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Battle

DeletedUser2018

Guest
The new battle system can get pretty confusing in my opinion. How do you get past such and such encounter? Sometimes at first glance, you look at your enemies strengths and it feels like you can't beat it. And then, you're tempted by the "negotiate" button.

So I thought maybe we could share screenshots of our encounters and give each other ideas, tips and tricks to beat them efficiently with a lesser loss.
 

DeletedUser2571

Guest
The new battle system isnt different from what is was.
Troop types have had a rebalance. Some are stronger vs other types then they used to be.

Its quit straightforeward imho:
- light melee is strong vs light range & magic
- light range is strong vs magic & heavy melee
- magic is strong vs heavy melee & heavy range
- heavy melee is strong vs heavy range & light melee
- heavy range is strong vs light melee & light range

The biggset issue is the quality and quantity of the troops you meet in a province. For a lot of people, fights have become three times as hard as they used to be.
 

DeletedUser2018

Guest
I pretty well know that. But sometimes, it seems it's all too perfect. I keep looking for a flaw and I can't seem to find one.
 

DeletedUser219

Guest
You might be interested in this player-built analysis of the new system, which includes combinations for most Province types: FaceBook Page
 

DeletedUser1055

Guest
3 times as hard? Try 10 times as hard.... The enemy squads seem harder than my own (defensively and offensively) and they have bigger squads and more units. This is a really poor change to the playing experience imo. I used to like the balance because if you got the strategy wrong, you lost. Now, i havent won one in the 5 encounters i've tried and have to wait longer to fill my squads back up. I hope something changes soon. I'm really tempted to sell my 5 armories and build goods production instead.
 

DeletedUser2437

Guest
Was trying it for a bit today, Dogs can no longer eat their own weight in archers. Axemen cannot chop their weight in Orcs. Regardless of whether or not squad sizes are broken, squads are too weak against their intended targets to be useful. Victory would now require a vast numerical advantage to achieve and that is further from possibility now then ever before.
 

DeletedUser1829

Guest
The specialty shown in the combat pentagon is not always attack and defense bonuses. Cerberus for example have an attack benefit over archers but no defense bonus (like they use to).

Each province has 3 unit types and usually one of your units will be specialised against 2 of the 3 and weak to the third. Your support options to kill the third usually have a drawback for you to consider. Sometimes you have to bring a support unit and kamikaze them.
 
Killiak

Killiak

Artisan
Mykan said:
The specialty shown in the combat pentagon is not always attack and defense bonuses. Cerberus for example have an attack benefit over archers but no defense bonus (like they use to).

Each province has 3 unit types and usually one of your units will be specialised against 2 of the 3 and weak to the third. Your support options to kill the third usually have a drawback for you to consider. Sometimes you have to bring a support unit and kamikaze them.
Click to expand...

In short you are saying you will always lose a lot more troops than you used to, and because of initiative orders you'd better be ready to lose a lot.
Assuming you are in your "intended" ring anyway, because we have to play like Inno demands us to.
 

DeletedUser219

Guest
The update to 1.16 should give Elves access to Cerberus, Humans access to the Mortar (Cannoneer), and Drone Riders and Blossom Mages for all. I for one will not be trying to analyse the new system until those units are available.

Edit: to change version. I'm getting ahead of myself.
 
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Kiltqueen

Kiltqueen

Bard
I have a squad size of 204 and researching Squad size Upgrade 12 at the moment. a Steinling wiped out an entire squad of Swords in one hit. how is this fair? Before they were a fairly even match and I could nearly always kill Steinlings with Swords. Swamp Monsters and the new witch Enchantress are impossible to fight. There is just no point. War Dogs are no longer vulnerable to Trents and Swords or anything. I understand that upgrades are still going on, but releasing this one, and leaving a gap to the next one is just not right. It takes long enough to build a squad, and to be wiped out at every single match isn't fun. I don't mind a challenge, and battles were always difficult. But this is nonsense. Elvenar will lose players, me included. If they can't make the battles fair, at least make negotiating a lot more affordable.

I had to add...I've just followed the guidance on this thread above on what units are best used in battle. And I've just won 4 battles in a row. Now I probably got lucky...I don't know. But that really shocked me...and gave me hope that perhaps all is not lost!! Hang in there everyone!
 
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Kiltqueen

Kiltqueen

Bard
BP101 said:
The new battle system isnt different from what is was.
Troop types have had a rebalance. Some are stronger vs other types then they used to be.

Its quit straightforeward imho:
- light melee is strong vs light range & magic
- light range is strong vs magic & heavy melee
- magic is strong vs heavy melee & heavy range
- heavy melee is strong vs heavy range & light melee
- heavy range is strong vs light melee & light range

The biggset issue is the quality and quantity of the troops you meet in a province. For a lot of people, fights have become three times as hard as they used to be.
Click to expand...
I can't believe it....I've just won 4 battles with this guidance. I can't thank you enough!
 
Valnad

Valnad

Spellcaster
I will try to leave my criticism in the update feedback thread and focus on the intentions of this thread with this post:
  • I used to fight in the old system and did fairly well. Once I unlocked Sorc III and Granite Golems, it pretty much put an end to the strategic part of the fighting since a combination of those could take on 75-80% of the enemy zones and the rest could be negotiated away as they were either a) too time consuming or b) resulted in too many losses, so negotiating felt like the better option.

  • In the new system I have so far only done a few tests this weekend, but nothing has worked for me so far.

  • I lose battles even when I have a superior troop balance and the upper hand in troop strengths vs weaknesses.

  • I have 267 provinces unlocked and I'm close to the end of the Orc chapter, but I still have Squad size 26 and 27 left to unlock. I'm putting both on hold, since they are of no use to me now that fighting is impossible.

  • Cerberus dogs will not address the problem with this new system, nor will the last two squad size techs. Troops will either have to become much cheaper to produce in order to offset the enormous losses we're being forced to accept, or unit types will require plenty more upgrades spanning across the current tech tree.

  • Negotiating is so much cheaper compared to fighting right now that I fear Inno will nerf that too.

  • Once the scout times go beyond 2 days (ring 12 or so) it doesn't really pay off to focus on fighting anyway. The barracks building takes up lots of space, not to mention the extra supply factories, armouries and all of the extra housing required in order to upholding a sizeable army and replenish battle losses. If you use all of that space to produce the goods needed to negotiate (and keep 1-2 armories for the orcs) you will have plenty of time to produce what is needed in less time than the scouts need to get back from their missions.
I will not likely build the Mercenary camp, but rather wait to hear the feedback from others who are more daring than I. Besides, I lack the space needed for it anyway.
 

DeletedUser1829

Guest
For the beginner in era 1 (as an Elve, haven't tried humans) I have found auto fighting is still an option. It is far less effective then manual fighting (of course even without the current AI issue). It was curious that one of my provinces seemed to jump in squad size but most were the same size so fights were achievable.

I am struggling to work out how best to counter mages as an elve. Archers with high initiative get targeted first and swords have to run down the mage. Often these are in fights with enemies specialized against these troops assist the mage. If anyone has a strategy to minimise the losses for these encounters it would be good to hear? For now in the fights I select I often plan on a kamikaze archer or sword if only 1 or 2 mage squads and try to eliminate/significantly weaken the enemy so other troops can finish them off. I have also occasionally used Bud Sorceress to help my specialists close in on the mages but it distracts my sorc from other possible targets.
 

DeletedUser219

Guest
I, too, used the old system well. As a Human, my winning combination was Paladin/Priest. Being in the Orc Chapter, I clearing provinces comfortably and keeping my Scouts running (day and a half) until the First stage was released on Beta. What was revealed then meant that I stopped Scouting. I had about 8 Provinces to complete, and I hoped to get them done before the battles got out of hand with the live release. I ran out of time with 4-5 Provinces left to go.

I can't even try to fight them without a Heavy Ranged unit (Mortar due out in 1.16), and would prefer to have the Fairy units as well (also due in 1.16). Given that the tough battles are locked in due to the Provinces having already been Scouted, I may have to resign myself to Negotiating these while unlocking the Woodelves Advanced Scouts. With 251 Provinces complete I may be too far ahead to analyse the system properly through the next Chapter, but I will be trying.

At the moment I am building up my regular ttroops so that when the Mortar, Drone Rider, and Blossom Mage come out I can concentrate on producing them.

@Mykan You will be getting access to Cerberus next update, and enemy Sorceresses are due a bit of a nerf, so you may find possibilities there.

TL;DR version: Strategy: stop fighting for now and wait for complete rollout.

Edit: Sorry next version out is 1.16
 
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DeletedUser1353

Guest
So, as a human it might be a good idea to stock up on cerberuses before the update so I dont have to worry about building the new building for a while?

Valnad said:
Once the scout times go beyond 2 days (ring 12 or so) it doesn't really pay off to focus on fighting anyway. The barracks building takes up lots of space, not to mention the extra supply factories, armouries and all of the extra housing required in order to upholding a sizeable army and replenish battle losses. If you use all of that space to produce the goods needed to negotiate (and keep 1-2 armories for the orcs) you will have plenty of time to produce what is needed in less time than the scouts need to get back from their missions.
Click to expand...
Dont forget about tournaments, that's where the majority of fighting takes place for me, before and after the update. For this the barracks are totally worth it for me.
 
Kiltqueen

Kiltqueen

Bard
So far I've worked out that...
Anient Orc can be beaten by Trent & Golem
Knights can be beaten by Golem & Enchantress
Swamp Monsters can be beaten by Scorcerous and Trent
Thief can be beaten by Golem & Trent

I'm having a hard time with War Dogs 2 and Steinling...any takers on these as Heavy Melee & Heavy Range aren't cutting it...i.e. Golem & Trent
 

DeletedUser1104

Guest
Tikococo said:
It's a shame that the intention of his thread has been ignored, and comments more suited for the Battle Redesign thread have been posted here.
:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I think what people are saying is, there is no way to beat them...I just had all my squads wiped out in first blow from them, and even when I get more 'squad size upgrades' they'll have more, so really no point in trying...bad move by inno
 
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