Beta - perks and net0 / 0 sum

[FieryArien]

I haven't looked at the perks - no idea what they include, but how do you think this will effect 0 sums?

Hi there. I think I have to take the perks discussion into beta area, so here’s my reply.

One of the new perks gives you free KP every day (1 at level 1 and 10 at level 10) which you can invest into wonder of some player in your fellowship. You can’t use it on your wonder and it’s only valid one day - if you don’t use it, it disappears.

However in the 0 sum system there isn’t enough opportunities to easily incorporate such free KP(s). If you activate this perk and don’t want these points to go to waste, you have to come up with some additional system for distributing them. That totally kills the ease of use of the 0 sum system.

 

[Alcaro]

in Beta we paired up but .. I have my reserves about Net0 and KP Perks.

 

[OldHag]

One of the new perks gives you free KP every day (1 at level 1 and 10 at level 10) which you can invest into wonder of some player in your fellowship. You can’t use it on your wonder and it’s only valid one day - if you don’t use it, it disappears.

However in the 0 sum system there isn’t enough opportunities to easily incorporate such free KP(s). If you activate this perk and don’t want these points to go to waste, you have to come up with some additional system for distributing them. That totally kills the ease of use of the 0 sum system.

Thanks very much @FieryArien - I guess it's time to make a plan

 

[Turing]

in Beta we paired up but .. I have my reserves about Net0 and KP Perks.

I presume you mean that you donated the perk KP to each other. But were you using Net0? If so, how did you cope when people started donating under net0 and there was a random 18kp (say) already in there?

 

[FieryArien]

I presume you mean that you donated the perk KP to each other. But were you using Net0? If so, how did you cope when people started donating under net0 and there was a random 18kp (say) already in there?

That’s easily solved when the pair takes each other’s top chest as the very first step before starting to place the free KPs. That means the free KPs go above or in addition to the net0 system.

I’m curious if Alcaro actually implements even different system.

 

[Turing]

That’s easily solved when the pair takes each other’s top chest as the very first step before starting to place the free KPs. That means the free KPs go above or in addition to the net0 system.

It's a good plan. What happens to the 25th person, however? And presumably the timing is somewhat important - once your partner has finished filling the top chest they can't easily place any more free kp?

 

[FieryArien]

What happens to the 25th person, however?

There can be a triple instead of a pair. ;-) The 1st donates to the 2nd, the 2nd to the 3rd, the 3rd to the 1st.

And presumably the timing is somewhat important - once your partner has finished filling the top chest they can't easily place any more free kp?

I think I don’t understand the question, but I try explaining this way: If the partner’s top chest is worth 55 KP, you first place 55 KP from your storage (that’s the 0 sums part). Then you put your daily free KPs every day there (free bonus). If the wonder gets too close to finish, the partner tells you what’s their next wonder and you proceed with the same system: fill the top chest and then start putting the daily free KP there.

 

[Turing]

I think I don’t understand the question, but I try explaining this way: If the partner’s top chest is worth 55 KP, you first place 55 KP from your storage (that’s the 0 sums part). Then you put your daily free KPs every day there (free bonus). If the wonder gets too close to finish, the partner tells you what’s their next wonder and you proceed with the same system: fill the top chest and then start putting the daily free KP there.

Ah, I'd thought you meant that the free KP was part of the 55. Ie they started adding the "free" KP from 0, and then when the wonder was called they topped up what more was needed to get to 55. This way is more robust. It does need people paired who are going to be equally reliable at donating daily, as the benefit accrues to the recipient.

 

[Alcaro]

Tbh, I don't care enough about those KP (in Beta) and the Net0 isn't satisfying me either, so I just donate those bonus KP and we will see in the future. My first chest is bigger than my partner's. I thought also what will be with the difference .. but I stopped thinking since it will become a nuisance and I can't change anything.
I am just happy that in my FS from En2 we use WS system (from May 2020) and I wouldn't change it for anything in this (Elvenar) world. When we will get the KP Perks (even though our 1st preference is the Spire pool) nobody in my FS will even bother to think what to do with them. We will just donate them like we usually do.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

Isn't their already enough chests available in the FS to still use New0? Instead of using perk KPs to give extra KPs on top of the chest value, is it possible to just use them to fill in all the current available chests in the preferred AWs of all fellows. For example, my MH has 265 KPs in chests available and there's another 24 fellows with theirs. When there's 250 of perk KPs available to donate per day then it takes roughly 25 days to do 25 AWs and that's heaps of time for people to upgrade and start needing new chests. Just wondering.

 

[FieryArien]

Isn't their already enough chests available in the FS to still use New0? Instead of using perk KPs to give extra KPs on top of the chest value, is it possible to just use them to fill in all the current available chests in the preferred AWs of all fellows. For example, my MH has 265 KPs in chests available and there's another 24 fellows with theirs. When there's 250 of perk KPs available to donate per day then it takes roughly 25 days to do 25 AWs and that's heaps of time for people to upgrade and start needing new chests. Just wondering.

How you donate the free KPs is simply your/your fellowship’s choice. There is no such thing as the “best for all”. My comments were from the “how to do it, if the goal is no disruption for net0” point of view. If yours is different, then you’ll be filling the chests with free KPs, of course. Just two remarks, because it seems to me, you weren’t experimenting with KP perk on Beta or German severs:
1) Those 250 points you use in your example (10 per player) correspond with perk’s 10th level. That will take quite some time to achieve.
2) The points are spend in bulk, you can’t give 5 points here and 5 points elsewhere, because there is just one button donating all.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

How you donate the free KPs is simply your/your fellowship’s choice. There is no such thing as the “best for all”. My comments were from the “how to do it, if the goal is no disruption for net0” point of view. If yours is different, then you’ll be filling the chests with free KPs, of course. Just two remarks, because it seems to me, you weren’t experimenting with KP perk on Beta or German severs:
1) Those 250 points you use in your example (10 per player) correspond with perk’s 10th level. That will take quite some time to achieve.
2) The points are spend in bulk, you can’t give 5 points here and 5 points elsewhere, because there is just one button donating all.

Thank you, I'll see how it goes once it's live. In theory, if my very rough calc is correct, there should be no problem to still use Net0 even when perks are released. I did try to look at the worst case scenario.
What I was thinking that fellows can fill in any chests available in any fellows AW as there are 24 fellows available and there (in theory) shouldn't be a problem to find a free chest and slowly top it up. Of course fellows need to watch out not to kick each other out of chests. Rather than fill the chests when the AW is close to finishing, they could be filled any time with the perk KPs.