• Good day, Stranger! — Are you new to our forums?

    Have I seen you here before? To participate in or to create forum discussions, you will need your own forum account. Register your account here!

Behind the Scenes: Battle Redesign

DeletedUser2571

Guest
Seriously the battle pentagon is not useful at all. Units that can take a hit cant deliver damage. Units with some advantages are too fragile.

Oh yes there is the AW that boosts the light units but it is USELESS

That's called balance o_O
 

DeletedUser363

Guest
There is no balance so far in the battle redesign, there is no ability to even win a tournament by fighting so what's the point?
 

DeletedUser2571

Guest
I've won plenty tournament fights this week. It is less easy then it used to be, so losses are somewhat higher, but tournaments are perfectly doable imho.

But the pentagon does require to have access to all trooptypes.
A player who doesnt have heavy ranged units will struggle vs. light melee. But the mortar is halfway through tier 3. So untill then, some battles will be very hard indeed. Same goes for magic units vs heavy melee; the sorceress is on tier 3 too.
Im under the impression that distrinution of trooptypes in the provinces do not take this into account; or at least insufficiently.
 

DeletedUser363

Guest
Tournaments are not winnable in the slightest if you are one Inno want to handicap the most, and the pentagon doesn't have all the opposition. It's useless to those Inno is insistant are not to win fights any more
 

DeletedUser1829

Guest
But the pentagon does require to have access to all trooptypes.
It definitely helps but isn't essential for starting players. It does mean you lose more troops but fights are still winnable. Beta player have pushed hard on the fights in the early provinces to be addressed which Inno said they were looking into. I suspect there is limits to troop types they can offer as these are now very much tied to a province type. One would expect they could address squad size for the player to have a quantity advantage due to a quality disadvantage. However it is also possible squad sizes by rings are all interconnected and tweaking one could exponentially effect the others, depends how it was designed.

Tournaments are not winnable in the slightest if you are one Inno want to handicap the most

I assume you are referring to people with 250+ provinces, if so could you expand on your comment above please? Do you have squad size information from tournament levels? I am curious to learn the mechanics and was not aware that scouted provinces impacts your squad size in tournaments. Enemy squad sizes are fixed based on a ratio, so I would have expected tournament fights to be fairly similar for players in similar locations on the tech tree. My understanding is that province exploration does impact negotiations in tournaments though.
 

DeletedUser363

Guest
Do you have squad size information from tournament levels?
I have stopped even looking at the tournaments having been unable to win one by fighting since the change. I will also not negotiate them unless desperate for runes, if I am going to waste goods I may as well waste them clearing more provinces...just what Inno doesn't want me to do...but if I don't I will not be able to fill the available spaces they have given for expansions until 2 races after the wood elves.

I am not the only person that has found they cannot win tournaments now...some have a lot less than 250 provinces cleared.
 

DeletedUser1829

Guest
I have stopped even looking at the tournaments having been unable to win one by fighting since the change.

If your willing to try a test, next tournament for the first province fight with 5 of the key units, auto or manual and see how you go. Strategy is more complex then that of course so it wont work every fight but so far that has been enough to get people started. Your squads have a 20% size bonus over the enemy in the first round.
 

DeletedUser363

Guest
I'm not wasting my time testing it, I tried every tournament since the Battle design was first changed and it was a complete waste of my time and effort, couldn't win a single tournament on auto or manual...not willing to waste more time just getting my troops massacred, might as well use the supplies for extra goods than training.
 

Deleted User - 13667

Guest
I still win tournament battles easy. A little practice will do the trick. Losses are now significantly much higher as compared to the older system. Likely you cannot go past a certain number of provinces since the advantage of the AI will yet again show up.

However, it is no better compared to the older system. In fact it is worse. And yes, I do believe there is a "greater plan at work". Since there are now even more AW and buildings you are forced to build for more units or some miserable reduction of advantage.

There is no unit that a player now commands that has first strike. The AI archers has it now. Given the advantage they have in terms of units and groups, you go to a battle with 3 vs 8 now.

Light melee units are no longer meat shields. You lose range & elite units faster than ever.

The heavy range units cannot deal enough damage(up to 200 a unit max) to take out an orc(about 500hp each).

The only advantage you ever had apart from the first strike were the near invincible sorceress who now cower in front of melee & range units alike. It might well be called a downgrade not elite.:(:(:(:(

No doubt here at the forums there would be some sympathizer to the programmers saying it is "so negative" , "unfair", "wailing" etc. :rolleyes:This is the only place you can feedback and gather some kind of consensus from players experiencing this. Hitting out at the weakest link does not mean lashing complaints or just being negative. How much feedback to actually improve the game came to heed?

Already I have pointed out the programmers will follow their own schedule. As to whether feedback gathered from players here and beta would be taken note shows for itself over the past 2 years.

You want to claim its balanced? You should bring forth some solid feedback on areas that actually are "balanced" o_O
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser1519

Guest
Few words about battle system from general point of view.
Our battle system is combination of pentagram system
index.php


and pentagon system
index.php


I don't think, that ancient chines people were fool. So, about chines pentagram
index.php


Please, attention on red arrows.
Or variant in russian
index.php


here blue arrows are representing killing actions.
Pentagram is sacral sign, sense of which is connecting with life and death. Pentagon isn't.
Opponent elements are placed on different sides of pentagram.
So, our battle system
index.php


must be based on pentagram with rule
"LONGER ARROW - HARDER STRIKE".
But now we have approximately next
index.php


so system of battle is disbalanced(((
Our heavy melee units have not enough bonuses against light melee units(((
So enemy with light melee units is very hard for us.

Our heavy melee units must have much stronger bonuses against light melee units!!!
 

DeletedUser2685

Guest
I hope the design team actually reads these posts, because I have not seen improvement, in fact for me it has gotten even worse.

The biggest problem with the battle system is that it is weighted most unfairly against the new player and the well established player. Not having access to all of the 5 types makes it difficult to win and I am sure drives some people away. As a player who has reached the most recent part of the tech tree, I have no chance at winning a battle in the provinces. I can survive with a couple of units if we are even in number or they are just a little above in number of troops. However, I am at the point where in some locations they have twice the size. Expansion has ground to a halt as so has the fun of that part. I really like the tournaments, but they have become unnecessarily harder. Despite having maxed everything out, I can only win one out of ten fights at the 5 star level, let alone the 6 star level. And do not talk to me about the autofight feature. I play to challenge myself not to watch the game play itself.

You guys need to really get this system straightened out -- I know for certain you are losing people because of it.
 

DeletedUser219

Guest
I have been winning battles at 1:1.5, if you can't win at even, you are doing something wrong.
 

DeletedUser2054

Guest
I can't remember the last time I had a battle that was even or 1:1.5 lmao
 

DeletedUser2685

Guest
I have been winning battles at 1:1.5, if you can't win at even, you are doing something wrong.

You must not have been playing very long. I use to beat up on everyone when I was lower down the tech tree (and before the awful redesign). Now that I am near the end of the tech tree with over 300 provinces defeated, the story is different. It is a little hard to win when before you even get to go the enemy shoots down 800 of my 1200 troops from one squad (with ONE shot). If it were a matter of strategy, I would agree. The problem is that where I am at, the enemy does minimum 1/2 damage to an enemy type it has disadvantage to. Meanwhile, I am lucky if I do 1/5 when I have a favorable match up. With the game odds stacked that badly against you, the majority of the time it really does not matter how good a tactician you are . . . .
 

DeletedUser1829

Guest
Now that I am near the end of the tech tree with over 300 provinces defeated, the story is different.

The sad thing is it is designed that you are not meant to win, if you are winning any at all you are doing well. The expected provinces to get into wood elves is around 200 provinces so one could guess 230-240 by the end of wood elves. Due to the redesign you need at least 1 maybe 2 new chapters and without scouting before you come into the "Goldilocks Zone". Obviously many in this situation are feeling very frustrated.
 

DeletedUser2685

Guest
The sad thing is it is designed that you are not meant to win, if you are winning any at all you are doing well. The expected provinces to get into wood elves is around 200 provinces so one could guess 230-240 by the end of wood elves. Due to the redesign you need at least 1 maybe 2 new chapters and without scouting before you come into the "Goldilocks Zone". Obviously many in this situation are feeling very frustrated.
Thanks for the information Mykan
 

Aisling1

Conjurer
I hope the design team actually reads these posts, because I have not seen improvement, in fact for me it has gotten even worse.

The biggest problem with the battle system is that it is weighted most unfairly against the new player and the well established player. Not having access to all of the 5 types makes it difficult to win and I am sure drives some people away. As a player who has reached the most recent part of the tech tree, I have no chance at winning a battle in the provinces. I can survive with a couple of units if we are even in number or they are just a little above in number of troops. However, I am at the point where in some locations they have twice the size. Expansion has ground to a halt as so has the fun of that part. I really like the tournaments, but they have become unnecessarily harder. Despite having maxed everything out, I can only win one out of ten fights at the 5 star level, let alone the 6 star level. And do not talk to me about the autofight feature. I play to challenge myself not to watch the game play itself.

You guys need to really get this system straightened out -- I know for certain you are losing people because of it.
 

Aisling1

Conjurer
I really agree. Since I started playing in August there has been no incentive for me to fight. I lost autofights, where I was more than evenly matched or even better than the opposition. So I tried manual, and won some but lost most.
Due to expansion I am never anything like evenly matched and on the one or two occasions when I have had to fight(I stupidly accepted a quest to win three relics and win three encounters... that only took 19 attempts and 5 weeks to complete and the kind of losses that would have made buying each encounter entirely with diamonds cheap) - I am so seriously outnumbered there is no point.

Across two worlds and 4 fellowships I know no one who fights, and more than a few who have given up. My armouries are for upgrading and selling, and quests (train 300 units) - my barracks for show. I feel about these the way some people do about Magic Academy. I would sell it if I could and really resent the Ancient Wonders and Rune Shards that go with it.

It leaves a hole in the game but one I do not have the resources or energy to relearn. I tried. I opened an account in Aryndell to focus on fighting, and only fighting and quickly gave up. It's not lack of interest or ability... it's just too heavily weighted against winning. I would like to play the game with both... where judicious use of troops could save resources... but it's just not working for me... or anyone I know. We've all given up and focussed on trading and developing fellowships, interaction between fellowships and even movement among fellowships... "the travelling mages".
..I do hope the developers read this and buck up their game!
 

DeletedUser1829

Guest
The lack of information in game to help players understand the difficulty of fights is a real issue. If players knew that certain fights are highly difficult to impossible it would alter their approach and they could make informed choices about combat or negotiation.
 
Top