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AW donations

Pauly7

Shaman
KP swapping threads are not a secret. Even if only half the FS members participate in KP swapping you are making it outrageously expensive for non-FS players to "steal" prizes. In our FS I have never seen an AW that had less than 6-7 members contribute at least 40KP. A proper KP swapping management prevents non-FS players from getting prizes and explicitly makes sure that AW chests stay in the FS. Without proper KP swapping this will not work. It is as simple as that.
This is how I see it. With our active swap threads no one on the outside would donate unless they're willing to donate more than the prize they can win.

That all said we've gone round in circles and this thread is going nowhere. What I would say in summary, though, is if someone from a FS has explicitly asked someone not to contribute to their wonders then they should stop. To then cause anger by continuing seems needlessly inflammatory to me. In that situation move onto somewhere else. If someone washes my car and I asked them not to do that again I would be angry if they did... and for those on the receiving end - set up a proper KP swapping system and you will not be in the position.
 

CrazyWizard

Soothsayer
You mention true sportsmanship, well what's happening here is not true sportsmanship. The Wolf Pack keep lists and have seekers who search for vulnerable fellowships and quickly inform the pack to pounce on them thereby depriving them of any rewards. This is dirty play and not sportsman-like at all. It's like the vile fox hunters out there, no regard for any others' feelings as long as they get their disgusting gratification.
You cal them "vile" hunters, but don't forget that it takes a lot of time to hunt.
It takes hours and hours and hours to build up lists of potential targets, to monitor and maintain them.
We are talking about weeks of time, it's not that they are getting them for free (I havent yet seen anyone building an automated crawler for it like on FoE, so it's all hand work.)

When I started doing this I got many thanks from many players, these days they are so used to it so those mails stopped.
I also recieved many manya many KP from players I donated KP at there wonders as a thanks.

So in general you could say that people like it.
There is also a lovely battle between the packs about who hunts what first, which in many cases results in players recieving even more KP, afraid that the other will grab it first benefitting those players.

Off course there are a few that hate it for whatever reason we can't fathom and thats fine. the response from hunters is then simple please start using a wondermal/train/KPswap or whatever you like to call it and your problem is solved. no hunters/no pray no packs and no drama.
Because if group A doesn't hunt for it that group B does or group C ect.

This is the only reason we can fill our wonders in a legal way without cheating like pushing.
And unlike pushing it ain't free, it comes at a huge cost of time. So I think those that hunt instead of pushing deserve those KP.
 

Paladestar

Spellcaster
I havent yet seen anyone building an automated crawler for it like on FoE, so it's all hand work.
I have. One I'm certain about on EN2. One I'm suspicious of on EN3. The EN2 one that I'm 100% sure about, I've reported four or five times over the last few months, but they're still at it, as recently as yesterday in fact. Just like push accounts, the powers that be just ignore their own rules. :confused:
 

CrazyWizard

Soothsayer
I have. One I'm certain about on EN2. One I'm suspicious of on EN3. The EN2 one that I'm 100% sure about, I've reported four or five times over the last few months, but they're still at it, as recently as yesterday in fact. Just like push accounts, the powers that be just ignore their own rules. :confused:
I pretty much play on the dutch server and havent found one there "yet"
I wonder how you get suspicious about it, because it could be a player who workt there ass of, the only reason you can be sure about a crowler is if there are no longer wonders aviable to hunt. thats pretty much the definition of a crawler. they find not a lot, but they find everything.
Being active in a lot of wonders is not enough to be suspicious about a automated crawler.

I myself work with excel sheerts that calculate and autofill a lot of information for me based on a few parameters that I enter.
I then use a search pattern based on those calculations to estimate the time on when those wonder will fill up.
This way I can reduce my time spend on searching for wonders by a lot, but it still takes at least 2 hours a day of manually checking, if prediction is correct fill up the wonder with my guild mates and correct the parameters.

And this is the time spend on not searching for new potential targets, but just maintaining the list of high potential users where in general I donated over and over a certain amount on KP time after time.
 

Paladestar

Spellcaster
I wonder how you get suspicious about it, because it could be a player who workt there ass of, the only reason you can be sure about a crowler is if there are no longer wonders aviable to hunt. thats pretty much the definition of a crawler. they find not a lot, but they find everything.
Being active in a lot of wonders is not enough to be suspicious about a automated crawler.
When this player is actively running their bot, they're literally everywhere and it's like every target on the hunting lists of my fellows and I are taken by it. The bot has predictable behavior. When active it shows up within 15 minutes of a wonder being in range where their donation can finish it. It uses poor logic, e.g. if a wonder is empty of donors and top chest rewards 40 KP and the wonder needs 38 KP to finish. This 'player' adds 38 KP, whereas anyone with a brain would add 20 to ensure the top chest is theirs and wait for others to finish it or the owner. We've successfully baited it numerous times as a test. This player is ranked around 10,800ish, has a city that barely changes and is titled "MH only" (aka push city, give me coins so I can buy KPs for my other city), they're clearly funnelling the KP to a city on their main account and trying to keep their bot separate in case they ever get caught.
 

Julian

Bard
Questionable activity. But at the end of the day, you've just benefited by 38kp, and they've only gained 2. You win more than they do.
 

QuercusFol

Seeker
How do you buy kp in one city with coins from another city? I knew that diamonds were shared but coins aren't (unless I've missed something).
 

tesla333

Enchanter
How do you buy kp in one city with coins from another city? I knew that diamonds were shared but coins aren't (unless I've missed something).
Buy KP in City "Pushville". Visit your (own) City "Getville". Donate KP from Pushville into AW in Getville.
(this of course means you need two accounts under different e-mail addresses)
 

Lelanya

Artisan
Folks I have seen some pretty callous behaviour on this thread. It saddens me to see players I once respected treat others so rudely.

We are playing a game, that is meant to be relaxing. Some here have made it plain that others' actions are causing them distress. I hear tell of this through various means, and have tried to champion those who are relaxed players and cannot, for various reasons maintain active forms of swapping.

PREY: To hunt and kill for food. Think about it. There is no place for killing other players in Elvenar.
 

Alcaro

Spellcaster
oh, let it be, Lelanya. Nobody is killing anyone. If they can't get a decent activity in their FS and use swap threads, why are they blaming other players for using the opportunity to get some KPs as rewards?
In one FS we use the normal Swap threads, in the other we use Wonder Society system and never - I mean NEVER - any of us was targeted by hunters. This, because we are all active and when the Wonders have already 6-8 contributors from ur own FS, hunters aren't interested anymore.
Another point on this matter - in one of these FS we have a little scout who is spending lot of time looking for AWs filled only by the owners and let us know. We go and contribute with decent amounts of KPs. We never received any complain for doing it so. In fact, we noticed some "preys" for waiting for us to come to complete their AWs.

P.S. I wish we had more posibilities to react on comments beside the classical Like. I want one that laughs his butt off and a Thumb down too, but for this thread in particular, I would liked to have the ROFL.
 

randblade

Scholar
Folks I have seen some pretty callous behaviour on this thread. It saddens me to see players I once respected treat others so rudely.

We are playing a game, that is meant to be relaxing. Some here have made it plain that others' actions are causing them distress. I hear tell of this through various means, and have tried to champion those who are relaxed players and cannot, for various reasons maintain active forms of swapping.

PREY: To hunt and kill for food. Think about it. There is no place for killing other players in Elvenar.
Who's being killed?

Anyone who is being GIVEN kp is being helped - and they're being helped because their own Fellowship hasn't helped them enough to secure the chests so why see them go to waste?

Nothing is taken from anyone and any recipient of KP is being gifted KP with no swap and no return not being killed.
 

Paladestar

Spellcaster
Questionable activity. But at the end of the day, you've just benefited by 38kp, and they've only gained 2. You win more than they do.
You misunderstand. :)

Say a random player (not me, any fellow, or anyone I otherwise know) has their wonder on 582/620 complete.
Say the 7 reward chests are (KP):

40
30
20
15
10
5
5

Now also say there's no existing donors in the AW, all chests are up for grabs. Mr McCheatBot comes along and adds 38KP:

620/620 - wonder complete!

40 - Mr McCheatBot (added 38) +2 profit
30 - nobody
20 - nobody
15 - nobody
10 - nobody
5 - nobody
5 - nobody

Mr McCheatBot made a pitiful 2KP profit and made 6 chests go to waste.

Now if a fellow or I found it, we'd share out the chests to complete the wonder, something like:

620/620 - wonder complete!

40 - Player 1 (added 10) +30 profit
30 - Player 2 (10) +20
20 - Player 3 (10) +10
15 - Player 4 (5) +10
10 - Player 5 (1) +9
5 - Player 6 (1) +4
5 - Player 7 (1) +4

Random guy still gets his free 38KP, but 7 players putting in effort share 87KP profit, instead of one cheater making 2KP profit.
 

randblade

Scholar
You misunderstand. :)

Say a random player (not me, any fellow, or anyone I otherwise know) has their wonder on 582/620 complete.
Say the 7 reward chests are (KP):

40
30
20
15
10
5
5

Now also say there's no existing donors in the AW, all chests are up for grabs. Mr McCheatBot comes along and adds 38KP:

620/620 - wonder complete!

40 - Mr McCheatBot (added 38) +2 profit
30 - nobody
20 - nobody
15 - nobody
10 - nobody
5 - nobody
5 - nobody

Mr McCheatBot made a pitiful 2KP profit and made 6 chests go to waste.

Now if a fellow or I found it, we'd share out the chests to complete the wonder, something like:

620/620 - wonder complete!

40 - Player 1 (added 10) +30 profit
30 - Player 2 (10) +20
20 - Player 3 (10) +10
15 - Player 4 (5) +10
10 - Player 5 (1) +9
5 - Player 6 (1) +4
5 - Player 7 (1) +4

Random guy still gets his free 38KP, but 7 players putting in effort share 87KP profit, instead of one cheater making 2KP profit.
You're thinking like part of a team. But if everyone acted as part of a team there'd be nothing to hunt in the first place. Just because it's illogical doesn't mean some human isn't doing it.
 

Pauly7

Shaman
You're thinking like part of a team. But if everyone acted as part of a team there'd be nothing to hunt in the first place. Just because it's illogical doesn't mean some human isn't doing it.
This.

If Fellowships want to be all "team-like" and share out the KP rewards between themselves then run swap threads. There are perhaps people here that don't understand them - you all post messages into threads letting everyone know your AW to donate to next - and then you donate to the previous person. The aim of the game is - don't ever donate to your own Wonders. By the end of the process in the above example of a 620KP Wonder you are going to see something like the following:

Fellow A: 120KP donated
Fellow B: 100KP donated
Fellow C: 85KP donated
Fellow D: 75KP donated
Fellow E: 50KP donated
Fellow F: 45KP donated

Yes the numbers are all more than the rewards, but that doesn't matter because all rewards from all AWs in the FS are taken by members (hopefully a fairly even spread between you) and you will each spend the number of KP it took to upgrade your wonder in the first place + miscellaneous rewards.

Maybe you're all going to say: Yes, yes, we know exactly what an AW swap thread is, (BTW I know there are several different ways to do it), but if that's the case then I really don't understand why this argument rages on and why Fellowships aren't shutting out "hunters" (I only even knew that was an Elvenar term since this thread began.

As I said before outside donators should back off if they're asked to, but the problem shouldn't arise.

I told myself I wasn't going to post again on this thread a couple of days ago, but I've done it again... I'm definitely out now.
 

UlyssesBlue

Conjurer
Just a tip: if you really don't want 'hunters' giving you KP, but you're not able to run any sort of KP swap thread, an easier alternative that is still effective is to wait until you've got about 100KP left on your wonder, then post in the fellowship chat saying that wonder is close to upgrading and has chests available. Your fellows will then grab them before any so-called 'hunter' gets them, and any 'hunters' who subsequently come looking won't find anything worth grabbing.

The result is you and your fellows get lots of the prizes, you no longer get given KP from people you don't like, and it requires very little effort on the part of yourself or your fellows.
 

apophis73

Seeker
Just a tip: if you really don't want 'hunters' giving you KP, but you're not able to run any sort of KP swap thread, an easier alternative that is still effective is to wait until you've got about 100KP left on your wonder, then post in the fellowship chat saying that wonder is close to upgrading and has chests available. Your fellows will then grab them before any so-called 'hunter' gets them, and any 'hunters' who subsequently come looking won't find anything worth grabbing.

The result is you and your fellows get lots of the prizes, you no longer get given KP from people you don't like, and it requires very little effort on the part of yourself or your fellows.
spot on! as one of the bigger players on arendyll ive had push accounts fill my aw and take the rewards. now i do what you suggest. i have people who i exchange kp with on a regular basis,set amounts. we stop when im 200 kp short of finishing and i wait until i have enough instants to complete the upgrade. if there is any chests left to be claimed i tell my fellows in fs chat and once the chests are taken i fill the rest up with the instants
 

Vetrinus

Enchanter
The result is you and your fellows get lots of the prizes, you no longer get given KP from people you don't like, and it requires very little effort on the part of yourself or your fellows.
It also fills you with a decent amount of Schadenfreude which is always good.
 

apophis73

Seeker
@FieryArien i sincerely appreciate that you are discussing only the issue without abusing people. And yes I understand their mentality perhaps : losing something against their will. And even in other sports like football losing team is less enthusiastic than the winner.
And since we are interested in solutions than people abusing, I would suggest raising a ticket to Inno.
if Inno declares, similar to their take on pushing, some legal take on hunting for kp and runes, then that becomes binding. Unless that’s done, I don’t see any way to stop people doing what’s part of the game/designed by Inno.
you think inno take any action on the blatant push accounts!? never have,never will, so this wont be any different im afraid