basically, all wonders have changed - many are now tied to other things (e.g. squad size) and generally all are now more effective in the lower middle levels and then hardly get any better in the last levels - due to the new upgrade costs, many have become expensive, but you no longer have to upgrade that much to have the same wonder power as before...
 
SkyRider99

SkyRider99

Magus
Romilly said:
due to the new upgrade costs, many have become expensive, but you no longer have to upgrade that much to have the same wonder power as before...
Click to expand...
Yeah, I have a few AWs that I will be leaving at around L15 or L20. It's not worth the pain of upgrading the blighters in order to obtain a small additional benefit.

There is a small, select handful that I'm in the process of getting to L35 though. ;)
 
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